Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

[feddup]

The dogs hit on several areas in the yard, so if she was newly drowned and not yet emitting the smell of death, why would they alert there....?
The answer is because she didn't drown in their pool.

I thought 2 dogs were brought out, on different days. Both alerted on sme area but.....after they scraped through area the one handler, or maybe both said when brought back, they did not alert on the area again. It was confusing.
It was interesting because before area wastouch BOTH dogs went to same area. I remember the one laid down when he alerted. Guess they are trained differently.
I have watched my GSD's and they use their noses to "find" things. They are awesome. I will hide the ones ball and tell him "find" and he will keep sniffing and going until he finds it. The other likes to go out in my garage with me and we have had a problem with rats out there and I can tell when theyre back, he will go to an area,act excited and doesnt want to come back in the house. The jurors really need to lisen to these dogs.
I only wish the handlers wouldve taped their dogs "find" it is now being discussed by working dog people on certain GSD boards. By people who do SAR, etc.

 

[larryphx]

Sorry but for me the defense lost ALL credibility in the opening statements when Beaz said "George Anthony molested Casey" then we NEVER heard any testimony about it. SO I wonder what else Beaz lies about. Also when Jose said Kronk moved the body and then kept it for 3 months... PLEASE SPARE ME.

 

[wandering]

No, still can't get pass the 31 one days of NOT REPORTING CAYLEE MISSING!!! :loser: All the other is just blah blah blah.. :crazy:

ITA, and if her "drowning" assertion is to be believed, why didn't she tell LE that when they first approached her, instead of sitting in jail for 3 years, and then going through this trial?

 

[RANCH]

I don't think it was said that they tried to revive her though, right? They knew there was no helping her, she was gone. The only thing they did was hide the body and lie, right. Of course all of this drowning scenario, is just a story, so...:crazy:

That's a big problem with JB's "story". Why didn't anyone perform CPR or call Paramedics? No, he has George screaming at Casey and then what? A big BLANK.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm just sitting here wondering what it is that anyone would have doubts about still. What exactly is it that you are doubting?

I don't feel the evidence proves that Casey is the only person who could have done it. I think Casey did it, don't get me wrong. I just don't think the evidence says she and she alone did it.

 

[GeekyGirl]

thank you.

I love your posts, but you're making my head spin. Just the other day we were debating and you compared Casey to Ted Bundy (talking about narcissistic sociopaths). If you believe that about her, why is it so hard to believe that she wouldn't see a drowning as a win-win? Not being snarky, or trying to jump down your throat, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. TIA

 

[OneLostGrl]

Reasonable doubt and illogical confusion are not one in the same. It's called "reasonable" doubt for a reason.

I'm not confused or illogical. Thanks though

 

[froginTtown]

I don't think they have created reasonable doubt.. just a crap load of confusion...!!!!
Which the SA will straighten out tomarrow...
It just will take longer to sort out the lies... a longer deliberation...

 

[Nova24]

They put everyone else on trial and blamed everyone for being in a conspiracy against ICA. I think if they would have just one after 1 or 2 people versus everyone it would have been more effective.

I also don't think it was wise to point out 100x what a liar ICA is. Is the jury now supposed to believe she is telling the truth when her life is on the line.

They should never have made false abuse claims or dragged GA into the c/u. They should have had ICA take sole responsibility even if they went with the drowning theory.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think it was said that they tried to revive her though, right? They knew there was no helping her, she was gone. The only thing they did was hide the body and lie, right. Of course all of this drowning scenario, is just a story, so...:crazy:

Oh that's right. George was holding her and Casey' grabbed her baby from his arms and held her and cried and cried and cried. ' So I guess all that crying took too much time so there was no time left for resuscitation ---which George was trained in for sure.

I am surprised that the DT did not tell us EXACTLY what happened. If I were innocent of murder, and my child drowned by accident, even if it was because I was on the phone or in the shower, I WOULD DESCRIBE THE INCIDENT. Even IF I didn't take the stand because of previous lies in the cover up, I would expect my attorneys to give some kind of hypothetical scenario for the jury to ponder.

