have your thoughts changed? **new poll**

[AnalyzeThis]

I think they both know, and probably both planned this. Not as sure about JI, since he's been so quiet. But what mom wouldn't look in the back yard if her toddler was missing, then say she was afraid of what she'd find? After I searched the house, I'd be searching all over the yard.

Ditto interviewing the kids...yeah, they'll feel just great if they grow up with some memory that they realize wasn't shared with the PD that could have saved their little sister from the "kidnappers."

I hope that LE has tons of evidence we haven't heard about.

 

[liz b.]

No, I have always believed that Lisa was killed in the house... MOO

 

[marge_rita]

I think they both know, and probably both planned this. Not as sure about JI, since he's been so quiet. But what mom wouldn't look in the back yard if her toddler was missing, then say she was afraid of what she'd find? After I searched the house, I'd be searching all over the yard.

Ditto interviewing the kids...yeah, they'll feel just great if they grow up with some memory that they realize wasn't shared with the PD that could have saved their little sister from the "kidnappers."

I hope that LE has tons of evidence we haven't heard about.

I hope Lisa is found shortly. Then like you I hope we find out LE has tons of evidence. This could be a hard case to prove in court if charges are made against one or both of the parents.

imo

 

[Turnadot]

I was firmly planted on the fence, but now I'm hanging off the fence by my teeth, my toes touching the ground.

 

[cobalt sky]

This case is maddening! ullhair:

I am bothered by something, maybe someone here with more experience and insight can enlighten me. Not trying to bash LE or anything but I just do not understand why JI was not given a lie detector test as they did with DB. If LE are trying to be as thorough as possible, why not LDT him? Even if he has a rock solid alibi for the entire time he was at work, has it been confirmed what time he actually left? How does LE know what JI did from the time he left work until he made the 911 call? Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it possible that he came home, "disappeared" baby Lisa, then woke DB? (ie, his original coming home story). DB's timeline has been discussed ad nauseum in the media; what about JI's??? Or have I completely missed it?

What about JI's work phone... I imagine LE has checked pings, etc? Have we heard anything about this?

Prayers, hugs, & kisses for baby Lisa :heartbeat:

MOO

 

[eve314]

Mom and/or Dad. Cadaver dogs don't lie

 

[Curious Me]

Cadaver dogs nudged me off. :fencefall: Mom is responsible for whatever happened to Lisa, and maybe Dad or another relative/neighbor helping cover-up is how I'm seeing it now.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Mine definitely have. From the beginning I was trying to keep a really open mind about the parents. I was basically looking for any outlet I could to say that I thought it was a stranger abduction (or, an abduction by someone who knew the family) that just wanted a baby. That would have been the best outcome here because it would mean Lisa is alive, and being cared for which is what I wanted to believe.

However, what changed for me is when DB, out of nowhere, decided to say she was drunk. But she didn't stop there. Her attitude about it was (and, still is to this day..) ridiculous and way too eager to tell everyone that. It was almost like she didn't care. When the reporter asks "how much had you been drinking" she immediately replies with "a lot. Over 5. Enough to be drunk, and possibly black out", etc. Her willingness to divulge information about it with such a carefree attitude, to me, seemed completely fake. I don't believe she was ever drunk that night. I believe she knows exactly what happened and is using the "I was so drunk I blacked out!" excuse to begin setting up her defense because she knows an arrest is inevitable. She waits until DAYS into the investigation (I think it was about a week, actually..) to say this so that it's WAY too late for LE to test to perform any sort of sobriety test on her, and she waits so long into the investigation because she realizes LE is starting to slowly turn this around and point towards her..and she needs to have some sort of (what she considers to be) credible defense to stand on.

Furthermore, the cadaver dogs hitting on the family's home, combined with DB's media blitz making LE look like the bad guys here, and her looking like the poor victim with little to no mention of their daughter who STILL hasn't been found is just about enough to convince me 100% that the mother, if not both of the parents, are responsible. I'm still not sure about JI, but I'm just about 100% sure that DB is involved, and it's breaking my heart because it means, unfortunately, that Lisa probably is no longer alive.

 

[Detective Klimpt]

I posted my thoughts on the other page...but I was just wondering if they thoroughly checked the neighbor that was sitting out with her and drinking with her? What if SHE coached her to drinking more or added something...and she is the one who went into the home knowing DB would be "passed out" and took Baby Lisa? (Maybe for a friend, etc.) I hope they checked the neighbor out very well. To me if I were having a glass of wine with a neighbor that had a sick baby...I would tell her that maybe 2 is plenty for today...but this neighbor sat for how long? Anybody know? Why hasn't the neighbor who was with her been in the news or talking? I recall hearing a "neighbor" refuses to talk to media. I wonder if it could be due to my theory? Wonder if that neighbor made any outgoing calls late late at night to someone? Like "I have the baby...hurry and come and get her!" ?? Just hypothesizing.

Ditto. Does anyone have information about what the drinking friend neighbor had to say about all this? I have not read one thing regarding her. If there are statements made by her, can someone point me to the link(s).

 

[eve314]

I made this comment in another post. So I hope I am not being redundant. If my baby went missing in the middle of the night and I was drunk and passed out, that is the first thing I would say to the 911 operator and the police and then start balling hysterically and referring to myself as a cow because I would blame myself....one would think instinctively, if I were not culpable, I would provide that information first, because it would account for the truth and the reason for why I could not hear the "break-in".

Now this mother does not give up this information until the the supermarket video surveillance is revealed. Correct me if I am wrong, she also gave this information up after lawyering up as well.

The admission of inebriation and black-outs now is a convenient excuse. If the mother was afraid earlier of being rebuked, or fearful that she may be done in for child neglect, have her other kids taken away - what has changed?? All those fears should remain unchanged.

Again, cadaver dogs don't lie, people do

Mine definitely have. From the beginning I was trying to keep a really open mind about the parents. I was basically looking for any outlet I could to say that I thought it was a stranger abduction (or, an abduction by someone who knew the family) that just wanted a baby. That would have been the best outcome here because it would mean Lisa is alive, and being cared for which is what I wanted to believe.

However, what changed for me is when DB, out of nowhere, decided to say she was drunk. But she didn't stop there. Her attitude about it was (and, still is to this day..) ridiculous and way too eager to tell everyone that. It was almost like she didn't care. When the reporter asks "how much had you been drinking" she immediately replies with "a lot. Over 5. Enough to be drunk, and possibly black out", etc. Her willingness to divulge information about it with such a carefree attitude, to me, seemed completely fake. I don't believe she was ever drunk that night. I believe she knows exactly what happened and is using the "I was so drunk I blacked out!" excuse to begin setting up her defense because she knows an arrest is inevitable. She waits until DAYS into the investigation (I think it was about a week, actually..) to say this so that it's WAY too late for LE to test to perform any sort of sobriety test on her, and she waits so long into the investigation because she realizes LE is starting to slowly turn this around and point towards her..and she needs to have some sort of (what she considers to be) credible defense to stand on.

Furthermore, the cadaver dogs hitting on the family's home, combined with DB's media blitz making LE look like the bad guys here, and her looking like the poor victim with little to no mention of their daughter who STILL hasn't been found is just about enough to convince me 100% that the mother, if not both of the parents, are responsible. I'm still not sure about JI, but I'm just about 100% sure that DB is involved, and it's breaking my heart because it means, unfortunately, that Lisa probably is no longer alive.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

I just wanna say, it isn't looking great for the parents but I'm STILL on the fence!

***THEORY ALERT*** Please don't bite me for this, I'm just explaining why I'm still on the fence.

I'm still wondering.. What if the cadaver dogs are hitting on a scent from someone who died in this old house longer ago.. I guess I can't shake the fact that with the house being so old, other people may have died in the house leaving their scent.

**THEORY/PONDERINGS/NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP***

Did mom really get drunk? If she did, she may have given a sick fussy Lisa some cold medicine- inaccurately measured in her impaired state- and put Lisa in bed with her. Lisa may have rolled out- been accidentally pushed out- already overmedicated and in trouble. Laid there on the floor and died and when mom woke up from her drunken nap- possibly hours later- found her on the floor beside the bed. This is where my theory falls apart... THEN WHAT?

SOOO, that being said.... I remain on the fence. If I were on a jury and mom was standing trial for harming baby Lisa, there would still be reasonable doubt in my mind because there aren't really ANY details as to what took place.

 

[frankie069]

I posted this in the Man seen with a baby thread but I am posting it here too because this is now my theory on what happened.


Once again I will not name names because I know we cant but what if Lisa was killed before Monday night/Tuesday morning sometime and DB put her on her floor dead, wrapped her body, buried her in the backyard,(hence the backyard having a disturbed area) then realized that the police would be all over that and it would probably start to smell and then unburied the baby and had a male relative come by and dispose of the body. If this guy was on foot his chances of being seen would be slim as opposed to a car pulling up that late at night. Someone would more notice a car then a person walking in the dark. ( a car description is easier to give than a persons description that late at night or early in the morning and if it was a member of the family, a blue mustang, black lexus etc would be easier to trace). He might have had a car parked someplace close by and had to walk to that. He would have had to have been pretty fit to walk around for that time period (possibly to throw a scent off or to be sighted in more than one place that night to throw police off and who knows how far he might have parked his car away from the area as well ) If he was holding the baby like he was protecting her, then he was apparently close to her. He could have disguised himself just a little, shave a beard off, color his hair, wear a hat etc.. This is all IF there was actually a man walking with a baby..

