Huntington Contacted on Dec. 11/Will TH Ever Testify Again **Merged**

[faefrost]

BTW Dr. Huntington, here is a hint for the next time you are called to testify on behalf of an ethically questionable defense team looking to spend somebody elses money. You are young thin pale and a bug guy. This in and of itself makes you more than a tad weird to the general population such as is found in juries. Joyfully and passionately telling them about your glorious expertise in all things decomposition because of all your experience working in the morgue as a 16 year old goes beyind weird and well into CREEPY territory. Very creepy territory. Classic horror movie "Igor" territory. This is probably not the best approach to take.

 

[rabidstoat]

I work in a relatively large research lab with a lot of young PhDs, or others who are actively pursuing advanced degrees. It's a very academic environment.

In the hour or so I listened to in the afternoon, the guy sounded like a lot of people I work with. At least at work, when people get like that they're not trying to obfuscate things. They're just deeply analytical, and love thinking about questions, and that leads to rambling if they think out loud. Plus it's hard for them (and me too, speaking from personal experience) to give a yes-or-no answer because we want to go through all of our assumptions and caveat things.

 

[DeadCat]

It's too bad CA commented on how bad GA smelled a day or two before the Cadaver dogs were brought in.


MOO

Wow--I missed this. Was this in Cindy's interview? Do you have the link?

 

[mombomb]

Respectfully, I think you and I watched two completely different trials. I thought I was watching the Casey Anthony trial; my bad.

Ouch. I know my opinion is not popular; but I have heard many hundreds of experts' testimonies in my career and they are all arrogant and aloof. They are hired to give an opinion for one side. It's human nature to defend that opinion. He did eventually give JA the answers that he wanted and ended up being very helpful to Caylee's cause, IMHOO. He maintained his calm. He had a sense of humor. He is young and naive. I'm sure he won't make the same mistakes he made in this case again. I hope you did not consider my comment in support of the Defense - I just feel this guy was maybe a little over zealous - but no different than the majority of defense experts. It's a nasty business.

 

[grandmaj]

I was curious about a freezer or something being involved, but that means the smell everyone is fixated on, wouldn't be there. Simply transporting even a badly (mid-advanced stage) decomposed thawed body across town, unless there were a lot of bodily fluids spilled, the car wouldn't reek for weeks or months. The smell is unique, horrible, hard to describe, but it does dissipate and go away, unless fluids or tissue remains at the place in question. Then that slows down the smell going away.

It is possible Casey didn't move her to the woods immediately. Maybe she had something to do and was trying to decide her next move and figured that Caylee was frozen so no worries. Meanwhile in the FLA heat Caylee does begin to thaw and leak and the fluids are now lost down into the wheel well. The smell getting worse she decides to quickly dispose of Caylee. And goes to dump her car at the Amscott.

Now leave that car out for for over a week in the hot sun and high temperatures and whatever had leaked just bakes.

 

[TigerBalm]

Huntington knows exactly why he got a smack down today by JA! :great:


# Answer the questions that are asked. You may know your stuff, and give me a really great answer, but if you haven’t actually answered the question that was given I’m going to smack you down for it.

How to get an ‘A’ in Dr. Huntington’s Class

 

[LongtimeMedic]

It is possible Casey didn't move her to the woods immediately. Maybe she had something to do and was trying to decide her next move and figured that Caylee was frozen so no worries. Meanwhile in the FLA heat Caylee does begin to thaw and leak and the fluids are now lost down into the wheel well. The smell getting worse she decides to quickly dispose of Caylee. And goes to dump her car at the Amscott.

Now leave that car out for for over a week in the hot sun and high temperatures and whatever had leaked just bakes.

Certainly plausible scenario. And that in itself is the State's problem at this point. If more than one version of the events can make good sense, it therefore means that one story is more likely than than another, but that is where doubt starts seeping in. And this is very early in the DT's game.

 

[BritsKate]

Huntington knows exactly why he got a smack down today by JA! :great:


# Answer the questions that are asked. You may know your stuff, and give me a really great answer, but if you haven’t actually answered the question that was given I’m going to smack you down for it.

How to get an ‘A’ in Dr. Huntington’s Class

:floorlaugh:

What an awesome find!!!

 

[sappysoul]

Ouch. I know my opinion is not popular; but I have heard many hundreds of experts' testimonies in my career and they are all arrogant and aloof. They are hired to give an opinion for one side. It's human nature to defend that opinion. He did eventually give JA the answers that he wanted and ended up being very helpful to Caylee's cause, IMHOO. He maintained his calm. He had a sense of humor. He is young and naive. I'm sure he won't make the same mistakes he made in this case again. I hope you did not consider my comment in support of the Defense - I just feel this guy was maybe a little over zealous - but no different than the majority of defense experts. It's a nasty business.

