Has The Defense Changed Your Mind About ICA's Guilt?

[katydid23]

Maybe Cindy did not know, or mybe if CA did tell her she didnt believe her. We just dont know the facts and without knowing them all I tend tyo at least give the benefit of doubt to the one claiming to be abused and I would hope others would also.

What about giving the benefit of doubt to Caylee? If Lee and George were so abusive why was Caylee left overnight in their care?

Why would she choose to leave her child to be changed, bathed and potty trained by her abuser?

I call BS on her abuse story and I am an abuse victim myself.

I DETEST people who make false accusations---it makes real claims look false.
I hate it when people try and blame their own crimes on being abuse victims.

My kids are both alive---I called 911 when my son broke his arm as a toddler. I didn't ignore it and go get a new tattoo.

 

[Rallihanna]

The problem in my mind is this - at any point she could have stated this. She didn't until today. Her tears today weren't about Caylee... they were about her. One last pathetic lie.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

The defense has not changed my mind, however, my mom who doesn't know anything about this case listened to the defence and said I dont think she is guilty, I think the baby drowned. Because I have followed the case and know how JB is I dont buy it, but it concerns me that someone who hasn't followed it could beleive it, because the jury might buy it, all they need is one to buy it.

I watched with 2 co-workers who don't know much about the case, just the basics of it and they both asked the same two things...why would George cover up an accident and why would ICA sit in jail for 3 years if it was an accident? One even said..."But if her father sexually abused her, wouldn't telling the police what happened and getting him sent to jail be the best revenge?"

 

[atthelake]

Isn't it kinda late for JB to refute the science when he's already admitted in a court of law that KC was present when Caylee died? If the accident theory doesn't fly I don't think he gets a do over.

He indeed has painted himself in a corner has he not! If was accident, why dispute stuff!!!

 

[roseofsharon]

Maybe Cindy did not know, or mybe if CA did tell her she didnt believe her. We just dont know the facts and without knowing them all I tend tyo at least give the benefit of doubt to the one claiming to be abused and I would hope others would also.

With all due respect, I will not give KC the benefit of any doubt on any point due for many reasons too extensive to list, but well documented on the WS threads. IMO

 

[poco]

They just showed Casey telling her parents via telephone from jail what great parents that they have been and how happy she is to have had them as her parents and how lucky Caylee was to have them in her SHORT life.

Also....... is there a reason you would place duct tape over someone's mouth AFTER they have drowned?????

And what the heck, while we're at it, let's add a few sticker hearts.

 

[MaryB]

I think the defense has just sunk their own ship. I think the jury could have believed an accident, but when they introduced sex abuse, ding dong in mouth, you will go to jail for freaking forever, and Kronk hiding the remains for months they screwed themselves.

It's so crazy that I started laughing (not disrespect to Caylee) It's so absurd and I was so happy that JB nailed the last nail into ICA's coffin. Thank you JB! I was scared he was going with the accident defense and she tried to cover it up. Thanks again, JB!

 

[annmarie62]

WHEW! What a day! To answer this thread's question: NO!! The defense did not change my mind... yet, as much as I've read/obsessed about this case, it was still shocking to hear JB's opening statement, especially his graphic "sexual imagery," ugh. I can't imagine how GA was able to remain in his seat after hearing that; I felt so badly for him. I feel the seeds of this "defense" began when ICA saw her first psychologist while incarcerated. When a young, obviously disturbed female is questioned by a mental health professional, the question inadvertently comes up of sexual abuse. Certainly ICA's defense team first hinted at and then hammered at the idea that "Hey, this is a way- alleging abuse- of keeping you alive. You MUST come up with some detailed memories of sexual abuse, hint hint!!" Remember those absurd letters ICA wrote to fellow inmates (her new "besties," puke) in which she said her dad and Lee both abused her? I believe it was then that her mental "wheels" were spinning- and being spun- re. this "excuse." While I have to say that JB did a good job in his quest to become the next Johnny Cochran, as many others have pointed out, there are HUGE holes in his defense. I still don't know why Ray Kronk was such a huge part of this opening statement; I was totally confused!! Even IF all the carp said about Kronk were true, so what?? HE didn't kill Caylee. Why spend so much time on this red herring? Distract/obfuscate/spin/confuse/disgust seems to be JB's strategy, and it is already wearing mighty thin.

 

[tfrohning]

I can see all that as well. As for the computer search, I didn't say what I wanted to say very well lol. I meant Casey did the searches and was looking for ways to off GA only, not Cindy.

I disagree with your post...kind of! I think she wanted to off both of them!

 

[yolorado]

I watched with 2 co-workers who don't know much about the case, just the basics of it and they both asked the same two things...why would George cover up an accident and why would ICA sit in jail for 3 years if it was an accident? One even said..."But if her father sexually abused her, wouldn't telling the police what happened and getting him sent to jail be the best revenge?"

And why would a lawyer interested in justice and protection for his client let her sit in jail for 3 years while her co-conspirator goes free, especially since he is an alleged child molester and could potentially harm other children? Makes no sense.

 

[GennyMac]

Kind of OT, but it's been brewing in my mind for a few days.

What chaps my butt is usually when a woman murders someone, there's a claim of abuse. Either sexual, physical, or emotional. Sometimes all three, with a dash of depression.

When a man murders someone, he's just a run of the mill sociopath. No one suggests he should garner sympathy or that his punishment shoudl be mitigated because uncle Bob touched his pp, or his parents verbally abused him.

As a woman, I'm pretty damned tired of women falling back on what I see as the "weaker sex" defense. I really wish women weren't treated like delicate abused creatures when they blow a hole through someone's head or kill their children.

