TX - Heidi Broussard, 33 Found Deceased, & Margo Carey, 2 weeks, Found Alive Austin, 12 Dec 2019 #7

[The Saint]

I also simply cannot get the thought out of my head of MF attempting to sell a crib online as was reported previously.

Was she simply trolling for another baby?

Chilling IMO.

Doesn't MF have a lot of siblings? She could have been selling the crib for one of them or a neighbor who isn't computer savvy.

imo

 

[Winterhike]

I think it was important to her to have Heidi's baby. The risks of her being caught with Margo were so much higher than if she had stolen a stranger's baby with no links to her. IMO.

I agree. I still think she might have had some earlier thoughts of stealing someone else's baby (because of that crib listing), but something about Heidi and Margo really tipped her over the edge. I still think it's possible that she really did manage to get pregnant around the same time Margo was conceived and that being pregnant at the same time as her best friend felt very special and like she had a connection to Heidi's baby too. Then when she lost her baby (if there was one), her reaction was to feel entitled to Margo.
She obviously wasn't afraid to kill Heidi, but she didn't try to steal Margo from her womb before birth. There are probably many reasons to make that choice, but I think it's possible that she did feel a real connection to/desire to possess Margo in particular that stopped her from putting her life at risk with a hack job amateur c-section.

 

[Bravo]

IMO killer and Heidi were likely in a one sided friendship. If Heidi was here today to tell us, I'm betting she dismissed red flags as they had been friends since pre teen. I don't know if it's been established that they remained close for all these years. A sociopath will discard you like an old pr. of socks once they don't need you anymore. Killing Heidi to get what she wanted likely wasn't difficult for her to carry out. Her past behaviour of theft, driving without License, Insurance, sponging off her "Landlord" etc. is just a glimpse of her. She obviously had no regard to the Law or people prior to the murder. I wonder what else she has done we don't know about. IMO

 

[renarde]

Agree, without the “baby” from the (alleged faux-baby-daddy) landlord-that she is not paying rent to; without CG - MF is homeless and without a job - penniless.

With a “baby” she has got shelter and child support for 18 years....

How much did she want a baby vs how much more did she want a house and a paycheck.

MF might have treated the baby horribly if her scheme worked out.

I was “assuming” MF was desperate for a baby - now I think she was desperate - not to be homeless and penniless - and the baby was a means to that end.

Not such a sure thing though. If they weren't married, and they separated somehow... he "evicted" her, and she decided to go for eighteen years of child support via the AG, wouldn't a paternity test normally ensue before CG would've had to pay child support? Did she think that through?

 

[Winterhike]

Oh my! Lol
I mentioned upthread how frightening it is to think MF was loose on the maternity ward when Heidi was in the hospital. Moo

Maybe she did plan to take Margo from the hospital and that was part of the reason she was there (and possibly making phone/Facetime calls to people saying Margo was hers in what seems like premature timing), but the security measures were more of an obstacle that she thought they would be so she had to wait.

 

[renarde]

DBM

 

[Bravo]

A CAR KEY

Beyond barbaric

 

[Seattle1]

Not such a sure thing though. If they weren't married, and they separated somehow... he "evicted" her, and she decided to go for eighteen years of child support via the AG, wouldn't a paternity test normally ensue before CG would've had to pay child support? Did she think that through?

Believe it or not -- paternity does not dictate child support.

 

[BeeGirl]

Thank you so much! You’re the best. Just contact Tricia and it will be super easy!! Welcome aboard.

It looks like guilty but mentally ill is not an option in TX. So it’s either NGRI or nothing, it appears.

To flesh this out a little more for everyone I looked up those cases (kind of scary how many there are):

• Winifred Ransom (Fetal abduction - NGRI) that was a 1974 case out of PA. They use the Mc’Naughten rule. Based on the facts of that case I don’t think she’d get away with that now: 31 Dec 1969, Page 4 - The Daily Courier at Newspapers.com
• Andrea Curry-Demus (Guilty but mentally ill) Another PA case but from 2008. She was sentenced to life. Guilty by mentally ill in PA means that they didn’t meet the burden of showing they were insane at the time of the murder but we mentally ill and this entitled to treatment. BTW, this was the third time this particular woman either tried to kill a pregnant mom or stole a baby: Andrea Curry-Demus Gets Life for Cutting Baby from 18-Year-Old's Womb
• Darci Pierce (Guilty but mentally ill) 1987 NM case. Man. That case has some similarities to this one possibly.
  The Crime
  On July 23, 1987, brandishing a fake gun, Pierce kidnapped eight-month pregnant Cindy Lyn Ray from the parking lot of a clinic at the Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Ray was returning to her car after having had a prenatal exam inside the clinic.
  Pierce drove the two to her home where she was set up to perform the Caesarean operation and steal Ray's baby girl, but as she approached the house, she saw that her husband was home. She then drove to a secluded area up in the Manzano Mountains.
  There she strangled Ray with the cord of a fetal monitor which was in Ray's purse. She then dragged her behind bushes and ripped at her abdomen with a car key until she could reach the near-term baby. She bit through the umbilical cord, severing the baby from her semi-conscious mother, who she then left to bleed to death. Read About the First Documented Case of Fetus Theft and Murder
  (Read more at link about her planning, etc. Insane.)
  She was sentenced to life in prison, which in NM is a minimum of 30 years although recent legislation is trying to make it only 30 years and relatives of her victim are horrified by that: Man whose wife was murdered, unborn baby cut out with car keys, fears her killer will be released
• Effie Goodson (Initially unfit to stand for trial, later was sentenced to life). A 2003 Oklahoma case. She also initially stated her intention to mount an insanity defense and the state had sought the death penalty. But she dropped her defense and state agreed to drop the death penalty in exchange for a plea to two life sentences for two counts of murder. No possibility of parole. The family of the victims agreed. Woman pleads guilty to killing pregnant woman, cutting out fetus
  
