HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

[cluciano63]

IMO, unless left possibly in Death Valley, I do not see a person decomposing in the way described in a three-month period. It is possible the bones are intertwined with the plant growth, making it difficult to extract DNA without damage. Maybe they awaiting an expert. Jmo

 

[lisalei321]

Hello peeps!

De comp in FL....heat, humidity, rain, and more heat and humidity...

My understanding is that it can be over in as little as 10 days

JMO...:moo:

Sent from my Galaxy S4, using Tapatalk Blue.

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/take-dead-body-to-decompose
snip

The decomposition of a dead body depends on many factors, any of which can affect the time necessary to break it down. If a body is buried in a coffin deep in the ground, for example, it could take as long as 50 years for all of the tissue to disappear. But if it is exposed to the elements, it will decay very quickly.

 

[JLSChook]

1) A body, whether in Florida or not will not be a "bag of bones" after 3 months

2) When did the Moorer's go to Florida? Did they freeze the body before going? If so, that would make the decomp process longer, whether in extreme heat or not

3) Either LE or the person that found the remains said there were roots and vegatation growing through the bag and had probably been there more than a year.

4) The person who found the remains specifically said it was the skull of a small child (female-told to him by deputy), not adult, not infant.

If this is Heather, I will be completely and totally shocked.

 

[carbuff]

Unless the deputy has professional training in forensic anthropology or some related field, his opinion about the skull is no more valid than yours or mine.

 

[Janeumayer]

Unless the deputy has professional training in forensic anthropology or some related field, his opinion about the skull is no more valid than yours or mine.

True. We learned that in the Hailey Dunn case. Remains were found near the main suspect's relative's house, and the person that found them said they looked like a child's. After a few days, they were determined to be of an old man.

 

[Madeleine74]

It's not just about the bones or the size of the skull. There's also the other factors around the bones.

- Like, how long does it take for vegetation and roots to form around and then grow into/through a bag. Only 2 or 3 months? I suspect the answer is no.

- How long does it take for a corpse to be reduced entirely to bones. No flesh at all. No muscle, no skin, no hair. Only 2 to 3 months? Check the research from the Univ of TN/Body Farm.

- Allegedly there's a sheet (or blanket?) in the bag. Where did this sheet/blanket come from?

- Where is any evidence that shows either or both M's drove to FL sometime after 12/18/13 @ 4am and before 01/09/14 when we know they did go to FL?

- Why would the M's keep HE's corpse for 3+ weeks and then take that corpse to FL with them? How would they keep this from their children, who were on that trip? How would there not be any smell that someone could detect (and not even a cadaver dog)?

Remains are found and the description of the bones and what the skull looks like, provided by someone who actually saw those remains, isn't really believed, though I don't know why. That person isn't saying "it's not Heather" they are describing what they found and what they saw. I believe them.

I'll be shocked if those remains are Heather or have anything to do with this case.

 

[carbuff]

True. We learned that in the Hailey Dunn case. Remains were found near the main suspect's relative's house, and the person that found them said they looked like a child's. After a few days, they were determined to be of an old man.

Yeah, and they had been there for like 15 years or something. That was shocking.

I will be quite surprised if these remains turn out to be Heather, but I won't be shocked if they're a 50-year-old vagrant or somebody's elderly grandmother dumped so they can keep collecting her social security checks.

 

[carbuff]

It's not just about the bones or the size of the skull. There's also the other factors around the bones.
(snipped)

Not addressing any of your points specifically, but...what if they "processed" the bones? I keep remembering that nasty comment of TM's about what a good cook SM is. That would reduce both the volume and the smell.

I don't think they did. I think they just threw her in the water somewhere and I'm praying she'll be found after the water turns warm. But it does make me wonder.

And the big question: if not Heather, who?

 

[bessie]

I have a feeling the remains were there for a very long time. The man said the plastic bag fell apart when he tried to lift it. And vegetation was growing through it. That didn't happen in a few months, winter months, at that.

As for age and gender, I recall cases where an onsite LE observer said skeletal remains were those of a child, when in fact, the deceased was an adult. Bones found in Gainesville a couple of years ago were at first said to have been many years old. Turned out the woman was dead for one year. These mistakes are common. Until the M. E. and a forensic anthropologist issue their findings, it's anyone's guess. JMO

 

[matou]

If this is really a juvenile skeleton then the bony end caps (epiphyses) will not be fused at all. Fusion at the long bones only begins around age 9 and ends around 22 (with variances of course). JMO

http://allthingsaafs.com/2013/08/21...f-a-human-skeleton-epiphyseal-closure-method/

 

[bessie]

I haven't had a chance to read about the specifics of gag orders in SC, but I read up a lot on them for Lauren Giddings' case in Georgia. GA and SC tend to have similar legal procedures etc, so it may very well be a very similar three prong test that determines what comments can be made extrajudicially, with just as loose/general of a burden to meet.