IF it were a TRUE story then when they had George on the stand one of those many times they could have said " At 9:45 am while Casey was downloading pix on the computer you came in and asked where Caylee was, correct?"

That is what I would have expected,k as opposed to " it was early morning, no late afternoon, oh yea, in the morning, no we will never know." I HOPE the jury will take this lack of specificity into account tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Leah0107]

I believe the circumstantial evidence in this case is very strong, even without the chloroform. JB said little to cause me to really take serious pause about the evidence presented by the state. Just a few points:
- I found the State's expert testimony to be credible
- I believe her behavior is consistent with guilt, especially, but not limited to, not reporting Caylee missing or dead, misleading (lying) to LE in regard to finding her daughter; of course the 31 days. Borrowing a shovel from the neighbor just days after Caylee was last seen alive.
- She had access to all the incriminating evidence
- She admitted herself to a smell in her car that she described as a dead animal
- hair with PMD banding was very compelling to me - even though it was one hair; I did believe the FBI analyst to be very credible.
- I found Dr. G to be credible and reasonable in her conclusions, and no matter how renowned, Dr. Spitz's testimony was not compelling for me and didn't contribute anything significant to me.
- The air testing re the chemicals of decomp was believable to me as well as the chloroform evidence (but I am putting less weight on the Chloroform evidence).

Regarding the chloroform: I don't believe that the Chloroform searches, which were IMO clearly shown to have been done by her, was an indication of premeditated murder. The level of Chloroform found to be in her trunk was clearly more than just trace and what would naturally be found in the environment. I don't think these are coincidences by any means. However, on this point specifically, without more physical evidence, I couldn't convict of 1st degree murder.
The most damning evidence to me is the duct tape and the reason I would convict of 1st degree murder. I can't explain away 3 pieces of duct tape ranging in size from 7.5 to 9.5 inches being applied to her little face.
This is a very interesting piece, see pg 13

http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2004/071204/5D03-1906.op.pdf

 

[katydid23]

I love your posts, but you're making my head spin. Just the other day we were debating and you compared Casey to Ted Bundy (talking about narcissistic sociopaths). If you believe that about her, why is it so hard to believe that she wouldn't see a drowning as a win-win? Not being snarky, or trying to jump down your throat, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. TIA

Look at the context of that post. The context was that the DT is saying that Casey is such a loving and caring Mother that she would never harm her child like that. And the response to that is if she was truly a loving caring mom then she could not go on a movie date 2 hours later and spend the next full day on a sex marathon. it does not go hand in hand.

And YES, if she is a narcissistic sociopath than it is possible. Which leads me to believe, if given the need to choose between accidental or aggravated manslaughter, then it leads me to choose aggravated. Too much of a coinky-dink that she was over having to care for her kid, and Voila, she fell in an above ground pool, lucky me.

ETA: IF Ted Bundy was a single dad, and his kid turned up dead in his car trunk, would you think it was accidental or on purpose?

 

[com n sense]

Oh that's right. George was holding her and Casey' grabbed her baby from his arms and held her and cried and cried and cried. ' So I guess all that crying took too much time so there was no time left for resuscitation ---which George was trained in for sure.

I am surprised that the DT did not tell us EXACTLY what happened. If I were innocent of murder, and my child drowned by accident, even if it was because I was on the phone or in the shower, I WOULD DESCRIBE THE INCIDENT. Even IF I didn't take the stand because of previous lies in the cover up, I would expect my attorneys to give some kind of hypothetical scenario for the jury to ponder.

IF it were a TRUE story then when they had George on the stand one of those many times they could have said " At 9:45 am while Casey was downloading pix on the computer you came in and asked where Caylee was, correct?"

That is what I would have expected,k as opposed to " it was early morning, no late afternoon, oh yea, in the morning, no we will never know." I HOPE the jury will take this lack of specificity into account tomorrow afternoon.

Doesn't that timing sound just like one of KC's lies????:banghead:

Just like she dropped Caylee off between 9 & 1 pm.