I certainly respect your opinion but I have to disagree with the thought all expert witnesses are arrogant and aloof. Some may be one, the other or both but many are also neither.

 

[DeadCat]

I don't think the state has to provide all the details. Not reporting the death and not even speaking up to say it was an accident for months, if not years, is enough to tell me that something really wrong happened.

 

[gngr~snap]

Respectfully snipped...

It is my understanding that adipocere can actually be promoted in warm, anaerobic conditions though...like the trunk of a car in Florida in June.

Children are also more prone to developing adipocere more quickly due to a higher level of fat. (That came from Wiki though. If it's good enough for Baez... )

http://www.academia.dk/BiologiskAnt...burial_environment_on_adipocere_formation.pdf

Pages 33-34

ETA: Mountain Kat's own beloved Dr. Haskell is footnoted in the above study as well.

BBM...
so in my mildly medically educated mind...
here's the possible equation...

1 child
+1 possible freezer (flys weren't able to get to Caylee)
+ anerobic storage (for a day or two in freezer)
+ ? lime (was purchased in June or July
by GA )
- significant blow flies (fewer than expected)
- large amounts of peutrification (less than expected)
+ adipocere (kids have more... but less
would have been seen if freezer used)
________________________
= experts :waitasec:

excerpt...
....As discussed in Section 1, putrefactive activity is
severely inhibited at temperatures below 10c...​

.....Adipocere formation may occur in cold,
glacial environments and is well documented in the case of​

the Iceman who was discovered in the Tyrolean Alps in 1991....

...The burial factors of cold temperature, lime and aerobic
conditions showed a reduced or inhibited rate of adipocere​

formation when compared to the control environment....

farenheit to celcius 10x 9/5 +32=
10x 9/5= 90/5
90/5=18+32= 50 degress farenheit


We all know it was not 50 degreees in Orlandao in JUNE!


http://www.academia.dk/BiologiskAntropologi/Tafonomi/PDF/Adipocere/The_effect_of_the_burial_environment_on_adipocere_formation.pdf

 

[Serjen]

I work in a relatively large research lab with a lot of young PhDs, or others who are actively pursuing advanced degrees. It's a very academic environment.

In the hour or so I listened to in the afternoon, the guy sounded like a lot of people I work with. At least at work, when people get like that they're not trying to obfuscate things. They're just deeply analytical, and love thinking about questions, and that leads to rambling if they think out loud. Plus it's hard for them (and me too, speaking from personal experience) to give a yes-or-no answer because we want to go through all of our assumptions and caveat things.

I asked my 9 year old (who does not have a Ph.D and is NOT a chemist :crazy: ) if non-food items would turn into food items when wet, and in .001 second she laughed and said "duh, No mom!" TH's response was not about being analytical, IMO. He was trying to find an answer to every question that would best benefit the Defense "Umm, well if it was dehydrated food..." :banghead:

 

[azwriter]

And can we add that the body was allegedly wrapped in duct tape and a blanket, 2 drawstring garbage bags, and a laundry bag...

Also, there was a stain--some are saying there wasn't. Am I missing something?
http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/22578293/detail.html

I'm thinking there was a body there (too many people said it stunk and like dead body) but maybe for just a very short time.

Dead Cat (I hope you rethink that name) I too believe there was a body in the trunk. For how long I don't know and I'm not guessing. But, the fact that Casey herself was making excuses to her friend Amy as to why the car had a bad odor tells me indeed something was making the car smell. It had to be a dead body for the smell to linger and be that strong and have others comment that it smelled exactly like a decomposing body. jmo

 

[gngr~snap]

Wow--I missed this. Was this in Cindy's interview? Do you have the link?

it was at the jail with ICA... lemme look...

 

[grandmaj]

I don't think it is at all significant that the DT called Dr. H on December 11. LE called Dr. G on December 11 as well--does that mean law enforcement was involved in hiding Caylee's body? No.

The Padilla report of finding tiny bits of something quite a distance from the A home that might or might not have been bones (and weren't) was obviously not given as much credence by the DT or by the State as an official LE announcement that the skeleton of a toddler had been found around the corner from the A house. I don't find that suspicious at all.

I love you AZ but I do think it is different. Dr. G or her Assistants are in charge of a crime scene where human remains are found. NOT LE. Without a coroner on scene they are not supposed to remove the remains. They can go to jail without a coroner authorization to move those remains.