• Kathy Coy (pled guilty but mentally ill to avoid the death penalty) 2011 KY case. We’ve seen the guilty but mentally ill verdict in another KY case (or maybe TN?) This was a plea deal to LWOP. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/news/local/crime/article44158425.html

Mental Illness vs. Insanity in Pennsylvania Criminal Defense - Gambone Law

The Insanity Defense Among the States - FindLaw


So it looks like the only one of the ones we’ve seen above that succeeded in a NGRI was from 1974 in PA.

Finally, Texas looks like one of the strictest states when it comes to insanity:

INSANITY AS AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IN TEXAS
Insanity as an affirmative defense in Texas is not used as widely as the public assumes. In fact, it is used only in rare circumstances. But when it is used, it can be an effective defense for the defendant, but may also come at a price to the defendant.

WHAT IS THE INSANITY DEFENSE?
According to Tex. Code Crim. P. Art. 46C, insanity is a defense. In Texas, at the time of the offense, the defendant must have had a mental disease or mental defect that caused the defendant not to know that his or her conduct was wrong.

The standard for this defense is very strict. In fact, a medical doctor can deem you clinically insane, but legally you can be deemed sane. Further, if a defendant were successful and found not guilty by reason of insanity, the defendant is not free but will be sent to a State mental hospital, the time of which is not to exceed the maximum amount of incarceration a guilty verdict for the offense would have rendered. To determine insanity, the State of Texas employs the M'Naghten Rule but had at one time also employed the Irresistible Impulse Test.
Houston Texas Insanity Defense | Doug Murphy Law Firm, P.C.
(That’s a really good page explaining much more about the insanity defense and how it works and how it doesn’t. Much more at link).

I note that every single one of those above is a womb raider case. So strange. But one of them kidnapped a baby from the hospital earlier before later killing a pregnant mom.

This case is more unique. I don’t think it makes a difference in terms of whether this weirdo can get off via an insanity defense.

But it’s astounding how many wackos are out there wanting to kill for a baby. I guess more now that hospitals have made or harder to steal a baby?

This is awesome! Yeah, she’s screwed on the knowing right from wrong part. In my state - and in most others, I’d imagine - working to conceal, obfuscate or minimize your role in a crime to avoid responsibility demonstrates you had the capacity to understand that crime was wrong. We’ve already heard about that from, at a minimum, the Equusearch fella.

 

[Uninformant]

If her goal was financial security, I doubt her intent was to trap a man into thinking a baby was his. If she was after money, her intent was likely to sell the baby. She may have profiles on open adoption sites, or may have responded to prospective adoptive parents who place ads all over. Perhaps multiple parents.

 

[The Saint]

If her goal was financial security, I doubt her intent was to trap a man into thinking a baby was his. If she was after money, her intent was likely to sell the baby. She may have profiles on open adoption sites, or may have responded to prospective adoptive parents who place ads all over. Perhaps multiple parents.

But if that were the case, I don't think she'd go through the charade of pretending to be pregnant and set up a baby registry.

 

[Trudie]

If Heidi was here today to tell us, I'm betting she dismissed red flags as they had been friends since pre teen.

I bet so. I’m sure as Heidi matured and settled down, raising her family, she noticed oddities about MF. Maybe she even felt sorry for her, the friend that’s always available. If Tammy and/or SC speak out, I think they might have some things to say about their observations, moo

 

[vlpate]

I'm not convinced that HB actually drove her car back to her parking space. The scene sounds staged to me - car door open, apt door open with her dog on the landing.

If HB had returned and left the apt door open, her dog would have followed her down the stairs. I think that the fight that the neighbors heard could have been between MF and an accomplice or between MF and SC.

Do we even know the gender of the voices that the neighbors heard around 1 pm?


It might have like Fotis Dulos driving his wife's SUV to the park where she jogged.

In this case, the killer(s) would want it to look like someone kidnapped HB and the baby from her apt complex. HB might have been alive in MF's car trunk and strangled elsewhere, maybe even MF's house.

