IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

[nursebeeme]

welcome to websleuths morethenrubies! :cheer:

 

[Ollipop]

Ollipop, is that an access road to the lake from S Evans Rd? thanks

No, you couldn't get a car to the lake from there, and if you parked there, you'd have some underbrush to wade through towards the lake. Almost due south, one block's distance, would be where the lake-side fence ends. That is why those woods are remote-ish, because if you were on the trail, you'd have to go around the fence then through woods to get to the lake. It's overgrown, not hospitable. You could get through those trees and to that pump station fairly quickly though. I'll be checking that out later, and will try to get some pics.

I thought they found a phone as well? (or am I just having a memory moment?)

I believe the phone was more of a toy, with no service, used to play games. I cannot confirm that, it is just what I believe I'd heard/read somewhere. I know my own 9-yr old carries all our old phones for play, even though none are capable of making/receiving calls.

thanks, I was curious if someone could park there and from there take a shortcut to where the bikes were found. I've since read that there is a fence on both sides of the bike trail, so that would make it difficult to use as a cut through.

If the bikes were found lying on the ground, they could be tossed over I suppose. If they were found standing up with kick stand down, then they were walked or ridden to the spot.

The fence ends there, so it would not be especially difficult to access those woods from both the driveway and the trail. It is the area I most suspect an abduction happened, if at all.

From what I've read the purse and phone were found over the fence near the lake, not the highway side. Of course, this could have been misreported in the article I read.

Fairly sure that is correct, that they were found between the trail and the lake, not between the trail and the highway. If you saw the area (I'll try to get pics), you'd see that we can almost rule out accessing this area from the highway, and even throwing something over the fence there would be impressive (its tall, completely covered in vines, towered over by trees, etc.) as it almost feels like you are in a tunnel as you pass through that spot.

I was and am still thinking the same thing, that someone could park there and bring the girls through the woods back to the parked car. If the bikes were found closer to the end of the fencing that is between the trail and the lake (see my map for where), then I think that it is a quite plausible scenario. It is an area not visible from the highway nor from Arbutus Avenue. I hope that they checked for tire imprints on the driveway.


Hollye

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I agree. That spot spooks me, and that scenario is very possible.

12:27? REALLY? Not "around 12:30"? What possessed this person to check the time when he saw two bikes on a bike path, which I'd assume is NOT "hinky" in and of itself. Why would you make a mental note of the PRECISE time? My assumption would have been that one rider had to pee behind a tree and the other was the "lookout."

He passed the bikes, and had to swerve. The trail is tight there, with chain-link fence literally right on trails edge on both sides. You'd remember negotiating a swerve and not clipping your handlebars on that fence. It requires attention just for two aware, alert bikers to pass there, much less to suddenly come across bikes laying across the trail. He apparently continued on the trail, around the lake, and to a gas station to use the restroom or get a drink or something, and made a phone call on his cell at that time. Later, when he heard of the girls and the found bikes, he checked the time of that call. From the bikes location to the gas station would easily be within 5 mins riding at a normal pace.

 

[hollye]

After looking at the area from street view from U.S. 20, my initial impression is that there really isn't any way someone could abduct two girls from that spot very easily. It would be a long walk to a waiting car, with two kids to control. If one had on flip flops, its hard to imagine getting them both drug to a car and her not kicking off her flip flops in the process.

If there were two perps, one on the hwy side of fence and the other on the trail they could maybe hand them over, but thats a stretch of the imagination. imo

I agree...From what locals have said with regard to construction going on along that section of highway, in combination with the fence, the ditch and the tall thick grasses, I just don't see how they could have been taken from the highway side without anyone noticing.

Also, keep in mind that the street view is nearly 4 years old (October 2008), so those bushes and grasses would be even more dense and grown up. Also, the leaves are thinning out in October, compared to what they are in July.


Hollye

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[sherbetjello]

a friend found this, wanted to share it here

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/th...cle_94b14cc4-cf32-11e1-9131-001a4bcf887a.html
snipped-
Drew and Heather Collins are is no strangers to adversity. Their faith in God, they say, gets them through trying times.

This article threw a flag for me. Not because they believe in their faith, but for those that were around this family and believed with them.

I haven't read the entire thread (just on page 8!) so this might have already been mentioned. But I looked at Elizabeth's moms FB account. I don't know why but it strikes me as very odd the mom has very few pictures of her daughter, in fact the picture in her profile is one from 2011 (one the media is using as well). Her timeline cover photo isn't a missing person flyer either (maybe I am being picky, but as a mom to two...if one was missing every place I could post on my FB would be about my kids being missing).

I looked through her photo albums as well and very few photos were of Elizabeth (and she had a LOT of albums...of random stuff...other siblings but very few of E, except at holidays mostly). I don't say this because I think the mom is involved, I say this because maybe she did actually live with the grandmother? I think if they did live with her, they should say why...

I keep all pictures of all my children off of FB for several reasons. 1, mainly, is that I do not become a target to a predator (and they lurk deep and dark in social media.) Also, not sure if updating FB timeline would be the first thing I did if I had two children missing, but each person is different -- you know?

 

[nursebeeme]

could the girls have happened upon someone fishing? got off the bikes when he called to them and he lured them thru the woods to where ever he was parked? (would explain sort of why the purse was on the water side of the fence)

 

[hollye]

With regard to whether the tipster would think it odd to come across 2 bikes on the trail, but no kids, I am sure he was more focused on staying on the trail. But I wouldn't think much more than, the kids got off their bikes to explorer...until I heard they turned up missing. It's summer and kids are adventurous.


