How will Jaycee heal?

[songline]

could be a glitch in her recovery or could give her closure she needs. given how strong jaycee has been thru the years to survive this, i''ll go with the latter
btw there's a prelim hearing oct 29th i think........

Thats true.

 

[Natal]

Thank God that it is a very long way off. Time is on her side
I think in a year or two from now "If the case goes to court"
at least she will be stronger, clearer, I think she has a great Lawyer.
Sadly enough no matter how far off it is - facing your abuser can be glitch in the recovery, take you back a bit.
I hope she never has to.

She is one amazing girl. Bless her heart.

Facing your abuser is an empowering experience. The problems come when the people who are supposed to be there to support you are not doing that and instead are following their own agenda.

 

[kbl8201]

Facing your abuser is an empowering experience. The problems come when the people who are supposed to be there to support you are not doing that and instead are following their own agenda.

you mean like bio-dad?

 

[songline]

you mean like bio-dad?

NO...she means The SOB in jail.

 

[songline]

I don't claim that she benefited from it.
From what I've read she says that because of it she was not exposed to things like
alcohol and drugs, and people and things that would
have been "bad influences."

I read that as well, but I think she would have been better off with cigarettes, and some alcohol...
I sure would take that any day over her horrific life.

 

[kbl8201]

NO...she means The SOB in jail.

song she said "the people that are there to support you are supporting there own agenda" that couldnt possibly be garrido and his wife she's referring to. so who exactly is she referring to?

 

[songline]

song she said "the people that are there to support you are supporting there own agenda" that couldnt possibly be garrido and his wife she's referring to. so who exactly is she referring to?

Going back to her original post that is not what I read:

This is what I read. Original post #162 to which I did reply.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4204332&postcount=162"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How will Jaycee heal?[/ame]
This is just an explanation:
sometimes when a victim is faced with an abuser, they have to have a support
team with them. Because it is certainly a very hard task.

I think she means that if the support is not there it is tough!
and if it is there it can be liberating. Yes she is talking about PG. and that is correct info.
If she meant something else - maybe she should clarify it for you.
_____________________

"People here on the boards supporting their own agenda"
I did not see that but it would mean to me;
they are dealing with their own case, talking out of their very personal filter.

All people have a filter/personal experiences from which they view life/people, etc.
FEW know the difference - and recognize when they are doing that, and when
they are being Open minded and truly objective. JMO

I am packing to leave town ...Bye.

 

[txsvicki]

Stephen, Like you said, it's just speculation and I am backing off of it. As for "reform" I'm not saying that's what I think. Again it was speculating about how Jaycee MIGHT feel. She has said that he hasn't touched her in years and it seems that she trusts him with her children and believes that he hasn't touched them. In the charges against the Garridos the only post 1997 charges are false imprisonment. Somebody who understands that better than me would have to say if that means there aren't any allegations that she hasn't been sexually assaulted since then.

Where are you hearing or reading things that Jaycee claimed PG hadn't assaulted her in years? I only read that he claimed that he regained an interest in his wife after the birth of the second girl. I figure that's only because there were no more underage girls around since Jaycee was about 18 at that time.

 

[Natal]

song she said "the people that are there to support you are supporting there own agenda" that couldnt possibly be garrido and his wife she's referring to. so who exactly is she referring to?

It's a general comment about people who have experienced trauma. What typically happens is that the people around them show the kinds of responses you see from many of the people posting here, which is to paraphrase a stereotypical reaction that they personally expect, when the traumatized person could be feeling something very different. This creates feelings of guilt and conflict in the victim, which is what does the real long term damage, not the trauma itself. It's the interaction with other people afterwards and what they say and do. The people that do this kind of thing don't intend to hurt the victim, but they do without realizing it.

True healing comes when the victim confronts the issue on their own terms and own pace, but they have to confront it. The people around them should only provide support for that goal, no second guessing, no preaching, no berating, no pushing, no making decisions on the victims behalf. Their role is to hold the victim up, not to carry them, because if they do they allways carry the victim to where THEY want to go, not where the victim wants to go. Metaphorically speaking, you can only carry yourself when you have the strength to stand up and the courage to be your own person, not someone else's puppet in a Grecian tradgedy.

A long time ago I used to be a teacher, and I discovered that the only way people truly learn is if they teach themselves, not if others do it for them. The true role of a teacher is to get that student to take that step, and discover what they can do. It is not what they do, but how they do it. This is not unlike that.

 

[jjenny]

AS if she had a choice?
I can just hear it
JC to the low life: "the girls are not going with you, you are a perv".:waitasec:

Agree with you. These children, by all accounts, had not been to a doctor or a dentist, had not gone to school, don't even have any proper documentation like social security or a birth certificate.
According to the police officer, one of them also had some strange growth on her face.
I can't believe someone would post "it seems she trusted Garrido with her children." What exactly could she have done if she didn't?

 

[kbl8201]

It's a general comment about people who have experienced trauma. What typically happens is that the people around them show the kinds of responses you see from many of the people posting here, which is to paraphrase a stereotypical reaction that they personally expect, when the traumatized person could be feeling something very different. This creates feelings of guilt and conflict in the victim, which is what does the real long term damage, not the trauma itself. It's the interaction with other people afterwards and what they say and do. The people that do this kind of thing don't intend to hurt the victim, but they do without realizing it.

True healing comes when the victim confronts the issue on their own terms and own pace, but they have to confront it. The people around them should only provide support for that goal, no second guessing, no preaching, no berating, no pushing, no making decisions on the victims behalf. Their role is to hold the victim up, not to carry them, because if they do they allways carry the victim to where THEY want to go, not where the victim wants to go. Metaphorically speaking, you can only carry yourself when you have the strength to stand up and the courage to be your own person, not someone else's puppet in a Grecian tradgedy.

A long time ago I used to be a teacher, and I discovered that the only way people truly learn is if they teach themselves, not if others do it for them. The true role of a teacher is to get that student to take that step, and discover what they can do. It is not what they do, but how they do it. This is not unlike that.

excellent post natal. yeah i know i dont usually agree with you.....and i know jaycee has the power to do it herself all the while having a great support team around her........

 

[songline]

Agree with you. These children, by all accounts, had not been to a doctor or a dentist, had not gone to school, don't even have any proper documentation like social security or a birth certificate.
According to the police officer, one of them also had some strange growth on her face.
I can't believe someone would post "it seems she trusted Garrido with her children." What exactly could she have done if she didn't?

jjennt I should have asked myself long ago
why do I bother to reply to some posts.
Must be too much time on my hands.... :blushing:

 

[kbl8201]

jjennt I should have asked myself long ago
why do I bother to reply to some posts.
Must be too much time on my hands.... :blushing:

have a great vacation song......hopefully ill still be sane when you get back

 

[Delrod]

Where are you hearing or reading things that Jaycee claimed PG hadn't assaulted her in years? I only read that he claimed that he regained an interest in his wife after the birth of the second girl. I figure that's only because there were no more underage girls around since Jaycee was about 18 at that time.

To txsvicki: What I said is Jaycee said pg hasn't touched her in years. It is widely reported in the media that Jaycee has told LE that he hasn't touched her in years and that her daughters have not been molested. A google search can easily locate those articles.

As for another statement I made about Jaycee trusts her daughters with PG, much to my regret I didn't express myself well and used terrible choice of wording. When someone commented on that statement I decided to leave the issue alone without commenting and let it die - but since it still comes up I will respond.
I did not mean to suggest that she had a choice in the matter or anything like that. What I meant was she had been held captive by those people for 18 years and been subjected to brainwashing and Stockholm syndrome. Because of what she has been through, of which one of the effects is Stockholm syndrome, She has emotionally bonded with them and according to her stepdad, saw it as like a marriage. If the reports about her saying her kids weren't molested or that Garrido hasn't touched her in years are true, then she evidently does believe he didn't do that even though he has probably had opportunity (could she have stopped him?) and may well have slept with them for years as he has claimed, as far as any of us knows.
While some of us might understand that Jaycee has psychologically done what was necessary for her survival I would imagine that she considers her emotions, feelings, and beliefs are very real and as valid as anyone else's and that SHE might very well feel resentment, hurt, or anger, that others view her "bonding" with the Garridos or any affection, sympathy, or attachment that she may well have for them to be some type of syndrome or brainwashing or somehow less valid or real than feelings a "normal" person would have. Along with that probably also comes guilt -as her stepfather has stated - and confusion.
I know that she has been through a horrible ordeal and dependent in ways on her captors and stockholm syndrome and brainwashing aree at work. And I also want to be sympathetic and supportive to her and not her have to go through any more pain and suffering or feeling like people are judging her.

The case of the Kampusch (spelling) woman in Germany has come up in threads about Jaycee. I don't remember exactly how she has put it, but she too has very ambivalent feelings and she has expressed that the reason she prefers not to go out in public much anymore is because it makes her feel like she has to be a certain way about what happened to her or be a certain way to satisfy other people and that it makes her less confident in who she is.
I could go on to try to clarify myself more or maybe I still come up short but I'll stop here

 

[kbl8201]

To txsvicki: What I said is Jaycee said pg hasn't touched her in years. It is widely reported in the media that Jaycee has told LE that he hasn't touched her in years and that her daughters have not been molested. A google search can easily locate those articles.