 

[RANCH]

I thought 2 dogs were brought out, on different days. Both alerted on sme area but.....after they scraped through area the one handler, or maybe both said when brought back, they did not alert on the area again. It was confusing.
It was interesting because before area wastouch BOTH dogs went to same area. I remember the one laid down when he alerted. Guess they are trained differently.
I have watched my GSD's and they use their noses to "find" things. They are awesome. I will hide the ones ball and tell him "find" and he will keep sniffing and going until he finds it. The other likes to go out in my garage with me and we have had a problem with rats out there and I can tell when theyre back, he will go to an area,act excited and doesnt want to come back in the house. The jurors really need to lisen to these dogs.
I only wish the handlers wouldve taped their dogs "find" it is now being discussed by working dog people on certain GSD boards. By people who do SAR, etc.

I think that they will use commom sense and their own experiences with dogs to figure out whats up.

 

[smartsass]

that JA referenced. A world where you suspend your disbelief and ignore your common sense and all you know about people and how they act and all the evidence and lies and see ICA as an innocent victim of a massive conspiracy.

The doubts they try to raise are not "reasonable" and that is the real linchpin of this case. What is reasonable? We are supposed to find everyone else's actions, behavior, reactions suspicious and evil but not ICA's, Hers are understandable and excusable in the rabbit hole world.

I trust that the jurors have common sense and life experience and can see through the lies told by the defendant and her attorneys. ICA was with Caylee, there was a dead body in the trunk, ICA lied about everything and couldn't have cared less that her daughter was gone. Her body is found around the corner from her house with duct tape over her face and a heart sticker on it. If it was an accident she wouldn't nor would her attorney have allowed her to sit in jail for 3 days never mind 3 years. Common sense people-works every time.

Brava! Fantastic and succinct way of stating what the wheels in my head have been chugging to state more simply.

And this is something I am already instilling in my girls (not yet school age) and have been from the get-go. Regardless of what someone does to you, you and you alone are responsible for your actions.

 

[Falcon7]

I'm new to this forum so please excuse this if it is common knowledge.
1) Did cadaver dogs search the area around the Anthony home let's say at least a mile or more radius? If so, no hits I assume?
2) Duct tape, that was over the mouth and nose of Caylee, nothing but bones and some hair remained when the body was discovered, how can they be sure that the tape was ever over the mouth and nose? After all tissue is gone the duct tape would be released to move, wherever any forces acted on it. It would not re-stick to the bones after all the tissue was gone. And the length's of the duct tape were to short to wrap around the head of Caylee? I guess the tape could have been longer if pieces were stuck end to end, were they?

 

[GeekyGirl]

Reasonable doubt and illogical confusion are not one in the same. It's called "reasonable" doubt for a reason.

It's important to remember that reasonable doubt is subjective, and just because you don't find someone else's doubt to be reasonable, doesn't mean that it's not reasonable to them. This is why our juries have more than person.

 

[GeekyGirl]

Look at the context of that post. The context was that the DT is saying that Casey is such a loving and caring Mother that she would never harm her child like that. And the response to that is if she was truly a loving caring mom then she could not go on a movie date 2 hours later and spend the next full day on a sex marathon. it does not go hand in hand.

And YES, if she is a narcissistic sociopath than it is possible. Which leads me to believe, if given the need to choose between accidental or aggravated manslaughter, then it leads me to choose aggravated. Too much of a coinky-dink that she was over having to care for her kid, and Voila, she fell in an above ground pool, lucky me.

ETA: IF Ted Bundy was a single dad, and his kid turned up dead in his car trunk, would you think it was accidental or on purpose?

Fair enough.

 

[katydid23]

She use to work for the defense team, she left in 2010.

She still to this day appears on the media billed as ' A CONSULTANT' for the Defense Team.

 

[gngr~snap]

That's a big problem with JB's "story". Why didn't anyone perform CPR or call Paramedics? No, he has George screaming at Casey and then what? A big BLANK.

for real!
maybe she had been dead so long she was stiff...(maybe)
way too late...

ICA and wasn't watching her.
maybe ICA on facebook?
GA wasn't there when he should have been perhaps? up to no good so ICA adds him in the mix cause he was supposed to be.. doesn't wanna answer to CA?
they cover for each other?
or Ica killed caylee!
I'm reaching...
moo