HCPD contacts Florida LE about skeletal remains that were found

[Madeleine74]

I would assume,as I've stated before....IF the M's...please notice the large IF....if the M's took Heather to FL on their way to Disney,they would need to put her somewhere AWAY from their property and get her on their way down for all of the obvious reasons. I wasn't suggesting that they kept Heather in their camper for 3 weeks and then had their kids sit beside their victim all the way to FL but thanks for the..."according to science" I would never have known this had you not added that comment to your post.

If they transported HE's remains to FL at any point after she was dead for at least 24 hrs, wouldn't her scent be on or in whatever vehicle they used to transport her such that a cadaver dog would be able to detect this scent? So let's say they put her somewhere else and then transported her in bags and then in a container in the camper. Or in a bunch of bags in the back of a pickup truck. I don't know, but I wonder if her scent would linger such that a cadaver dog would be able to detect it. Unless they used a vehicle that police had no access to and could not get access to test, in order to transport HE's remains.

And I used the "science" reference because I was saying that's the reason I thought it unrealistic, which had nothing to do with a "who knows what those M's would do cause they are crazy and would do anything" reason.

 

[carbuff]

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The person who found them did say that and in early articles,they reported not being able to tell how long the remains were there or when the person died. I don't think they mentioned it in the latest article either. Anyone know?

The only thing I can remember is somebody saying it had been about a year since the grass and underbrush were trimmed, which kind of implied no more than a year or so. But I don't think that was an official source, either.

 

[Mahouston69]

I remember reading this somewhere also. I'm unsure where and when it was reported though. I'll look later and see if I can find it.

I also want to comment on the reason why FL may be keeping the ID under wraps if the remains are Heather. I would think that they'd keep it under wraps because they do not want a change in venue. If these remains turn out to be Heather I seriously doubt that there would be one person in Horry County that would not think with absolute certainty that the Mororers were the ones that put her there. That would be the proverbial nail that sealed the Moorer's coffins

You bring up a great point. The lack of acknowledgement of the remains possibly or positively belonging to Heather, could be a legal tactic to keep the charges, not just the case in this jurisdiction. It's possible the murderer charges could and would have to be re-filed in Florida if it's believed she was kidnapped but taken there alive from PT...and killed in Florida.

 

[carbuff]

You bring up a great point. The lack of acknowledgement of the remains possibly or positively belonging to Heather, could be a legal tactic to keep the charges, not just the case in this jurisdiction. It's possible the murderer charges could and would have to be re-filed in Florida if it's believed she was kidnapped but taken there alive from PT...and killed in Florida.

Yeah, but keeping the ID under wraps isn't going to change that.

And it would be completely unethical if they did. When the truth came out, it would probably be considered prosecutorial misconduct and result in a mistrial or cause the verdict to be voided.

 

[Motherof5]

If they transported HE's remains to FL at any point after she was dead for at least 24 hrs, wouldn't her scent be on or in whatever vehicle they used to transport her such that a cadaver dog would be able to detect this scent? So let's say they put her somewhere else and then transported her in bags and then in a container in the camper. Or in a bunch of bags in the back of a pickup truck. I don't know, but I wonder if her scent would linger such that a cadaver dog would be able to detect it. Unless they used a vehicle that police had no access to and could not get access to test, in order to transport HE's remains.

And I used the "science" reference because I was saying that's the reason I thought it unrealistic, which had nothing to do with a "who knows what those M's would do cause they are crazy and would do anything" reason.

You are missing my point.

 

[Mahouston69]

Yeah, but keeping the ID under wraps isn't going to change that.

And it would be completely unethical if they did. When the truth came out, it would probably be considered prosecutorial misconduct and result in a mistrial or cause the verdict to be voided.

Not if FL corroborates and confirms identity is/was not established until, it is. It could be assumed a legal tactic, unethical. But, it would have to be proven they knew/already know.

 

[carbuff]

Not if FL corroborates and confirms identity is/was not established until, it is. It could be assumed a legal tactic, unethical. But, it would have to be proven they knew/already know.

If they really don't know, then yeah, there's no issue. I thought you were suggesting they would know and deliberately hold it back, and that would backfire on them in the long run.

 

[Madeleine74]

The jurisdiction for the legal case would remain where she was kidnapped, and not FL. It's her home, it's the M's home, it's the originating point of the crime.

 

[Madeleine74]

You are missing my point.

I believe your point was that the M's are crazy enough to do anything, including stashing HE's body away for 3 weeks and then taking her or picking her up wherever they stashed her to take her body with them to FL to dump her there since FL is a place they did go and could have gone, but since police searched their camper on 12/19 with a looksee, H.E. couldn't have been in the camper on that day/at that time.