AAAAAAmen AMEN AMEN AMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNN

Sorry but I so solidly agree with this..............

 

[poco]

And why would a lawyer interested in justice and protection for his client let her sit in jail for 3 years while her co-conspirator goes free, especially since he is an alleged child molester and could potentially harm other children? Makes no sense.

HAHAHAHA, love it!! GREAT POINT!!!!!

 

[DaughterAlice]

It's a good point, however. I don't think (even based upon the preponderance of the evidence given what has been presented so far) that GA assaulted ICA, although the two points I cried during this whole case was when JB made that allegation (the one in explicit detail) and when he stated that Caylee drowned in the pool on the 16th, both today.

However, GA would most likely deny that he sexually assaulted his daughter. The fact that he did not plead the fifth, give an obvious weak denial or contrived weak answer to assist the defense shows that this was not a ruse on the part of the defense and GA and Cindy. So it is a reasonable possibility that is a lot more convincing than the Zanny story. It would explain her lying tendencies (AFAIK).

Before the trial I always thought that an "aha" moment would be that Caylee was a product of rape (although not from LA/GA), although, that would not work in this case since we would know about it from evidence and/or testimony released from the depositions and/or defense discoveries.

The GA sexual assault does make some sense (although still leaves a lot unexplained).

But turning back to the posters original comment. How do we know that she is lying?

You nailed it, thank you. Yes, it does indeed leave a LOT unexplained. Does it excuse her actions? To my mind, NO. However, there does remain the possibility that she truly was abused.

 

[atthelake]

Jose, darling, you misread my posts. I know I said you should argue that Caylee drowned in the pool and that Casey, because she was sexually and emotionally abused and therefore a little whacko in the head, lied and partied and generally ugly-coped and covered up the death.

But the whole POINT, Jose, of that defense, was so that you could GAIN credibility points by ADMITTING the dog evidence, the hair, the decomp, the dumping of Caylee's little body on Suburban, etc. You can't deny all that stuff too.

Seriously. You never listen to me. :banghead:

Great post:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Looking forward to our next radio session! Hopefully it will be soon, was hoping for one tonight, durn!

 

[ZsaZsa]

Since the first moment JB opened his mouth three years ago I have felt nothing but contempt for him. He lies without conscience and there is plenty of evidence of that. Today was just another example - the worst example so far - of the extent of his corruption.
I thought the story he offered was laughable. About as sophisticated as a teenager with a vivid imagination trying to avoid punishment.. Anyone who has studied this case and knows the course of events, the evidence we have seen, knows what happened. The Jury will soon know the truth.

 

[Cappy]

The problem in my mind is this - at any point she could have stated this. She didn't until today. Her tears today weren't about Caylee... they were about her. One last pathetic lie.

That's right. She could have told the police from the get-go that she found her Father holding her dead child. That would have turned this investigation in a whole new direction.

This girl is a killer. But...she may get away from a death penalty when if these lawyers can scam a juror or two with a hung jury or a lesser penalty.

I've seen that happen more than once and it's heartbreaking.

 

[Marple]

I was waffling a bit, thinking that there must have been an accident in the pool. It was the only scenario that made sense to me because HOW could a mother intentionally put duct tape on her baby and kill her?

After hearing how it was laid out today and seeing how many people KC was throwing under the bus, it solidified my belief that it was no accident. It was murder. She cares nothing about her parents, they are disposable. Same as little Caylee.

 

[DaughterAlice]

I think I should post something about why I'm so convinced at the possibility that KC is NOT lying about being sexually abused by GA. Actually, a lot of really good points have been made already, and I'm not going to start repeating them. This is only about my own personal observation.

I skipped around when watching this. I watched a large portion of it on IS, until that ended. When a commercial was on, I would run to my laptop to see it on WFTV.com. Then someone posted that News13 was still playing it live, and I watched the rest of it there. I don't recall which station I was watching when GA was testifying, but I recall that it was a split screen. I could see GA, with sweat glistening on his head, but his face almost completely impassive. I could also see KC.

When JB asked GA if he had ever sexually molested his daughter, he denied it. Really, would we expect him to admit to it, even under oath, even if it were TRUE? Anyway, that's beside the point. When GA stonyface denied it, something instantly broke in KC. I mean BROKE. I swear to you, and yes I'm definately prone to over-exagerations, BUT . . . I swear I watched her soul tear. In that very second . . . . I felt in my heart that it was true.

This doesn't mean she's not a killer (I'm waiting for the jury to decide that one). It doesn't mean she hasn't lied about almost everything in her life. It doesn't mean she's the worst kind of friend, or daughter or mother.

It's totally my opinion. Maybe it's wrong. Maybe I should side with the masses on this one. So many people can't be wrong, can they? I can't shake it though. I know what I saw, and how I felt.

Anyway, there you have it.

 

[Fluffy Puppy]

You know, the abuse thing could be true I am just not buying anything she is selling, but I suppose it could be true. And then I find myself thinking "so what?" HUGE, improbable leap from that to accidental death. I don't get the connection between that possibility and any of the stuff thrown out there today.

no, tonight, I am actually finding myself thinking that ICA is diabolical. I didn't think that before. I just thought she was dumb. But now I am more convinced than ever that she is guilty of 1st degree murder
Baez made it worse, for me.

 

[tsitra01]

It bothers me that ICA is allowed to react by shaking her head no when facts are being stated that have already been backed up with fact. HHJP said he was not going to tolerate any reactions in court. What about her?:banghead: