HOW does the State Prove it was not George?

[Donjeta]

He's really meticulous about his cars if he invests in new brakes for a car he knows will be soon unusable due to deathly stink.

 

[Studio_Medic]

:waitasec:
What tragic accident did Drew Peterson cover up?

He covered up a murder to look like an accident.

Ok I will agree with you on that but what I was trying to say was in response to
"A cop wouldn't have even tried to cover up a tragic accident".......just saying that not everyone who is in law enforcement is to be trusted.

I am have been in EMS for over 27 years and I have seen a lot of dishonesty from law enforcement and EMS as well........Just because someone wears a badge doesn't make then anymore honest, morally or ethically right than you or I.

 

[Studio_Medic]

Would they check for *that* kind of abuse? I'm sure they would check the skin and bones for bruising and breakage, but would a child's drowning bring on a check for molestation? If they found fluid in her lungs, no significant bruising, no broken bones, no suspicious medical history, and the family's stories matched and didn't seem to conflict with the evidence...would they automatically check for sexual abuse if every other sign pointed to accidental drowning?

If the child is hidden, sure they can't check for child abuse, but they sure can check for what family members might have had something to do with the disappearance. If GA feared ICA reporting his supposed abuse, wouldn't he think ICA would report it if the police came around checking on Caylee's whereabouts? He would have to know that Cindy, totally out of the loop and desperately wondering what happened to her grandchild, would eventually do something to trigger an investigation. And if he told ICA to get out of the house and go into hiding, he would have no way to know whether or not she might go to the police.

ETA: I'm kind of enjoying hashing this out and all of us trying to counter anything the DT might try to claim.

As someone who has participated in several autopsies including those of children. Regardless of manner of death, the body is thoroughly examined from head to toe detecting any abnormalities along the way. The genitals and anal region are also visually inspected for any signs of injuries. If a child had "tearing" or any signs that may lead the ME to suspect child abuse, it would be noted in the ME's report and Child Protection Services along with the proper police jurisdiction would be immediately notified.

 

[Donjeta]

Ok I will agree with you on that but what I was trying to say was in response to
"A cop wouldn't have even tried to cover up a tragic accident".......just saying that not everyone who is in law enforcement is to be trusted.

I am have been in EMS for over 27 years and I have seen a lot of dishonesty from law enforcement and EMS as well........Just because someone wears a badge doesn't make then anymore honest, morally or ethically right than you or I.

JMO but I think the point of "a cop wouldn't" wasn't about trust, it wasn't that all cops are too honest to do that, it was more that covering up an accident would be a really stupid thing to do and even more so if you're a cop and know how crimes get investigated and solved.

Quoting coloradoteacher, where I think this train of thought started from:

it comes down to this: if the original reason he covered up the crime was to protect ICA from getting arrested for child neglect, would he really sit by and not do anything when she was charged with murder, told the SA would seek the DP AND sat in jail for 3 years? It just defies common sense.
And I haven't even gotten into his knowing of CPR, his knowledge of evidence from being a cop (a cop would not let a dead body sit in a trunk for that long OR use materials from their house OR dump their precious grandchild's body a block and a half from their home. He would have put her body where it would have been never found- including RK.
It think there is PLENTY of evidence that it is not GA. JMOO

Of course there maybe cops who are stupid as well as dishonest but I think we can safely say that GA didn't cover up the tragic drowning accident in order to save Casey from child neglect charges by putting Caylee's body in her trunk to decompose. He'd have to know he was begging for more trouble, not avoiding any.

 

[Studio_Medic]

JMO but I think the point of "a cop wouldn't" wasn't about trust, it wasn't that all cops are too honest to do that, it was more that covering up an accident would be a really stupid thing to do and even more so if you're a cop and know how crimes get investigated and solved.

Quoting coloradoteacher, where I think this train of thought started from:



Of course there maybe cops who are stupid as well as dishonest but I think we can safely say that GA didn't cover up the tragic drowning accident in order to save Casey from child neglect charges by putting Caylee's body in her trunk to decompose. He'd have to know he was begging for more trouble, not avoiding any.

I agree I don't think any of us think that GA covered it up......I think we all know who the real culprit is, but we need to be prepared for the DT theories as silly as they may seem. All they have to do is create reasonable doubt in just one juror and it's over.

 

[Trident]

main thing imo is why would GA cover up an accident drowning for ICA? what does he have to gain by that? and in the process cover it up but make it look like ICA did it? makes no sense to me. even *if* he really did sexually abuse her it makes no sense that he would do this. not to mention the amount of time and money he put into looking for caylee.

And I have to ask why GA would stage a fake suicide - he didn't take the pills, did he? - but it seems he got a few days out of the heat and the "suicide" notes to the proper authorities. Did we ever get to read those "suicide" notes?

No, the SA does not have to defend GA, but in my opinion, ICA is not the only person with access to the computer, the car, the tape, and the laundry bags.

I ain't saying GA did it, but I believe JB will be able to plant reasonable doubt if he goes after him.

My opinion only

 

[Trident]

I agree I don't think any of us think that GA covered it up......I think we all know who the real culprit is, but we need to be prepared for the DT theories as silly as they may seem. All they have to do is create reasonable doubt in just one juror and it's over.

Exactly :clap:

 

[stmarysmead]

The story Baez told...in his opening statement...has some real problems. The first being...that although he has isolated Casey from her parents for a very long time, and although she has known for years that she faces the Death Penalty...these accusations against George were only revealed...yes, Folks...in his opening statement!!

Huh?

Furthermore through Tony’s account and Casey’s own jailhouse letters, we can see a proven Liar fine-tuning her craft. “I think he...hit me. No, I think MAYBE he....touched me...NO WAIT...he raped me...since I was...UMMMM..eight years old!

She was so traumatized but...she doesn’t really KNOW?

The Prosecution can remind the Jury of the tutelage in the Art of Lying that we all received through Cindy’s recitations of Casey’s ever-morphing excuses during the 31 days. The truth is not an option with Casey. Caught in a lie that she has Caylee with her...she tells Cindy she is up in Jacksonville trying to rekindle love with her non-existent Trust Fund Beau. Seen by George in the Anthony home...she tells Cindy that she has morphed into Clara Barton, caring for a sick Zanny up in Jacksonville. The Prosecution only needs to remind the jury what a determined and resourceful Liar Casey is. Oops, the Zanny story is collapsing...what now? What now? All those partying pictures are a problem. Hmmm...How to explain all the great sexy times I had? Hmmm... Oh wait...Dad molested me! That’s it! I’ll go with that!

The model for Casey’s morphing Lies is already in evidence.

Another problem with the Baez story is that if he tries to paint Caylee as another victim of George’s pedophilia...then Casey KNEW her child was being abused and allowed it. Here's why:

In his opening statement, Baez does not say Casey caught George abusing Caylee. No, he says that George found a dead Caylee in the pool. So if Casey wants to testify to George abusing Caylee...the abuse had to be something she knew of BEFORE...and rather than get a job...Casey aided and abetted the abuse...even leaving Caylee with the Abuser so she could party. So if Casey tries THAT LIE...essentially she was a CO-ABUSER.

She had no job...so she NEVER had a reason of any kind...not one single pathetic weasel excuse..to leave her Baby with a Abuser so she could party. And if she testifies to Caylee being abused by George...by Baez own theory...SHE KNEW before the drowning!

Furthermore, if she insists on this “Dad Did It’ Hoax...her jailhouse letters of sweet empathy and compassion to her jailhouse friend should be brought in. For three years , Miss Compassion would have participated in this scam with George and tortured her own Mother...and everyone that loved Caylee. Where is the compassion she shows to her Jail-house Buddy “problems”...for all the people searching for her Baby...or her own Family? Sometimes she feels things and sometimes she doesn’t? Let her explain her reasoning for leaving her Baby ONE SINGLE TIME..with her alleged Abuser when her life included NO JOB..NO RESPONSIBILITIES..just one lazy lie after the other!

She will be decimated by her own trap if Baez goes down that road. The Jury will have one of two choices. Disbelieve her...and see her for the soul-less, vindictive Liar she is. Or believe her...and see her as such a lazy self-involved cruel excuse for a Mother...that she willingly provided her Molester Father with her own daughter as his next victim...while she partied.

 

[doubt]

That is exactly why the DT will fine tune their story a bit. We have seen already that they have been leaving little clues implying George was framing Casey.

WHY would he do that if he was truly covering for her? I think they are planning another bombshell, blindsiding opening for their Case In Chief. And they are going to get ugly with George. It was NOT an accident at all, and George was in charge of the whole evil event. And he was blaming it all on poor little Casey.And she has been sitting in 'protection' and not prison all of this time.

i remember the very first reporting on this case and i genuinely wanted to believe that casey anthony was not guilty. what we want and what we get are not always the same, however.

i think chances are good that the DT will at least attempt to go the route mentioned above. i'll be curious to see how that plays with the judge given they've already claimed the death was an accident.....in a way, indirectly blaming ca which i found reprehensible. i think that point has been overlooked to a degree but i would bet the jury was offended by it. ca may be many things but to claim she would leave the ladder out of place and that said action caused caylee's accidental drowning was simply jb's way of calling her her stupid and irresponsible in regard to caylee's welfare. big mistake.

i do not believe ga had a thing to do with caylee's death, covering up her death, hiding her body....anything. nor do i believe he was a sick pervert bent on molesting only his daughter and then her daughter and no other young female in between. for one thing, if that were true, i would expect to hear angry voicemails left by ga for casey, demanding she bring caylee so he could have time with her. further, if casey was but a timid, frightened, abused victim of ga, she'd have complied. if there is one thing casey anthony never, ever did, it was comply with somebody else who asked her to do what she didn't want to do.

at the moment, i believe the abuse claims are a crock. this woman looks her supposed abuser in the eye and tells him what a great father and grandfather he's been. plus, she greets him with an "i look like crap" and a chuckle, bringing attention to her body and physical appearance. not a chance an abuse victim would do that imo she's too confident in the presence of ga for this allegation to fly. not once do i see her appear meek or forced. she doesn't stutter or stumble or hesitate. quite to the contrary, she's extremely poised and well-spoken. she's got a strong vocabulary and a self-assured manner and it doesn't waiver in the slightest when ga enters the scene. i actually think it was her delivery that allowed her to get away with the lies for most of her life. but i also think her delivery will be her downfall.

the idea that an innocent young woman, wrongly imprisoned for the murder of her daughter, knowing her abusive father is actually the guilty party, and knowing he is now framing her for his latest crime......would ever greet said monster-abuser-murdering-framing father from the locked side of a jailhouse phone booth with even a shred of composure.....well, the idea simply defies belief.

all is moo...

 

[Whisperer]

From the facts presented, it is not reasonable to assume GA did it. This is exactly my gripe with the term "Reasonable Doubt". People consistently get it confused with "Beyond the shadow of a a doubt. I hope the jurors don't do this and slip GA in their heads as a perp. It is to be expected to have doubts in any case presented butthe question is, is your doubt reasonable in this case? IMO, no.

Where did the term "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" originate? Mr. Baez would like everyone to take that stance and that is what he is hanging his hat on. For every doubt you have about ICA not being the perp, ask yourself is this thought a reasonable one? Then refresh yourself using Dr. G's words. She explained the concept "reasonable doubt" very well, w/o using the term.

 

[cmsg2002]

I think Casey herself will, In all her glory.
They also have computer expert of their own I believe, to discuss his Escort Services hits ion the computer.

And members of the family and friends will discuss his affairs and his gambling and lying, and volatile temper. imo/

Only someone with direct knowledge of any alleged affairs would be able to testify about this....and the only people who could do this would be George himself, Cindy, and any of George's mistresses. Casey herself couldn't even testify to this if it was something she was told, even if it was by Cindy.
I don't see that happening.

and the bigger point is that the DT's theory is not reasonable to believe, and that is the key here. it must be reasonable doubt...and I don't think their bizarre, far-fetched theory is going to do that for them.

 

[Trident]

From the facts presented, it is not reasonable to assume GA did it. This is exactly my gripe with the term "Reasonable Doubt". People consistently get it confused with "Beyond the shadow of a a doubt. I hope the jurors don't do this and slip GA in their heads as a perp. It is to be expected to have doubts in any case presented butthe question is, is your doubt reasonable? IMO, no.

Where did the term "Beyond a shadow of a doubt" originate? Mr. Baez would like everyone to take that stance and that is what he is hanging his hat on. For every doubt you have about ICA not being the perp, ask yourself is this thought a reasonable one? Then refresh yourself using Dr. G's words. She explained reasonable doubt w/o using the term.

ITA with your post. However, I do have a doubt that ICA was the only one having access to duct tape, car, laundry bag, computer, and whatever else, even the Winnie The Pooh blanket and the "bear" CA was sleeping with. To me that DOUBT is REASONABLE. Is it not?

My opinion only

 

[Whisperer]

ITA with your post. However, I do have a doubt that ICA was the only one having access to duct tape, car, laundry bag, computer, and whatever else, even the Winnie The Pooh blanket and the "bear" CA was sleeping with. To me that DOUBT is REASONABLE. Is it not?

My opinion only

Is it reasonable for one to assume that because we know there were other people living, visiting, repairing, vacationing, washing anything in that household and having access to the items named, killed Caylee giving the facts presented in this case?

The facts presented thus far don't leave any wiggle room to doubt ICA as the one responsible for her daughter's demise.

 

[Marple]

If I were on the jury and I watched them continuing to torture the grandparents by accusing them of wrongdoing, it would backfire big time on their client. It's clear to me that GA and CA loved Caylee and were basically mother and father to Caylee. The more the DT talks smack about GA and CA, the more I dislike KC for putting her parents through this. IMHO, of course.

 

[Tuffy]

Wasn't there a FBpost or Myspace from Amy saying "you took my duct tape?" If so, why in the world didn't the SA admit that into evidence?

Take care, Robin

I turned out not to be the same type of tape found on Caylee.

 

[Whisperer]

ITA with your post. However, I do have a doubt that ICA was the only one having access to duct tape, car, laundry bag, computer, and whatever else, even the Winnie The Pooh blanket and the "bear" CA was sleeping with. To me that DOUBT is REASONABLE. Is it not?

My opinion only

It is normal to have doubts. Is the doubt reasonable given the facts presented? The answer is no. It is not reasonable to assume that SODDI idea at this stage of the case. Nothing has been introduced by either side to come to that conclusion.

 

[Tuffy]

ITA with your post. However, I do have a doubt that ICA was the only one having access to duct tape, car, laundry bag, computer, and whatever else, even the Winnie The Pooh blanket and the "bear" CA was sleeping with. To me that DOUBT is REASONABLE. Is it not?

My opinion only

No, it not reasonable when you take into account the evidence in Casey's car, and the fact that Casey, and Casey alone was the last one with Caylee. She kept the car with the decomp, and Caylee's whereabouts away from the rest of the occupants of the house for 31 days after Caylee was last seen.

In my mind, that narrows it down to only one of the three occupants of that house.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

It appears that the main defense strategy will be GEORGE DID IT. And Kronk helped at the end. And Cindy left the ladder up...

They are even going to imply that George is framing Casey because he was abusing Caylee and did not want to be exposed, imo.

So does the state have any solid evidence that can prove his innocence and her guilt?

Their 'evidence' :

George had control of the duct tape.

He had keys to the Pontiac.

He had access to all of the burial items.

He knew about the burial site.

He attempted suicide.

He did not call LE when he left the tow yard.

He had no response when he first 'learned' about Caylee being missing.

He went secretly to LE and gave incriminating evidence about Casey.

Casey has all the symptoms of abuse survivor.

You know, I take great offense at this murder trial is turning into a George Anthony trial and I only hope the jurors feel the same way.

ICA is not taking responsibility in Caylee's death at all...she laid it right in GA's lap and somehow, RK took control of Caylee's remains, held on to them until December 11, 2008 because he is morally bankrupt? This is what ICA is, IMO...for her to even suggest her father send her on her merry way while he took care of Caylee's remains...he set his daughter up on charges that could put her to death??? It just doesn't have any ring of truth...I also don't believe this alleged drowning...one call to 911 and ICA might not have faced any charges...why the need for duct tape? She had every opportunity to tell the truth...but that darned duct tape...doesn't show accident...I only hope those jurors feel the same...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[Whisperer]

No one knows how much I worry about that term "Reasonable Doubt". I have seen people on juries nod their heads "yes" when asked if they understand it. Dollars to donuts they are thinking "Beyone the shadow of a doubt" and don't understand the term. I would like to see a test given or a class given to prospective jurors on this important issue.

Defendents have walked on the charges due to a juror or two not grasping the concept.

 

[imawitch]

I really dont have anything to add that hasnt already been said eh?

my thought is, no way did GA kill Caylee, or hide her body.. I mean, the LE talked to everyone in the family and if the LE even had a thought of ga hurting or killing caylee, they would have arrested him,jmo

casey is a cold hearted monster,mo