Here in CO even if you die in a hospital setting and you haven't been there more than 24 hours the body cannot be moved without the coroner authorizing it.

Coroners will go to crime scenes and decide how the scene will be tended to and how the remains will be handled. That is their job. They have full charge of the crime scene. And the wooded area would be considered a secondary crime scene.

Trying to get his defense bug expert onto a crime scene, so that he could begin the defense of Casey is much different. What this shows is that Casey knew it was Caylee, Baez knew it was Caylee and that LKB had already decided how they would proceed at that point.

The coroners here go to homes, go to nursing homes, go to any unattended death or crime scene where a body is found. And I hear them called a few times a week on the scanner to another area in FLA when someone dies at home. It most states it is a requirement that they appear on scene.

The coroner/ME office were doing their job. The bug expert was assisting in building a defense before the body was identified which tells me they already knew who it was.

I work with Coroner's all the time. When I get a call for a death my first question is always has the coroner released the body.

And Coroners require before I can take the body into my care, that the family sign a release form. Coroners have a great deal of authority in most states.

 

[mombomb]

I certainly respect your opinion but I have to disagree with the thought all expert witnesses are arrogant and aloof. Some may be one, the other or both but many are also neither.

You are correct. I should not have said "all". It's just a nasty business. I surely wouldn't want to subject myself to what these guys do - for either side. Someone is always trying to make you look like an idiot. I think it takes someone with a touch of arrogance (maybe that's not the right word) to stand up to the cross examinations that they undergo by great attorneys such as JA. It will be interesting to see where this guy is in 10 or 15 years.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Whenever I see casey in court rubbing her hands I think of the scene from Macbeth where Lady Macbeth was trying to get blood off herself:

'Yet here's a spot.... Out, damned spot! out, I say!.... Here's the smell of the blood still: all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand.'

IMO, casey had nothing but time on her hands to clean her trunk to the best of her ability. Hours and hours of time to work on it. She could do everything within her power, but the smell persisted.

Ah, yes, that darn Scottish play....I've thought the same thing....reminds me of the DT in general..."a tale told by idiots full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.":floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Serjen]

Ouch. I know my opinion is not popular; but I have heard many hundreds of experts' testimonies in my career and they are all arrogant and aloof. They are hired to give an opinion for one side. It's human nature to defend that opinion. He did eventually give JA the answers that he wanted and ended up being very helpful to Caylee's cause, IMHOO. He maintained his calm. He had a sense of humor. He is young and naive. I'm sure he won't make the same mistakes he made in this case again. I hope you did not consider my comment in support of the Defense - I just feel this guy was maybe a little over zealous - but no different than the majority of defense experts. It's a nasty business.

I definitely haven't heard hundreds of expert witnesses in my life, so my opinion is based on a much smaller scale, but in this case alone, I did not find Bloise, Vass, Haskell, Welch or even Dr. G (just to name a few) to all be both aloof and arrogant. Actually, I found them to be quite the opposite, and was pleasantly surprised.
ETA: I posted this before I saw your last response! I think maybe you mean confident instead of arrogant. I would assume you have to have a good level of confidence when going against a lawyer who will try to attack your credibility. I think that is where TH failed today, once his credibility was put in question, he stammered. I'm sure with time he will gain more confidence.

 

[STEADFAST]

I'm sure he'll be in great demand as someone who is willing to testify to anything having to do with science, stick to untenable points unless forced into admitting the real facts, make sweeping statements with little to no evidence, give inconsistent answers, and compare apples and oranges all day long.

 

[spartanmom]

RIGHT - which is exactly why she;

1. Left the garbage bag from TL's apartment in it
2. Made up a stroy about hitting a squirel
3. Put a dryer sheet in it
4. Ditched it at Amscot , near a garbage bin that restaurants used

i personally believe, moo, that the blanket, 2 garbage bags, and laundry bag did a fairly adequate job of containing liquids that would stain. i feel that what small stain was there either a) happened in one day while she was wrapped in a blanket and hadn't decomposed substantially but occurred before she was triple bagged (in this scenario we would use the 4ish window that she was killed and then wrapped in a blanket and sat overnight while the weather was still relatively cool - then triple bagged the next day around the same time frame soo 24 hours only before the liquids really got going and were still being absorbed by the blanket) or b) a small amount seeped out when the bagged contents dripped or spilled during removal to the final location.

I would have to go with B scenario, because didn't Casey & Tony spend the whole day in bed, which would have been the day after the death????:waitasec: