IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[GGE]

I am still trying to come up with a timeline!!

The FACTUAL timeline is very simple.

Grandma sent them out riding bikes at 11:30 (or they left to ride bikes, whatever)

She looked out and saw them around 12:15.

This was confirmed with the video camera behind Ledermans, time stamp of 12:11 and/or 12:13 but the owner said this could have been as much as 8- minutes slow, meaning 12:11 and/or 12:13 is more like 12:19 and/or 12:21.

LE says they found the bikes at 3:58.

Nothing else official to the timeline.

 

[callyn]

Not if they had bicycle gloves on.

Bicycle gloves are normally fingerless.

 

[Jules71]

I would not use anyone's version of events as fact in this case - other than LE's.

 

[greenfingers]

Sometimes a combination of therapy and drugs is needed. If the anxiety is at a high level, sometimes a person really cannot participate in helping themselves. The counseling just cannot get through the wall of anxiety. JMO MOO-Callyn

As a therapist, I can tell you that statement is so true.anxiety can be so debilitating that it makes therapy almost useless. You must first be able to reach the person in order to show them effective coping strategies.

I also suffered high level panic attacks and anxiety for many years,ended up in a mental institute for 2 weeks prescribed xanax and prozac but also had councelling for 10 years.It took me 3 years to come off xanax 3 a day and thankfully now I am a stronger person.had not left the house for years! now I can drive and hold down a job.I was tempted to drink to get me to where I needed to go,but I was able to talk myself out of it.:blushing:

 

[MomtoCrysChris]

I am a first time poster, but read here all the time because you have all the latest info. I have something I want to bring up and ask what everyone thinks, even though it has been discussed previously. I just keep coming back to the prior disappearance of Lyric.

Some points from this Jane Velez-Mitchell Interview on July 17th: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL question to Dan Morrissey: “Where were you? How did you find out?”

D. MORRISSEY answer – with further explanation of prior disappearance with other cousin: “I was in Waterloo at my mom`s house with my son. And I was taking a nap, and my wife called and woke me up and told me that Lyric was missing. This had just happened probably four days before, that where she was supposed to go to, you know, a certain destination and then come back, and after a while she hadn`t come back. And they went to that destination and she wasn`t there. And so things got stirred up. My wife called me then and told me the same thing, that she`s missing. And I told her to call the cops. And they went around to drive around some more, and all of a sudden my daughter`s calling me from my wife`s phone and saying, "Daddy." You know? So four days after that I`m getting another call from my wife and saying the same thing, you know. So I`m like what? And so she was out looking for her and I guess, you know, the police got involved and...”

VELEZ-MITCHELL to Dan Morrissey: “I`m not -- I`m not sure I understand. Are you saying that there was an incident prior to the Friday incident?”

M. MORRISSEY answer: “Yes. A week before this, Lyric and her other cousin, Tammy`s daughter, K (ph), who were in Green Briar, which is another division of Waterloo, and they went walking to the park. They were gone for an extended amount of time. We went looking for them at the park, and they weren`t there. So we called the police. They -- right when I called the police they came walking up to the house.”

VELEZ-MITCHELL follow-up question: “So I`m trying to process all this. And you know much more about it. Please don`t take anything I`m asking personally, but is it possible that the little -- one of the little girls may have wanted to run away or been overly curious about just going off? Getting to that age where they want to just maybe take off?”

M. MORRISSEY answer: “No.”

D. MORRISSEY answer: “Absolutely not.”

M. MORRISSEY answer: “No.”

VELEZ-MITCHELL follow-up question: “Is there any commonality? Is it just a coincidence that these two incidents happened a couple of days apart?”

M. MORRISSEY answer: “I think so, yes. The first incident, you know, a week prior, her and K (ph) were just playing at the park. You know, just playing, being kids. And it really wasn`t that far away. It wasn`t -- they were gone a little bit too long, but they weren`t that far away.”

My thoughts: Misty clearly says the two girls (in prior situation) went to the park, they were gone too long so they went to look for them. The girls WERE NOT at the park, so they called the police. Then up come the girls. There has never been any explanation given that I have found that says where the girls were during the time they were missing. Here Misty just blows it off as though the family overreacted, that there is no connection between these two events. How does Misty know that the two girls had not gone off in a vehicle with someone and that is why they were not at the park? And then they got dropped off and came home? I am really starting to believe the answer may lie with the other cousin, Tammy’s daughter K (not sure of spelling).

<modsnip>

I don&#8217;t believe any of the family members did anything to the girls. But when families are involved in drugs and/or crime, and allow younger children to go off unsupervised, trouble often follows. I think someone took advantage of an ideal situation.

The older girls may have been exposed to their parents&#8217; druggie friends, and consequently so were the younger girls. What if the prior disappearance involved one of these older friends, but no harm came to them. Then maybe that male met up with Lyric and made another &#8220;date&#8221;, but Elizabeth was dragged into it? Or he just happened to see them riding around and got them to go with him willingly, since nothing bad happened last time?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Here's a question for locals: how easy is it to find Meyer's Lake?

Are there road signs?

I'm thinking that the location of the bicycles just about precludes the perp being someone who just drove through town. It has to be someone who spent at least a little time in town, enough time to explore the various parks and observe the typical usage patterns.

If it was just the bicycles that had been found there, I would give more weight to the theory that some kids found the bicycles elsewhere and left them at Meyer's Lake as a prank. But the purse being tossed over the fence really makes me think that whatever happened to Elizabeth and Lyric was a surprise and probably started there in the park.

I could easily be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[GGE]

Bicycle gloves are normally fingerless.

Yes. For a picture of fingerless bicycle gloves, one can find TG's photo kicking around in some article about the girls. He wore fingerless gloves.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Correct. That is what little we know to be fact. I am throwing out everything stated by family, for now. Conflicting accounts...most of what they have said hasn't been verified. In fact, Aunt T has confused everyone.

 

[Shelby2]

I would not use anyone's version of events as fact in this case - other than LE's.

I agree, but it would be interesting to compare them all!

 

[CHERIE.T]

I apologize if this was already posted, I am trying to catch up.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19157663/cousin-of-missing-evansdale-girls-arrested-on-drug-charges

:what:have mercy!

 

[Claudia]

Counseling would never be able to control anxiety attacks. Never.

IMO, JMO, MOO

Agreed 100%. I have had anxiety and panic attacks since I was 13. No counseling or drug (legal drug, that is) has ever helped it.

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[JaimeInLA]

Why don't we go over what we know to be FACT first, which is very little. just the facts to start.

Yes, good idea. And after the master list of facts, we should also make a list of questions. Sometimes I wonder if we think of questions here that reporters and/or LE haven't thought of. It would be great to make a concise list of the most important questions, and get it to LE and the media.

 

[pearl]

Counseling would never be able to control anxiety attacks. Never.

IMO, JMO, MOO

Speaking from personal experience here regarding clinical depression and anxiety attacks. My experience is that counseling in and of itself just does not do the job. Clinical depression is and was evident in my family going back four generations. I have read about the old nature/nurture debate endlessly. It is true that brain chemicals are involved and medications adjust those brain chemicals. That is why some people try multiple kinds of medication until they and their medical doctors find the one that truly works for them. This would be an antidepressant which is not the same thing as a tranquilizer which is prescribed for serious anxiety attacks. That having been said, a really good psychiatrist should oversee the drug therapy. Finding the right doctor for you is just as important as the correct medication. I spent years seeing various doctors who did not give me much help at all. I finally found a wonderful doctor who I have been seeing for 19 years. For many years now I only go twice a year to see her for medication maintenance. Several of the early years were spent in monthly therapy sessions. I am being sarcastic in this next statement. Not only was I blessed with a physical predisposition to depression, I am a member of a highly dysfunctional family. Look up dysfunction in the dictionary and there is our family. My biggest roadblock to successful treatment was accepting that I would have to take a pill for the rest of my life to be a functional adult. I'm not going to cast stones at the members of this family who have had drug problems at some point in their lives. There but for the grace of God go I. I was a teenager/young adult during the 1970s when drug use was an accepted way of life for many people. Some did drugs and then went on with their lives. Some became lifelong drug addicts. A few died of overdose or cumulative use of drugs for many years. Please do not take this as a rant. My opinion of this case does center around illegal drugs. The recovering meth addict is just like other addicts. They take one day at a time. Are they going to act like we think they should act? No, they are not. Their actions are based on what they feel comfortable with doing. Two pieces of advice from my doctor have gotten me through many a rough patch: do not make any major decisions when you are depressed and always remember that this too shall pass. My prayer is that Lyric and Elizabeth are found safe and that whoever is responsible for their disappearance is held accountable to the fullest extent of the law

 

[Jules71]

Good point, M2CC! Let's look at this again:

Some points from this Jane Velez-Mitchell Interview on July 17th: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...7/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL question to Dan Morrissey: &#8220;Where were you? How did you find out?&#8221;

D. MORRISSEY &#8220;I was in Waterloo at my mom`s house with my son. And I was taking a nap, and my wife called and woke me up and told me that Lyric was missing. This had just happened probably four days before, that where she was supposed to go to, you know, a certain destination and then come back, and after a while she hadn`t come back. And they went to that destination and she wasn`t there. And so things got stirred up. My wife called me then and told me the same thing, that she`s missing. And I told her to call the cops. And they went around to drive around some more, and all of a sudden my daughter`s calling me from my wife`s phone and saying, "Daddy." You know? So four days after that I`m getting another call from my wife and saying the same thing, you know. So I`m like what? And so she was out looking for her and I guess, you know, the police got involved and...&#8221;

VELEZ-MITCHELL to Dan Morrissey: &#8220;I`m not -- I`m not sure I understand. Are you saying that there was an incident prior to the Friday incident?&#8221;

M. MORRISSEY answer: &#8220;Yes. A week before this, Lyric and her other cousin, Tammy`s daughter, K----- (ph), who were in Green Briar, which is another division of Waterloo, and they went walking to the park. They were gone for an extended amount of time. We went looking for them at the park, and they weren`t there. So we called the police. They -- right when I called the police they came walking up to the house.&#8221;

VELEZ-MITCHELL follow-up question: &#8220;So I`m trying to process all this. And you know much more about it. Please don`t take anything I`m asking personally, but is it possible that the little -- one of the little girls may have wanted to run away or been overly curious about just going off? Getting to that age where they want to just maybe take off?&#8221;

M. MORRISSEY answer: &#8220;No.&#8221;

D. MORRISSEY answer: &#8220;Absolutely not.&#8221;

M. MORRISSEY answer: &#8220;No.&#8221;

VELEZ-MITCHELL follow-up question: &#8220;Is there any commonality? Is it just a coincidence that these two incidents happened a couple of days apart?&#8221;

M. MORRISSEY answer: &#8220;I think so, yes. The first incident, you know, a week prior, her and K----- (ph) were just playing at the park. You know, just playing, being kids. And it really wasn`t that far away. It wasn`t -- they were gone a little bit too long, but they weren`t that far away.&#8221;


Yeah, so if they were just playing at the park and gone a little bit too long - why weren't they there when you went there looking for them?!!!

 

[JaimeInLA]

I would not use anyone's version of events as fact in this case - other than LE's.

Oh hey there Jules! I barely recognized you without your parenthesis!! :seeya:

 

[cindersoot]

Here's a question for locals: how easy is it to find Meyer's Lake?

Are there road signs?

I'm thinking that the location of the bicycles just about precludes the perp being someone who just drove through town. It has to be someone who spent at least a little time in town, enough time to explore the various parks and observe the typical usage patterns.

If it was just the bicycles that had been found there, I would give more weight to the theory that some kids found the bicycles elsewhere and left them at Meyer's Lake as a prank. But the purse being tossed over the fence really makes me think that whatever happened to Elizabeth and Lyric was a surprise and probably started there in the park.

I could easily be wrong and it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

In my opinion Meyers lake is not easy to find, but if you took the bike path east of Fayette st it takes you straight there. Straight to where the bikes were found I might add.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Facts:
1. Last seen on cctv at 12:11 (or + 8 minutes slow = 12:19)
2. Bikes found at 3:58
3. Elizabeth and Lyric are missing

I'm going to question your first fact. Sorry. I know there is still debate over whether there is one video or two. But, before the more zoomed out video (the 12:11 version) was released, everyone was saying the last sighting was at 12:15, per the more zoomed in video. Did that first video have a time stamp on it? Did anyone actually SEE a time stamp on EITHER video?

(I'm just wondering if maybe the girls were doing laps around that block, and passed the camera at 12:11 AND 12:15)

 

[Jules71]

Oh hey there Jules! I barely recognized you without your parenthesis!! :seeya:

(Haha! I know, right!) :seeya:

 

[Jules71]

I'm going to question your first fact. Sorry. I know there is still debate over whether there is one video or two. But, before the more zoomed out video (the 12:11 version) was released, everyone was saying the last sighting was at 12:15, per the more zoomed in video. Did that first video have a time stamp on it? Did anyone actually SEE a time stamp on EITHER video?

(I'm just wondering if maybe the girls were doing laps around that block, and passed the camera at 12:11 AND 12:15)

I believe it is the same video. The first one released did not show a time stamp. 12:15 came from LE.

 

[Jules71]

Maybe LE averaged the time between the 12:11 time stamp and being 8 minutes slow 12:19 and that is how they got the 12:15.

So maybe our facts should state 'Last seen on cctv between 12:11 and 12:19.'