As for another statement I made about Jaycee trusts her daughters with PG, much to my regret I didn't express myself well and used terrible choice of wording. When someone commented on that statement I decided to leave the issue alone without commenting and let it die - but since it still comes up I will respond.
I did not mean to suggest that she had a choice in the matter or anything like that. What I meant was she had been held captive by those people for 18 years and been subjected to brainwashing and Stockholm syndrome. Because of what she has been through, of which one of the effects is Stockholm syndrome, She has emotionally bonded with them and according to her stepdad, saw it as like a marriage. If the reports about her saying her kids weren't molested or that Garrido hasn't touched her in years are true, then she evidently does believe he didn't do that even though he has probably had opportunity (could she have stopped him?) and may well have slept with them for years as he has claimed, as far as any of us knows.
While some of us might understand that Jaycee has psychologically done what was necessary for her survival I would imagine that she considers her emotions, feelings, and beliefs are very real and as valid as anyone else's and that SHE might very well feel resentment, hurt, or anger, that others view her "bonding" with the Garridos or any affection, sympathy, or attachment that she may well have for them to be some type of syndrome or brainwashing or somehow less valid or real than feelings a "normal" person would have. Along with that probably also comes guilt -as her stepfather has stated - and confusion.
I know that she has been through a horrible ordeal and dependent in ways on her captors and stockholm syndrome and brainwashing aree at work. And I also want to be sympathetic and supportive to her and not her have to go through any more pain and suffering or feeling like people are judging her.

The case of the Kampusch (spelling) woman in Germany has come up in threads about Jaycee. I don't remember exactly how she has put it, but she too has very ambivalent feelings and she has expressed that the reason she prefers not to go out in public much anymore is because it makes her feel like she has to be a certain way about what happened to her or be a certain way to satisfy other people and that it makes her less confident in who she is.
I could go on to try to clarify myself more or maybe I still come up short but I'll stop here[/QU

to me jaycee doesnt have to be anybody other then who she is. she' has earned the right to feel the way she does (whatever that is) no one that hasnt gone thru her shoes has the right to judge her.

on the part of "garrido not touching her in years" if that's true he still didnt let her go, or tell her family where she was.........is this 'the heart warming story" he talked about? not letting your rape victim go because you stopped raping her? yeah you sick freak...........i guess she just got too old for you to be intrested <puke> god i hope this guy gets knifed

 

[Natal]

I hope they will get a remote address like a farm outside the city where they can be free, and safe;
A farm with a guest house for staff; Guards, therapists, teachers.
Yes they will have the money for it.

That sounds like a prison to me. Doing something like that would be extremely destructive IMO, these girls need to learn to live a normal live, not be cloistered in some hidden compound.

Btw, allthough they may get what appears to be a large amount of money to you, it will likely not be enough, and certainly not enough for the prison you are proposing.

 

[Natal]

@Delrod: Where have you read that Dugard wants the Garridos in her life or the lives of her girls? I understand that you're speculating, but that seems a jump too far, to put it mildly. I'm glad you're backing off that. Dugard most likely has ambivalent feelings towards the Garridos, true, considering they were her only way to survive physically and staying sane required her to bond with them, but she's said she's "so happy" to be with her family and that she's willing to testify against the two.

The oldest girl will reach majority within 3 years, probably before the trial even completes (if the Smart case is any yardstick). At that point she will be able to make her own decisions regarding the Garridos. If they weren't personally physically or otherwise abused, I don't think it improbable that she would want to continue a relationship with them. The younger girl will be exposed to "re-programming" for a much longer period, and her mind is more pliable, so I wouldn't be surprised if she develops a very negative view of her father when she becomes an adult.

I'm curious how their relationship with their mother will develop, especially the oldest one. I don't think she will ever really see Jaycee as her mother in the conventional sense, she is too old, her personality too set by now.

 

[Natal]

That young lady in Europe had some very mixed reactions in light of her release (she had been kept in a dungeon for years by her kidnapper but had developed something of a relationship with him - he killed himself after her escape)
She was something of a celebrity at first and even had her own talk show etc but has more recently withdrawn. I know adults must be given their own choices but it doesn't sound like she had the best support and guidance. Because it is natural for someone who is released from captivity and reunited with their loved ones to feel elated and happy and it may all seem "easy" at first compared to a life of subjugation and captivity. But later depression about where to go from here and all the time lost and complicated matters about feelings for those who "brought you up" and around whom your world revolved through all those formative years are not going to just go away.
Shawn Akers is another example. I am glad he's doing so well but I take what they say about that with a grain of salt, because feelings and emotions about those years he was in captivity are not just going to go away and can remain in the subconscious for a long time. I am not saying those victims are damaged goods and I applaud any free choice they are able to make to take themselves to a positive place in their lives. But people end up with post traumatic disorders from even just one event sometimes... when a person is young and impressionable and it goes on for years, I imagine that complicates things tremendously.

The problem with the Austrian girl was that she overstayed her welcome in the public eye and people started to be critical of her exploiting the situation. she went from a position where everyone was being super-supportive to one when they started viewing her with distaste, and that is pretty damaging for anyone.

 

[Pink Panther]

The problem with the Austrian girl was that she overstayed her welcome in the public eye and people started to be critical of her exploiting the situation. she went from a position where everyone was being super-supportive to one when they started viewing her with distaste, and that is pretty damaging for anyone.

Link please!

 

[Natal]

Link please!

There you go: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/23/kampusch-kidnap-austria