Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[Indy Anna]

JMO
I too think the remains must have been moved at least once and maybe even moved back and forth. I am also starting to think the deep well of the 2 wells mentioned may have been where her remains were hidden.

One thing that I couldnt figure out is if she was placed at the bottom of the deeper well , then how would they get her back out to move remains. I just now thought of a way it could be done. Enter bucket. If they would have tied fishing line to that bucket and lowered down into the deep well, then its possible they could have retrieved her back up by just pulling the bucket back up by the fishing line.

But of course they would not want LE to see the fishing line if they searched the well, so was wondering how they may have accomplished that. Then I realized all they had to do is loop enough line through the bucket handle and tie it in a knot at the end so that it really is 2 strings going all the way down with a knot at the top. Then they basically could have just tossed the string down the hole too and whenver they wanted to retrieve the bucket, then all they would have to do is use another fishing pole with a lure on the end with hooks and just slowly lower the lure down the hole until it snagged on the line and reel the line back to the top of hole, and PRESTO, they now have the end of the line to pull the bucket back up.

The only thing with where they finally found it is it doesnt make sense just leaving the bucket at the spot where ginseng hunters found it but perhaps they were going to retrieve her again the next day OR maybe they heard a car coming and had to get out of there fast. I am thinking they were going to ultimately go back and get that bucket again and just missed their opportunity before the ginseng hunters found it.
OR maybe since they were in prison someone else moved her this last time and didnt do a good job like they used to.

I do think she was moved at least once and perhaps back + forth a couple times. The fishing line method would make it easy to retrieve that bucket from bottom of the deep well. Just use another fishing pole with a lure to snag the line and reel it up to where you can use your hands to pull up the main fishing line attached to bucket handle
all JMO of course.

I'm inclined to believe that the remains were moved, too, and considering that the body was first hidden in the well. But, I've struggled with that theory for the same reason. At first, they would be hiding a body. If the body had skeletonized by the time it was moved to a new location, how would the remains be removed from a well? Would the perps have placed the body in a case which they could retrieve with a pulley, much like you describe, Hatfield.

The problem I had with that idea was that it would be risky: LE was wanting to search land; the remains would've been easily discovered if still attached to something above ground. I don't think they considered moving the body once it was in the first location (the well?); or maybe they did, knowing that LE may search the Adams' land. The perps most likely would have moved the remains once they were confident searches were finished at the second location (where the remains were found).

If the perps tried moving a skeleton from a well, there would be no way for them to retrieve every bone, unless the body were enclosed in a container. I believe there was something on the Adams' property that convinced LE that Holly was deceased and they seemed to focus on the well. Maybe they did find bone fragments there. Or, maybe it's where someone directed LE because they knew where the body was initially concealed. I think it will be important to determine whether the remains were moved because among other charges, the DA would want to tack on abuse of a corpse. Also, people who were not involved in Holly's abduction and murder may have been involved in moving her remains, which could be where additional arrests occur.

I wonder if the reason the prison in Chester County isn't equipped to handle someone like ZA long-term is that he has been combative and needs a more secure facility. I wonder if he's been making any more threats? If LE anticipate making additional arrests soon, they probably want to keep the others separated from ZA in hopes they will talk if they had a lesser part in this and are not intimidated.

 

[Foxfire]

IMHO, I don't think we have enough evidence at our disposal to conclude that the body was moved. Just because the area was searched doesn't mean the body wasn't there. The guy who owns the land said he saw tons of people back there searching, but they mostly searched other areas closer to the road and didn't go back in that far. Remember the Cayleee Anthony case? Her body was 20 feet from the road, Roy Kronk called police half a dozen times about the remains, like 100+ people searched the area and it still somehow wasn't found. There are 215 acres of deep woods on Gary Tubbs' property. That's a lot of land to search thoroughly.

Respectfully disagree, Bali. Yes, remains are sometimes missed on initial searches. There has been 4 turkey, squirrel, ginseng, and 3 deer hunting seasons in the three plus years since Holly Bobo was abducted on 04/13/2011.. It would be reasonable to conclude that the landowner, a hunter, or other outdoors person would have located the remains due to the presence of the plastic bucket, imo..