My belief once again is that DB had it with Lisa, I feel that she broke the childs neck somehow, whether shaking her to much or slamming her down to keep her quiet, she then lay a dead Lisa on her floor not realizing that a scent could have been picked up, I mean it was only for a few that she might have had her on the floor and she wrapped her in a pillowcase or something of that nature and taped it up. I think this was done before the time period we think. I feel that JI knows about this. Lisa was then buried in the backyard and dug back up again possibly by this man who I think is a family member, anyone else would have cracked by now. I know that they were able to take DNA from some family members but they are family, you expect to find their DNA in your house. They need to take every single family members cars in and search them with the dogs and with a fine toothed comb just in case he dumped Lisa before getting into his car. People may not like being a suspect and I know there are a lot on this board who think no one should be a suspect but we have a missing baby here, every male member of that family should be a suspect until proven they are not, every car taken in and searched. Clothes hampers, dirty clothes all of it should be checked. Like I said, only a family member wouldnt crack a friend would.

A kidnapper is not going to come in the house, take a baby, cell phones, turn on lights, undress the baby, put her dead on the floor until he is ready to leave ( I mean, did he do this while looking for the phones, NOT).. He is then not going to walk down the road and to God knows where after kidnapping a baby. DB and JI took a half hour to call the police when Lisa went missing, DB had admitted to an additional 4 hours of time missing that she didnt see Lisa ( I say she had to come out with that because possibly someone saw her at the time she originally said she saw Lisa and stories would have conflicted). This gave plenty of time to set this whole thing in motion. This is my theory and MOO and I am sticking to it.. :furious:

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Not sure why I'm still fence-sitting, albeit with a pronounced lean toward the parents; after all, in the McCann matter, I've always felt there was no outsider involved, and in the case of the Ramseys - pssht, that one seems pretty obvious. A child is more likely, much more likely, to come to harm at the hands of family than - than, say, at the hands of a housebreaker in a quiet neighborhood in the wee hours in Northland KC.

But one should not form his or her opinion on the basis of past cases. Each is different. To prejudge this family on the basis of whatever has come before is wrong on two levels: it does not grant them even temporary benefit of the murky circumstances here; and it does not aid us in trying to sleuth the matter with any degree of objectivity - it results in our allowing ourselves to be willingly blindered in the search for truth.

I am going to "doubt" the cadaver dog hit. I believe because the glow worm was in the bedroom this may be another tactic of the police in hypothesizing that perhaps DB took Lisa to bed and smothered her by accident...thinking that may be what happened so to try to get that "confession" from her . I'm still high on this fence. For one, I don't believe if anything happened in that house...that Lisa would have covered it up. This is not another Casey Anthony....I believe in my gut that baby was kidnapped and my first person of interest would be the friend who drank with her to oblivion. Maybe that was a set up to come in to get the baby for someone else.(kidnap)...after all if someone who knows the family ...such as the drinking friend on the porch...and was "caught" in the house...she could make up a 100 stories to Lisa if she would have awakened and probably got away with an "almost kidnapping" by claiming she could hear Lisa crying all the way next door, etc. etc. I still have my hat ready to eat if I'm wrong.

 

[Scamperoo]

I just wanna say, it isn't looking great for the parents but I'm STILL on the fence!

***THEORY ALERT*** Please don't bite me for this, I'm just explaining why I'm still on the fence.

I'm still wondering.. What if the cadaver dogs are hitting on a scent from someone who died in this old house longer ago.. I guess I can't shake the fact that with the house being so old, other people may have died in the house leaving their scent.

**THEORY/PONDERINGS/NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP***

Did mom really get drunk? If she did, she may have given a sick fussy Lisa some cold medicine- inaccurately measured in her impaired state- and put Lisa in bed with her. Lisa may have rolled out- been accidentally pushed out- already overmedicated and in trouble. Laid there on the floor and died and when mom woke up from her drunken nap- possibly hours later- found her on the floor beside the bed. This is where my theory falls apart... THEN WHAT?

SOOO, that being said.... I remain on the fence. If I were on a jury and mom was standing trial for harming baby Lisa, there would still be reasonable doubt in my mind because there aren't really ANY details as to what took place.

While I agree this could have been one of many scenarios I want to know when does the insanity stop. There have been so many times just recently when the last person to have direct responsibility for a child only has to say, idunno to get away with everything, sometimes even if you have a body you have a lackluster money grubbing jury willing to sell their collective souls for filthy lucre (base gain).

I'm still hurting over Caylee Anthony being denied justice, I don't want one more so called care giver to get off with a butt load of interviews, book deals and picture deals to reward what at best is negligence and at worst homicide.