So as MF sped away w/ HB in the trunk and the baby inside the car, the accomplice drove HB's car back to HB's apt. The fight could have been between the accomplice and SC.

During MF's phone call w/ HB, could have invited HB+ the baby to meet her at a coffee shop and slipped a drug into whatever HB was eating or drinking. MF would volunteer to drop HB and the baby back at the apt complex, but inside she drove back to Houston. HB may not have been in the trunk, but rather sedated inside MF's car.

Investigators sound like their confident that HB returned back to her apt, so I don't know. Maybe the accomplice joined them at the coffee shop and offered to drive HB's car back to her apt since she was woozy from being drugged. MF
drove her car back with the baby. When they all arrived back at the apt, HB was shoved into the trunk or remained knocked out in MF's car while MF and the accomplice staged the scene and got in a fight upstairs and that's what the neighbor's heard.

imo

Did I miss a bunch of new details?

 

[CapitalBat]

IMO killer and Heidi were likely in a one sided friendship. If Heidi was here today to tell us, I'm betting she dismissed red flags as they had been friends since pre teen. I don't know if it's been established that they remained close for all these years. A sociopath will discard you like an old pr. of socks once they don't need you anymore. Killing Heidi to get what she wanted likely wasn't difficult for her to carry out. Her past behaviour of theft, driving without License, Insurance, sponging off her "Landlord" etc. is just a glimpse of her. She obviously had no regard to the Law or people prior to the murder. I wonder what else she has done we don't know about. IMO

I really do wish we could hear this friendship described from Heidi’s perspective from the dates and the frequency of the SM posts in which the two appeared together, it seems like they were close when HB was pregnant with her first child too, planning the baby shower invites together, as well as earlier this year and late 2018 with hikes and texts and such. I wonder what the years in between looked like? If her obsession with managing HB’s life (or her sense of “I should have what she has” or “she should be doing things this way” - however we parse it, I believe MF had a sense of indignantly feeling that she would “do things better” that drove her actions to some extent) was steadily growing or if there were any gaps in their contact/friendship. But we know MF was present and prepared to announce her pregnancy around or exactly when HB did, so she must have been spending time with her with some consistency. IMOO

 

[Chloe_ee]

Not such a sure thing though. If they weren't married, and they separated somehow... he "evicted" her, and she decided to go for eighteen years of child support via the AG, wouldn't a paternity test normally ensue before CG would've had to pay child support? Did she think that through?

It doesn't seem like she thought that far ahead...and yes unmarried - unless she got him to marry her once he saw his 'baby'.. we will learn more..

 

[Chloe_ee]

Not such a sure thing though. If they weren't married, and they separated somehow... he "evicted" her, and she decided to go for eighteen years of child support via the AG, wouldn't a paternity test normally ensue before CG would've had to pay child support? Did she think that through?

It doesn't seem like she thought that far ahead...and yes unmarried - unless she got him to marry her once he saw his 'baby'.. we will learn more..

But if that were the case, I don't think she'd go through the charade of pretending to be pregnant and set up a baby registry.

You know...multiple scenarios, MF would get current supply for being 'pregnant' with pregnancy attention, a place to say for free, then 'whoops I lost the baby' because she sold it (it being Margot), perhaps getting money from multiple intended parents she was planning on 'selling' the baby too...there are so many open ended issues with MF...

 

[Trudie]

But we know MF was present and prepared to announce her pregnancy around or exactly when HB did, so she must have been spending time with her with some consistency.

It. appears MF needed a place to stay at the time she announced her pregnancy, according to the video posted earlier. Rachel (iirc) said Heidi invited her to stay over a few days.

I’m guessing here but I think after divorce MF’s life spiraled south rapidly.
Moo

 

[Bravo]

If her goal was financial security, I doubt her intent was to trap a man into thinking a baby was his. If she was after money, her intent was likely to sell the baby. She may have profiles on open adoption sites, or may have responded to prospective adoptive parents who place ads all over. Perhaps multiple parents.

Oh my i never considered this. It's possible. Yikes

 

[tmar]

If her goal was financial security, I doubt her intent was to trap a man into thinking a baby was his. If she was after money, her intent was likely to sell the baby. She may have profiles on open adoption sites, or may have responded to prospective adoptive parents who place ads all over. Perhaps multiple parents.

LE will be looking into all MF's searches/ads/phonecalls etc.
Wonder what else we will find?
Future plans once she has Margo????
MOO.

 

[Chloe_ee]

She may have taken a stranger’s baby, given a chance.
I think she despised Heidi and was highly jealous. Especially if Heidi was the happy, bubbly type.
Maybe she despised SC for taking Heidi from her, in her mind. How lucky for Heidi & SC that MF lived a good distance from them. Imagine being bothered with her on a daily basis. I think she’s t r o u b l e from the get go. Moo

I would make a safe bet that MF family has seen enough of her antics of every sort to last them all several lifetimes...