 

[Mahouston69]

The jurisdiction for the legal case would remain where she was kidnapped, and not FL. It's her home, it's the M's home, it's the originating point of the crime.

No I don't think so..entirely. That may be why they say they believe she was murdered at PT, instead of just kidnapped but if it is or can be proven she was kidnapped and taken to FL alive and murdered there, they would face kidnapping charges in this case then kidnapping and murder charges in FL. When a crime violates the laws of more than one state, you can be charged in both. duel sovereighty doctrine US Supreme Court Decision 1985 (Heath vs Alabama)

 

[carbuff]

No I don't think so..entirely. That may be why they say they believe she was murdered at PT, instead of just kidnapped but if it is or can be proven she was kidnapped and taken to FL alive and murdered there, they would face kidnapping charges in this case then kidnapping and murder charges in FL. When a crime violates the laws of more than one state, you can be charged in both. duel sovereighty doctrine US Supreme Court Decision 1985 (Heath vs Alabama)

A kidnapping that crosses state lines would bring federal law into play as well, wouldn't it? Whereas just disposing of a body out of state wouldn't?

 

[KayBeDeBe]

Was there a report stating what Heather was wearing when she went to PTL? Same clothing as in photo of her driving the stick shift? Trying to remember???

 

[Madeleine74]

For the record, until there is confirmation of whose remains these are, I do not have any reason to believe they are (H.E.). The MM sheet doesn't convince me it is H.E. It could be someone else entirely. I've seen no evidence nor have I heard of evidence where either of the M's went on a sudden drive to FL before January 2014. If one of them did make such a drive, I am unaware of it. If someone has seen an article in MSM that indicates someone from the M family did disappear for the amount of time it would take to drive down to FL, on or around Dec 18, 2013, I haven't seen it, but would love read it.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I'm wondering, if LE was keeping close tabs on their movements, what about the two claims of being shot at and guns pointed at them? Where was LE? I thought that was odd at the time.

Maybe LE was following at a distance. It's not like they are magicians and can stop someone from shooting at a moving truck, assuming that someone DID shoot specifically at their truck. I've never been quite sure about that. (as in, someone might have been shooting, but it wasn't necessarily intended for the Moorer's-but maybe I just travel through LA way too much, people shoot out car windows frequently in some areas...)

Makaroni, I agree with you and carbuff. The time span between the cc cameras of the alleged Moorer's truck on the way to PTL was approx 3 minutes. There was only 1 minute time span between cameras on the way back from PTL. (going from memory here and don't have a link, sorry) Anyway, this indicates to me that there was a sense of urgency and whoever was driving that truck was in a panic.

IF these remains are Heather's, I theorize they drove back to the Moorer compound and handled 'things' from the camper because the children would have been in the house. Then Heather was placed in the tool box of the truck and transported to FL by one of the Moorer's while the other stayed home with the kids. JMO

I think poor Heather was ambushed the moment she set foot in that truck. RIP Heather.

But WOULD the children have been in the house? They might have been staying with TM's sister, or the grandparents or even with friends. No one actually knows if the children were home that night or not.

Didn't LE or ME say they looked like they had been there at least a year? I know the person who found them said it but thought someone else concurred. If so, I would tend to believe them. Imo there is a big difference between three months and a year, even in Florida.

When someone says that the remains they found is X time old, or looks X time old, I have to take that with a grain of salt. Unless you know the circumstances leading up to disposal (were the remains exposed to chemicals? Have they been moved? Were they in the container they are currently in from the beginning?), a person cannot possibly know until they have been examined. I haven't seen anything about how long they might have been there since they have been examined, which also strikes me as odd. It still seems like they are trying to ID the remains before they say anything at all.

Was there a report stating what Heather was wearing when she went to PTL? Same clothing as in photo of her driving the stick shift? Trying to remember???

No, it specifically does not say. That makes me think that whatever she was wearing in the photos from the date was found at her home (but I could be wrong).

 

[JusticeforHE]

Ever since the body in Deland, FL was discovered I've always had a gut feeling it is Heather. The hush-hush and tight lipped LE only add to that feeling, along with the gag order put in place the day after the body was discovered. As people have said earlier, criminals tend to go to places they are familiar with to either commit the crimes and/or get rid of evidence.

Yes, the 3 week delay in Heather's death and their known trip to FL is a little odd, as far as hiding the body or what they did do with it. However, I'm sure both of them are in a panic after committing murder along with the adrenaline rush and whatever substances they could have been under the influence of.. so taking a trip to FL from Myrtle around 4 or 5 am in the morning, dumping her body off the side of the road in a trash bag.. and coming straight back home isn't unbelievable. I'm sure they did not want any remains sitting around their property for three weeks.

[modsnip]

 

[Ghostwheel]

For the record, until there is confirmation of whose remains these are, I do not have any reason to believe they are (H.E.). The MM sheet doesn't convince me it is H.E. It could be someone else entirely. I've seen no evidence nor have I heard of evidence where either of the M's went on a sudden drive to FL before January 2014. If one of them did make such a drive, I am unaware of it. If someone has seen an article in MSM that indicates someone from the M family did disappear for the amount of time it would take to drive down to FL, on or around Dec 18, 2013, I haven't seen it, but would love read it.

But do you have any reason to believe it is NOT Heather? (Not saying that it is, but that it is not out of the realm of possibility). No one had the Ms on the radar before December 19, so between the last time anyone actually saw Heather, until the time SM (or his phone) was discovered to have had contact with Heather's cell phone on that day, anything could have happened, including a trip. (Say, did they bring the cadaver dogs to Heather's car?). If the remains are not confirmed to be Heather, neither are they ruled out. Is there anything that prohibits these remains from being Heather at this time?

 

[TedMac]

Was there a report stating what Heather was wearing when she went to PTL? Same clothing as in photo of her driving the stick shift? Trying to remember???

I don't believe it was ever determined what she was wearing when she went to PTL.

 

[Madeleine74]

But do you have any reason to believe it is NOT Heather? (Not saying that it is, but that it is not out of the realm of possibility). No one had the Ms on the radar before December 19, so between the last time anyone actually saw Heather, until the time SM (or his phone) was discovered to have had contact with Heather's cell phone on that day, anything could have happened, including a trip. (Say, did they bring the cadaver dogs to Heather's car?). If the remains are not confirmed to be Heather, neither are they ruled out. Is there anything that prohibits these remains from being Heather at this time?

For me it's a matter of evidence. I don't automatically assume a body is a particular missing person, especially when the remains found are many hundreds of miles away from the last known area the victim was. It's a leap for my brain to immediately think "Aha! that must be Heather because the body is female & the M's liked going to Disney World." I have no reason to believe anything in regards to these remains other than what's known so far: they are female, they were discarded with what appears to be a sheet of some kind with a Disney or MM theme, and the remains are apparently skeletonized, found with plants growing into and through the trash bag. If there were no other missing females, presumed dead, in or within a couple states of FL I might think or even assume these could be Heather. Sadly Heather is only one of many missing young women.

 

[Ghostwheel]

For me it's a matter of evidence. I don't automatically assume a body is a particular missing person, especially when the remains found are many hundreds of miles away from the last known area the victim was. It's a leap for my brain to immediately think "Aha! that must be Heather because the body is female & the M's liked going to Disney World." I have no reason to believe anything in regards to these remains other than what's known so far: they are female, they were discarded with what appears to be a sheet of some kind with a Disney or MM theme, and the remains are apparently skeletonized, found with plants growing into and through the trash bag. If there were no other missing females, presumed dead, in or within a couple states of FL I might think or even assume these could be Heather. Sadly Heather is only one of many missing young women.

Exactly. It is possible it is Heather, unless something comes forward that rules her out. OK, just checking.

 

[Canaille]

For me it's a matter of evidence. I don't automatically assume a body is a particular missing person, especially when the remains found are many hundreds of miles away from the last known area the victim was. It's a leap for my brain to immediately think "Aha! that must be Heather because the body is female & the M's liked going to Disney World." I have no reason to believe anything in regards to these remains other than what's known so far: they are female, they were discarded with what appears to be a sheet of some kind with a Disney or MM theme, and the remains are apparently skeletonized, found with plants growing into and through the trash bag. If there were no other missing females, presumed dead, in or within a couple states of FL I might think or even assume these could be Heather. Sadly Heather is only one of many missing young women.

BBM, I don't recall that being known yet as to whether or not the remains were male or female. Or have I missed something?

I also wonder if, IF, these are the remains of Heather... could something have been done chemically to advance decomposition but most of all to remove her tattoos so as to not have an easy identification? Well, I think I stated this backwards... Let me try again...

Could something have been done to her to remove the tattoos, and as a result, it also caused advanced decomposition?

It does seem strange to me that it is taking so long to identify this person. Angie Pipkin (I think) remains were sent to MUSC and identified in a matter of days. And if I recall correctly, her remains where skeletal.

Does anyone here remember where SM's parents lived in Florida when he was growing up? I only remember comments made by TM that he lived near Disney when he was a kid.