Hollye

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[Ollipop]

could the girls have happened upon someone fishing? got off the bikes when he called to them and he lured them thru the woods to where ever he was parked? (would explain sort of why the purse was on the water side of the fence)

This is plausible, although the perp would have to be fishing at the least-accessible spot of the lake, and had to lure them well around a fence. I have seen people back there, though, and they did appear to be fishing. I believe, in perhaps 100 times I've passed that spot, I've seen activity back there exactly one time.

The thing is, at that spot in the trail, you simply don't "happen upon" anyone that is not also on the trail, generally. Unless you are at the spot where the fence ends, which may be visible from the road, you'd be enclosed on the trail, surrounded by 8ft chain-link on both sides. The fence ends quite a ways from the lake's edge.

I would like to take my digital video recorder down there and get a shot of us passing through the area. Not sure how to post it here, though. Got my kids with me, but I bet we could document the area fairly and be back here within an hour.

 

[nursebeeme]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

article on checkpoints with picture

 

[auntiejoe]

After looking at the area from street view from U.S. 20, my initial impression is that there really isn't any way someone could abduct two girls from that spot very easily. It would be a long walk to a waiting car, with two kids to control. If one had on flip flops, its hard to imagine getting them both drug to a car and her not kicking off her flip flops in the process.

If there were two perps, one on the hwy side of fence and the other on the trail they could maybe hand them over, but thats a stretch of the imagination. imo

ITA I said that earlier about the flip flops.

Any local know about the bars that are near Ledermans?

 

[palaminodee]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

article on checkpoints with picture

good idea to check the vehicles, remember the Bain girls, AM had them still in the area...gives LE time to check homes and businesses with hopes they may find them!

 

[LisaB]

Why would someone offer two girls with bikes a ride and why would two girls with bikes accept a ride. That doesn't make sense to me.

Does anyone know if the bikes were checked for mechanical problems? A flat tire? A chain that had slipped off? If they had ended up walking their bikes, it is entirely possible that someone stopped to offer them (andd their bikes) a lift home.

 

[nursebeeme]

The family now wonders if the girls were abducted, said Tammy Brousseau, an aunt to both girls.

"In the area where the bikes were found there is a very brushy area where somebody could have pulled up -- maybe had been watching them for a little bit of time," she said.

Elizabeth's parents say it gets harder every day that passes without news of the girls.

"Positive thinking is all we have right now and our faith that God will bring them back," Elizabeth's mother, Heather Collins, told KGAN on Sunday.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-missing-iowa-girls,0,5115570.story

 

[LisaB]

If the 8 yr old fell in, the 10 yr old might have fallen in trying to save her.

One report said it was only 4 feet deep through out most of the lake. But the drain thing does sound very scary.

The 8 year old was 4'1". If she was unable to swim, she could easily have drowned. Unless she can breath through the top of her head. If she was struggling to keep her head above water, she might not have realized it was ony 4' deep. I could see her trying to reach the bottom with her feet and being unable to touch. At that point, for all she knew, the water could have been (and might as well have been) 10' deep.

 

[sreshowtime]

Does anyone know if the bikes were checked for mechanical problems? A flat tire? A chain that had slipped off? If they had ended up walking their bikes, it is entirely possible that someone stopped to offer them (andd their bikes) a lift home.

I was wondering that too- if one had a flat or something and someone offered to fix it, under the guise of getting them in a vehicle (van)

I still worry those bikes & bag were dumped there

 

[Foxymona]

Could someone link to the MSS photos of the location where the bikes were found?

TIA

 

[ChasingMoxie]

I think Ollipop's scenario of them being abducted from a separate area entirely makes the most sense so far. Perhaps even from very close to their house/back of the store area where they were last seen. I agree that it's likely some other kids came across the bikes and bag, and rode them to where they were found to quickly search through the purse and then try to throw it in the lake. Those kids would be too scared to come forward because they would not want to admit to the theft.

Either that or an abduction shortly up the trail by the pumphouse, and the bikes just moved back down the trail. Even that though doesn't make a ton of sense, those bikes were left where they would definitely be found, why would someone bother with that when they're already dealing with a multiple child abduction? It's unnecessarily risky and doesn't really buy them much, makes more sense to dump them where they won't be found, or else just leave them at the spot of the abduction.

 

[raeann]

Kind of off topic a bit but important, too.

Those who are commenting that their kids are allowed to keep old cell phones should know and make sure their kids know that a disconnected cell phone will still dial 911 if it is kept charged to use for playing games, etc. The location service will most likely not work to help the operator locate the phone, but just being able to dial for help is important. ALSO, for those who allow babies or toddlers to "play" with the phone, the battery should be removed, as 911 receives dozens of accidental calls every day from young children playing with cell phones.

jmo

 

[Eileen730]

Could these girls have gone off with some other kids?

 

[panthera]

The 8 year old was 4'1". If she was unable to swim, she could easily have drowned. Unless she can breath through the top of her head. If she was struggling to keep her head above water, she might not have realized it was ony 4' deep. I could see her trying to reach the bottom with her feet and being unable to touch. At that point, for all she knew, the water could have been (and might as well have been) 10' deep.

My mind has also been going in that direction, that they possibly could have drowned in the lake, perhaps as an explanation much easier to accept than someone stalking children in this relatively small town, despite the number of SO living there.

MOO

 

[kikid]

Could someone link to the MSS photos of the location where the bikes were found?

TIA

this article has some good photos.