 

[jane the dood]

Initially, I really had a gut feeling DB sold Lisa, but now with the cadaver dogs hitting on the scent of death in the home....

From the get-go, the parents just screamed "HINKY!" Sure would like to think Lisa is safe somewhere, but it's not looking good, is it?

After the heartbreak of the Caylee Anthony case, I swore I would never again get emotionally involved in any similar case. But then you see those sweet faces with those big, trusting eyes, and you get pulled in. I was never able to have kids myself, so I can't understand people who have them and them harm them.

 

[Curious Me]

Just thinking about the son being in bed with Mom when the Dad got home, and what that means if the cadaver dog hit near the bed. Did the son come into the bedroom when there was a deceased baby in there? I'm worried for the two young sons, and the possible keeping of secrets now.

 

[Sandraella]

i chose the mom done something because to me she seems kind of shady about her answers and what parent wouldn't search around their home soon as they find a child missing something is off about her just can't place what

 

[marge_rita]

I am going to "doubt" the cadaver dog hit. I believe because the glow worm was in the bedroom this may be another tactic of the police in hypothesizing that perhaps DB took Lisa to bed and smothered her by accident...thinking that may be what happened so to try to get that "confession" from her . I'm still high on this fence. For one, I don't believe if anything happened in that house...that Lisa would have covered it up. This is not another Casey Anthony....I believe in my gut that baby was kidnapped and my first person of interest would be the friend who drank with her to oblivion. Maybe that was a set up to come in to get the baby for someone else.(kidnap)...after all if someone who knows the family ...such as the drinking friend on the porch...and was "caught" in the house...she could make up a 100 stories to Lisa if she would have awakened and probably got away with an "almost kidnapping" by claiming she could hear Lisa crying all the way next door, etc. etc. I still have my hat ready to eat if I'm wrong.

Interesting theory!

Sarx said last night that a cadaver dog would not 'hit' on anything like a toy, and also would not 'hit' urine or feces from someone who was not deceased.

imo

 

[Seth]

I just wanna say, it isn't looking great for the parents but I'm STILL on the fence!

***THEORY ALERT*** Please don't bite me for this, I'm just explaining why I'm still on the fence.

I'm still wondering.. What if the cadaver dogs are hitting on a scent from someone who died in this old house longer ago.. I guess I can't shake the fact that with the house being so old, other people may have died in the house leaving their scent.

**THEORY/PONDERINGS/NOTHING TO BACK THIS UP***

Did mom really get drunk? If she did, she may have given a sick fussy Lisa some cold medicine- inaccurately measured in her impaired state- and put Lisa in bed with her. Lisa may have rolled out- been accidentally pushed out- already overmedicated and in trouble. Laid there on the floor and died and when mom woke up from her drunken nap- possibly hours later- found her on the floor beside the bed. This is where my theory falls apart... THEN WHAT?

SOOO, that being said.... I remain on the fence. If I were on a jury and mom was standing trial for harming baby Lisa, there would still be reasonable doubt in my mind because there aren't really ANY details as to what took place.

I believe DB did get drunk, because the neighbor could testify to that and by how much wine was drank too from the bottles left from a night of drinking. She acted as if she got a pretty good buzz on to admit she could possilbly of blackout. Since I've found out on the news that baby Lisa had a cold with a cough, I believe like you that baby Lisa probably woke up more than likely coughing and since DB wasn't in good shape to stay up with her awhile until her coughing calmed down and all her needs met, she decided it would be easier to put her to bed with her, but I think it's very possible too she accidently overdosed baby Lisa with her cold medicine to keep the cough from upsetting DB.'s sleep. So like you had stated, baby Lisa could of very well died from being over-medicated or rolled out of the bed and hit her head, or both! I wonder when her boyfriend, TI, got home early in the morning hours, thats why he said something like, " What happened here?" maybe when he finally got to their bedroom he seen baby Lisa on the floor, and thats when he said DB, sprung up out of the bed not knowing herself at that moment what horror had happened to her baby Lisa! Then they had to plan the cover up, but thats where I'm at a lost too for now! I pray they find her soon!

 

[artzypantz]

I think its all very hinky....and what comes to my mind is this...Remember that psychic lady that cindy anthony or who ever contacted in the caylee anthony case? Well i dont know for sure, but it i seem to recall that out of that mumble jumble going on & what i THINK i know about that case, it turned out this psychic lady was correct about saying where caylee was after all. IF i am correct in my memory. AND if that is right, WHY doesnt someone contact that same psychic lady concerning this little baby Lisa & her where abouts & what happened to her?? If i knew her name and number i would, any child is worth the chance in my mind. Just my opinion & thoughts
Have a good night all
ArtzyPantz