 

[Bali]

I'm inclined to believe that the remains were moved, too, and considering that the body was first hidden in the well. But, I've struggled with that theory for the same reason. At first, they would be hiding a body. If the body had skeletonized by the time it was moved to a new location, how would the remains be removed from a well? Would the perps have placed the body in a case which they could retrieve with a pulley, much like you describe, Hatfield.

The problem I had with that idea was that it would be risky: LE was wanting to search land; the remains would've been easily discovered if still attached to something above ground. I don't think they considered moving the body once it was in the first location (the well?); or maybe they did, knowing that LE may search the Adams' land. The perps most likely would have moved the remains once they were confident searches were finished at the second location (where the remains were found).

If the perps tried moving a skeleton from a well, there would be no way for them to retrieve every bone, unless the body were enclosed in a container. I believe there was something on the Adams' property that convinced LE that Holly was deceased and they seemed to focus on the well. Maybe they did find bone fragments there. Or, maybe it's where someone directed LE because they knew where the body was initially concealed. I think it will be important to determine whether the remains were moved because among other charges, the DA would want to tack on abuse of a corpse. Also, people who were not involved in Holly's abduction and murder may have been involved in moving her remains, which could be where additional arrests occur.

^That's a good point about trying to remove every bone. They did a REALLY thorough search of ZA's property and they haven't revealed any evidence found there. I think they would've found evidence if the body was on the property. Bodies are hard to move once they've decomposed.

As far as finding bones on his property...I doubt they found anything. I guess we'll find out when the trial rolls around, but the cases I've studied in the past, I have yet to find one where they found smoking gun evidence and chose to not release that to the media in favor of releasing more speculative stuff or eyewitness stuff. I don't think they found bones. Prosecutors release this evidence to taint the jury pool to make the case easier to win. It's a pretty predictable thing. The fact that they haven't done so yet makes me think they don't have anything more than witness testimony.

 

[Bali]

Respectfully disagree, Bali. Yes, remains are sometimes missed on initial searches. There has been 4 turkey, squirrel, ginseng, and 3 deer hunting seasons in the three plus years since Holly Bobo was abducted on 04/13/2011.. It would be reasonable to conclude that the landowner, a hunter, or other outdoors person would have located the remains due to the presence of the plastic bucket, imo..

Meh...there's lots of debris in the woods. People wouldn't necessarily upturn a bucket if they see it. We know these are heavy woods. Things can be covered by brush. Until we have more evidence. the "moved" theory is just that: a theory. Hopefully they'll go through all this at trial and we can get some solid answers!

 

[oldwindow]

@bali . Not really a dead end , phones today are better than before when thing likes phablets( phone /tablets hybrids) on the market. It a real game breaker, it pin pint direct it ha nothing to do with the tower just where the phone is... Not trend to far off topic.

It also depend on how LE use it yes agree it can used in the wrong fashion. Me personally I wouldn't base the whole case around a ping. Jury and the judge need things that they can touch, things that are real for example the skull... you have create beyond a doubt. you can do that with skull better than a ping.. pings can play a part in that but not all of it. It would be a waste of time to do so.

In small they have to be smart with it. the defense can try to counter it, then again it comes down who plays the 1st hand. I assume they already have a person who's all ready telling everything and will do time within this crime. Its not really about what happened, its just about time of death.. IN my small opinion, I'd take that route, it easier to do with a person who is going do actual time for the crime and help say things also finding this young girl skull.

That's hard' to beat.. If these other guys try to deny it perjury. Again hard to beat.

 

[Suthrnqt]

^That's a good point about trying to remove every bone. They did a REALLY thorough search of ZA's property and they haven't revealed any evidence found there. I think they would've found evidence if the body was on the property. Bodies are hard to move once they've decomposed.

As far as finding bones on his property...I doubt they found anything. I guess we'll find out when the trial rolls around, but the cases I've studied in the past, I have yet to find one where they found smoking gun evidence and chose to not release that to the media in favor of releasing more speculative stuff or eyewitness stuff. I don't think they found bones. Prosecutors release this evidence to taint the jury pool to make the case easier to win. It's a pretty predictable thing. The fact that they haven't done so yet makes me think they don't have anything more than witness testimony.

IMHO, evidence was found during the thorough search of Adams' property. It had to be something pretty significant to convince the Bobo's that Holly was deceased.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Items more subtle and innocuous than buckets have been traced to the store they were purchased from and who was the buyer. And I am talking about big cities, not small communities with just a handful of stores to check out.