I. implications about the defendant's character, credibility, reputation, or criminal record
II. an opinion as to their client's or the accused guilt or innocence
III. remarks about evidence the lawyer knows will be inadmissible

The question in Lauren Giddings' case was if more "if her remains are found, would that be confirmed before the trial?" And it seems like opinion leaned towards "yes, it would be," with some exceptions as to what would be "questionable" ways for case players to do so:

[rsbm]

Confirmation in either case would come from the office of the coroner or medical examiner in the county where remains are found. In this particular instance, that would be the Volusia County Medical Examiner.

 

[TTF14]

Not addressing any of your points specifically, but...what if they "processed" the bones? I keep remembering that nasty comment of TM's about what a good cook SM is. That would reduce both the volume and the smell.

I don't think they did. I think they just threw her in the water somewhere and I'm praying she'll be found after the water turns warm. But it does make me wonder.

And the big question: if not Heather, who?

BBM. I keep thinking about that, too. Knowing what we know now about Tammy, I think everything she said/wrote was very calculated. The only "wink" she included in that list was attached to that particular statement. If it didn't mean something about Heather, it meant SOMETHING besides just that he was a good cook.

 

[Foxfire]

Guess, there is at least one conclusion that we can draw from Horry County PD contacting the Volusia County Sheriff's Office about the remains discovery; 'they do not have a body'..

The fire pit at the M's home has haunted me and imo, was likely used by them to eliminate soft tissue and other forensically indictable evidence before disposal of the remaining skeletal remains. If my memory is correct from an anthropology class attended. When a body is burned at the normal temperature range of a burn pit or campfire. The color of skeletal bones will appear very white, as would bones exposed to to direct sunlight for years..

Since TM & SM's vehicle were caught by security camera heading back to their residence and no remains were located during the search. Imo, this seems to be the most likely scenario..



Photo of human bones on a pile of burned car tires
https://www.google.com/search?q=bon...gspot.com%2F2011_03_01_archive.html;1600;1063

 

[cluciano63]

Guess, there is at least one conclusion that we can draw from Horry County PD contacting the Volusia County Sheriff's Office about the remains discovery; 'they do not have a body'..

The fire pit at the M's home has haunted me and imo, was likely used by them to eliminate soft tissue and other forensically indictable evidence before disposal of the remaining skeletal remains. If my memory is correct from an anthropology class attended. When a body is burned at the normal temperature range of a burn pit or campfire. The color of skeletal bones will appear very white, as would bones exposed to to direct sunlight for years..

Since TM & SM's vehicle were caught by security camera heading back to their residence and no remains were located during the search. Imo, this seems to be the most likely scenario..



Photo of human bones on a pile of burned car tires
https://www.google.com/search?q=bon...gspot.com%2F2011_03_01_archive.html;1600;1063

Yes, in fact it seems they do not have any "physical remains" from Heather, i.e as they said "no smoking gun" per se. Makes me really wonder what they do have that signifies she is deceased. Jmo

 

[nosysw]

A lot has been said about TM's comment about SM being a good cook and the wink. TBH, I thought she was referring to something sexual. Wasn't that about the time of the Valentine's Day stuff? And he made all those chocolate covered strawberries, etc. I actually find it hard to believe that she would put that on FB with a wink if it referred to burning up Heather. That would kind of suggest her FBF were in on "the joke". Which, since all of her FBF don't seem to be really friends, I would be very surprised about. MOO and all that.

 

[Makaroni]

I've thought it's just her ... She brags about everything and to her, Sidney being an awesome chef is just another way they are superior to the rest of us. Just my thoughts though ...

 

[Madeleine74]

If the M's had been so stupid as to burn (or attempt to burn) a body in that fire pit in back, LE would have discovered it. Something would have been left; a cadaver dog likely would have hit on something there or near there. The likelihood of removing every single trace of HE by burning in a backyard fire pit is somewhere between slim and none. I do not believe they would have been able to successfully do that and certainly not without someone seeing something or LE finding some evidence. And then... taking these supposed bones and discarding them in FL? Why there?

There is no evidence to support this theory that I can find. Perhaps a nice fictional plot for a future story, but I don't think it's part of this case, IMO.

 

[NFYIAMY]

If the M's had been so stupid as to burn (or attempt to burn) a body in that fire pit in back, LE would have discovered it. Something would have been left; a cadaver dog likely would have hit on something there or near there. The likelihood of removing every single trace of HE by burning in a backyard fire pit is somewhere between slim and none. I do not believe they would have been able to successfully do that and certainly not without someone seeing something or LE finding some evidence. And then... taking these supposed bones and discarding them in FL? Why there?

There is no evidence to support this theory that I can find. Perhaps a nice fictional plot for a future story, but I don't think it's part of this case, IMO.

But, but, but....... In that press conference Saundra Rhodes said "Evidence found ON THE MOORER PROPERTY" is what led to the murder charge. We don't know they DIDN'T find something like that.

 

[carbuff]

A lot has been said about TM's comment about SM being a good cook and the wink. TBH, I thought she was referring to something sexual. Wasn't that about the time of the Valentine's Day stuff? And he made all those chocolate covered strawberries, etc. I actually find it hard to believe that she would put that on FB with a wink if it referred to burning up Heather. That would kind of suggest her FBF were in on "the joke". Which, since all of her FBF don't seem to be really friends, I would be very surprised about. MOO and all that.

That's certainly possible, and would make sense in the context.