The bucket (if it is part of the crime scene where remains were found) is the one piece of evidence that does not belong to Holly Bobo (other than the mythical duct tape). The bucket could represent a very significant slip-up by the perpetrator(s).

Just saying.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Another use for a bucket: you fill it with rocks and with rope attachments use it to weigh someone down, under water. At least for awhile.

Sleuth On!

 

[Tugela]

IMHO, evidence was found during the thorough search of Adams' property. It had to be something pretty significant to convince the Bobo's that Holly was deceased.

I don't think they necessarily found anything in that search. It is plausible that the charges are based on the claims of the two informants. In that sense they corroborate each other, but, because the individuals making the claims are receiving (or were promised) special treatment in unrelated cases, they will need other evidence to corroborate the claims. I am guessing they were hoping to find such evidence in the searches but did not.

When they got the report of the video supposedly showing Holly they jumped on that and charged people even though there was no evidence beyond what the witness claimed to have seen. That seems a weird thing for a prosecutor to do, and it implies a hail mary attempt to get any sort of corroboration for their two initial witnesses. IMO they don't have any corroboration yet.

ZA was charged with witness interfering (again, based on the allegation of another prisoner). This might seem like a flimsy charge, but IMO the reason they proceeded with it was to establish evidence of an attempt to conceal and therefore knowledge of guilt. Again, it implies that they lack physical evidence and were trying to weave a case out of a series of informant claims. This particular charge will come back to bite them on the butt however, since the state of the body when found apparently did not match the supposed state of the body as per this witness. It undermines the credibility of the witness, and consequently the discovery of Holly's body has probably removed one of the evidence threads supporting the DA's case.

 

[runningwater]

Has ZA detoxed from that drug he was using? Meth? I don't know anything about Meth but is it like Heroin detox where the person gets sick and goes thru DT's?
Perhaps he is going wacky in that jail and they had to move him to a more secure jail.
Ya Think?
TIA

 

[Hatfield]

IMHO, I don't think we have enough evidence at our disposal to conclude that the body was moved. Just because the area was searched doesn't mean the body wasn't there. The guy who owns the land said he saw tons of people back there searching, but they mostly searched other areas closer to the road and didn't go back in that far. Remember the Cayleee Anthony case? Her body was 20 feet from the road, Roy Kronk called police half a dozen times about the remains, like 100+ people searched the area and it still somehow wasn't found. There are 215 acres of deep woods on Gary Tubbs' property. That's a lot of land to search thoroughly.

JMO
There may not be enough solid evidence just yet however there appears to be circumstantial evidence developing. The main circumstantial evidence is ZA making incriminating threat to his brother about "being in the hole next to her". And as 1 article mentioned there are 2 wells close to each other on his property and 1 is deep.

Also, if the recent article is true that an overturned bucket was covering or near the remains, it seems very unlikely someone would not have seen that till now since I think some of the recent articles also mentioned it was not far off the logging trail and only 300 yards from a main road of an area that was previously searched.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm inclined to believe that the remains were moved, too, and considering that the body was first hidden in the well. But, I've struggled with that theory for the same reason. At first, they would be hiding a body. If the body had skeletonized by the time it was moved to a new location, how would the remains be removed from a well? Would the perps have placed the body in a case which they could retrieve with a pulley, much like you describe, Hatfield.

The problem I had with that idea was that it would be risky: LE was wanting to search land; the remains would've been easily discovered if still attached to something above ground. I don't think they considered moving the body once it was in the first location (the well?); or maybe they did, knowing that LE may search the Adams' land. The perps most likely would have moved the remains once they were confident searches were finished at the second location (where the remains were found).

If the perps tried moving a skeleton from a well, there would be no way for them to retrieve every bone, unless the body were enclosed in a container. I believe there was something on the Adams' property that convinced LE that Holly was deceased and they seemed to focus on the well. Maybe they did find bone fragments there. Or, maybe it's where someone directed LE because they knew where the body was initially concealed. I think it will be important to determine whether the remains were moved because among other charges, the DA would want to tack on abuse of a corpse. Also, people who were not involved in Holly's abduction and murder may have been involved in moving her remains, which could be where additional arrests occur.

I wonder if the reason the prison in Chester County isn't equipped to handle someone like ZA long-term is that he has been combative and needs a more secure facility. I wonder if he's been making any more threats? If LE anticipate making additional arrests soon, they probably want to keep the others separated from ZA in hopes they will talk if they had a lesser part in this and are not intimidated.

Good Points.
I agree at first they probably never intended to move her and only after it became national news and the heat really turned up they probably realized their "brilliant" idea wasnt so brilliant after all. If the bucket was involved, it may have been used as a collection device and then once in that bucket, it could be easily transferred to another location and perhaps even back to the well once the perps thought LE would never look there again after already searching it.

We do have that other person who tried to get a plea deal who also seemed very surprised she was not in the location he told LE to look.

It just seems to me that attempts were made to transfer her from 1 spot to another, and perhaps multiple transfers. I would not be surprised at all if we hear of another bucket being found somewhere else at some point.

I suppose we may have to wait till trial and hopefully all the facts will come out.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm still kind of wondering how good LE was able to search the deep wells on ZA property.

If LE identified 1 specific well and if LE managed to retrieve small bits of evidence from it, then one good way to do a thorough search of it would be to drill a 2nd well alongside of it.
Once down to the same depth with the 2nd well, then a horizontal shaft can be drilled to the target well and a thorough search of the bottom of it can be made.

This method has been used to rescue a small child from a well that the child fell into. People may remember that case from years ago. I think it may have been in Texas.

I would hope LE would do this sort of thing if they have pin pointed a certain well on the property. As others have indicated there may be more evidence to uncover. And perhaps not just more bones but critical evidence items such as a gun, knife, rope, etc that may have been used in the crime.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Zachary Adams, suspect in Holly Bobo murder case transferred to Williamson County

Decatur County District Attorney Matt Stowe tells WSMV, they made the request to transfer Adams from the Chester County jail yesterday.

Stowe went on to say that Adams was too much of a burden on the jail staff, describing Adams as a high risk inmate.

and

Stowe says it could be up to 18 months before a trial begins, and Williamson County has a much better facility.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/26529055/...er-case-transferred-to-williamson-county-jail

1st RBBM: WOW ... Just saw the latest news about ZA.

No doubt he is, and will continue to be, a serious problem ...


Remember back in June the trouble ZA was causing in :jail:

Holly Bobo Suspect Charged In Jail Altercation

CHESTER COUNTY, Tenn. – One of the suspects in the disappearance of nursing student Holly Bobo has been charged with assault in an altercation with three jail officers.

A report from the Chester County Sheriff's Office said Zachary Adams was being moved to a specialized jail cell on June 13 after he made suicidal comments, "specifically to throw himself from the highest point to which he could climb in his cell."


Link: http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/265234121.html


2nd RBBM: 18 months for trial ?

:gaah: I just don't think I can wait that long !


:moo:

 

[OldSteve]

JMO
I too think the remains must have been moved at least once and maybe even moved back and forth. I am also starting to think the deep well of the 2 wells mentioned may have been where her remains were hidden.

One thing that I couldnt figure out is if she was placed at the bottom of the deeper well , then how would they get her back out to move remains. I just now thought of a way it could be done. Enter bucket. If they would have tied fishing line to that bucket and lowered down into the deep well, then its possible they could have retrieved her back up by just pulling the bucket back up by the fishing line.

But of course they would not want LE to see the fishing line if they searched the well, so was wondering how they may have accomplished that. Then I realized all they had to do is loop enough line through the bucket handle and tie it in a knot at the end so that it really is 2 strings going all the way down with a knot at the top. Then they basically could have just tossed the string down the hole too and whenver they wanted to retrieve the bucket, then all they would have to do is use another fishing pole with a lure on the end with hooks and just slowly lower the lure down the hole until it snagged on the line and reel the line back to the top of hole, and PRESTO, they now have the end of the line to pull the bucket back up.

The only thing with where they finally found it is it doesnt make sense just leaving the bucket at the spot where ginseng hunters found it but perhaps they were going to retrieve her again the next day OR maybe they heard a car coming and had to get out of there fast. I am thinking they were going to ultimately go back and get that bucket again and just missed their opportunity before the ginseng hunters found it.
OR maybe since they were in prison someone else moved her this last time and didnt do a good job like they used to.

I do think she was moved at least once and perhaps back + forth a couple times. The fishing line method would make it easy to retrieve that bucket from bottom of the deep well. Just use another fishing pole with a lure to snag the line and reel it up to where you can use your hands to pull up the main fishing line attached to bucket handle
all JMO of course.

Agree about what I respectfully BBM.
It would go along with the rule-of-three of perps instinctively alternating leaving belongings on land and victim in water, and vice-versa.
Wonder if forensics can tell if remains had one been in water...

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From the Jackson Sun:

Zachary Adams moved to Williamson County Jail
September 14, 2014

"This was a procedural move several weeks in the works to a facility with more resources and manpower," DeVine said. "It has nothing to do with any specific development in the case."


Link: http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/new...-adams-moved-williamson-county-jail/15645107/


BBM:

JMO and MOO ... but I do not believe this to be a "coincidence" ...

One week ago, Holly's remains were found, and then one week later, ZA just happens to be transferred to another "facility with more resources and manpower" ...

JMO and MOO ...

I wonder IF he was sending threats like he did to his brother DA ?

I wonder IF he went cray cray when he heard about the remains that were found ?

I think that something happened when ZA found out about Holly's remains being identified ... and he lost it ...

All JMO and :moo:

 

[Bali]

Has ZA detoxed from that drug he was using? Meth? I don't know anything about Meth but is it like Heroin detox where the person gets sick and goes thru DT's?
Perhaps he is going wacky in that jail and they had to move him to a more secure jail.
Ya Think?
TIA

He's been in jail for like six months, I'm pretty sure that's enough time for him to be pretty well detoxed. ZA is just a nut job. I'm not entirely certain yet that he's good for this specific crime, but he's a dangerous and troubled individual. I don't think we need to delve too far into why he's acting the way he's acting. It appear to me that he's acting this way because that's just his personality. He was probably moved because of behavior issues.

 

[wendybtn]

I remember the day I first heard about this beautiful young lady. I just knew it was going to be bad. But I am so glad they found her. I was beginning to think they never would. RIP Holly. Condolences to the family.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I remember the day I first heard about this beautiful young lady. I just knew it was going to be bad. But I am so glad they found her. I was beginning to think they never would. RIP Holly. Condolences to the family.

:seeya: Hello and Welcome !


:welcome2:

 

[Bali]

I don't think they necessarily found anything in that search. It is plausible that the charges are based on the claims of the two informants. In that sense they corroborate each other, but, because the individuals making the claims are receiving (or were promised) special treatment in unrelated cases, they will need other evidence to corroborate the claims. I am guessing they were hoping to find such evidence in the searches but did not.

When they got the report of the video supposedly showing Holly they jumped on that and charged people even though there was no evidence beyond what the witness claimed to have seen. That seems a weird thing for a prosecutor to do, and it implies a hail mary attempt to get any sort of corroboration for their two initial witnesses. IMO they don't have any corroboration yet.

ZA was charged with witness interfering (again, based on the allegation of another prisoner). This might seem like a flimsy charge, but IMO the reason they proceeded with it was to establish evidence of an attempt to conceal and therefore knowledge of guilt. Again, it implies that they lack physical evidence and were trying to weave a case out of a series of informant claims. This particular charge will come back to bite them on the butt however, since the state of the body when found apparently did not match the supposed state of the body as per this witness. It undermines the credibility of the witness, and consequently the discovery of Holly's body has probably removed one of the evidence threads supporting the DA's case.

The thing about the video...I think they're really kicking themselves for acting so quickly on that. There are so many red flags on that one. If there was a video, they would've found it already. If there was a link between the Pearcy brothers and the two other suspects, they would've found it already. I was especially suspicious when Mark Pearcy "failed to be available" for his hearing. This is a big case, they could've gotten him there if they wanted. I think they hadn't found the video yet, were terrified that the judge would dismiss the charges, so were doing this to force a continuance.

Based on everything, I don't think they have any physical evidence yet. The fact that her parents thought she was deceased...I'm certain Holly's parents accepted her death a long time ago, well before there was a suspect. It's very unlikely that a missing person will turn up alive, and especially after we know there was a violent altercation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're innocent. But there are many criminal cases which revolve solely around snitch testimony and zero physical evidence. This has all the hallmarks of one of them.