IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Marilynilpa]

I dunno. It's nowhere near home for me and I'm not even a parent and it's hitting me really hard too.

One heart wrenching case that was close to home for me is Jaycee Dugard. Maybe it reminds me of her? Or maybe it's just something about these girls that's really touching peoples hearts.

It's hitting me hard as well. I think it's because two little girls should be able to ride their bikes without fear.

 

[cindersoot]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19196895/saturday-events-dedicated-to-missing-cousins

First paragraph states that LE has reason to believe the girls are alive.

I wonder if this is from the statement made by LE two weeks ago or if this is still the case and this is a current statement. Anyone know?

This was said by LE weeks ago.

 

[whittymom4]

GDhu is correct, in IA evidence, clues and unfortunately people are found after harvest and during hunting season if they were brought to a more rural area.

Oh I pray they are found safe and not laying out in someones field

 

[Bootsctr]

I dunno. It's nowhere near home for me and I'm not even a parent and it's hitting me really hard too.

One heart wrenching case that was close to home for me is Jaycee Dugard. Maybe it reminds me of her? Or maybe it's just something about these girls that's really touching peoples hearts.

Reminds me of Jessica Lunsford.... :notgood:

 

[nikb]

Okay this is something that has been bugging me and I need to ask. Do any of you think the perp would visit this site?

It has most definitely crossed my mind and in some cases has influenced things I chose to re-word or not post.

 

[dovebar]

Im just saying that if it were my child, I would be conducting the fund raiser.

I think this is connected to the notion of why kids from lower socioeconomic status areas might be more often victims.

Their families are more likely to be split, have kids more lightly supervised, have sketchy people hanging around the house and neighborhood without attracting too much notice, have parents who aren't educated enough to be savvy about working with the media or even who would know how to run a fundraiser. They don't have money for private detectives, or for an attorney to help them work positively with cops. No big money reward will be posted. They are more likely to live near railroad tracks or interstates, so that a perp can be easily long gone by the time they are thought to be missing. The kids might even - because of a divorce or family turmoil, domestic violence at home - be easier to control because they'd be more likely to believe a perp saying something like, "Your parents don't want you anymore." Cars that aren't brand new don't stand out in these neighborhoods. Children here are given more freedom than in Chicago because even low-income parents think it's "safe" for them to ride their bikes all over town. I imagine that networks of perps - and we definitely see that they now have internet networks where they share "tips" on abduction - know all this and compare notes about where to best get victims.

I think those of us with some education could do more to help educate kids who come from these homes, and parents themselves, about how to keep their kids safe. If you're really poor, you don't subscribe to O Magazine. Like info on domestic violence hotlines, posted on flyers in women's bathroom stalls, we probably need to start posting something like "5 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safer" in the bathrooms of McDonald's and other places where a real cross-section of people would see it.

 

[nikb]

Too late. In Iowa, reward money goes into an escrow account until the conditions are met for it to be paid out.

At least, big rewards that would attract prosecutorial attention. Small rewards, such as offered for a missing pet, just fly under the radar.

Ah did not know that. It makes sense though. Thanks for the info.

 

[Thinkzerz]

We need a rewind in scanner room please..
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8229454&posted=1#post8229454

 

[elmomom]

I think one of the problems with getting TES or such in to search is that in order for the parents to request the help, they have to be mentally ready to consider that they need help searching for remains. In this case, LE went ahead and said they had evidence at one point that led them to believe the girls were still alive. I hope they were right. But even if their opinion has changed, I think the effect of that upon the families' psyches would be to prolong the time in which they will remain hopeful. That can be a very good thing. But it also may mean they wouldn't be at all interested in requesting TES come in and search. KWIM?

 

[elmomom]

I think this is connected to the notion of why kids from lower socioeconomic status areas might be more often victims.

Their families are more likely to be split, have kids more lightly supervised, have sketchy people hanging around the house and neighborhood without attracting too much notice, have parents who aren't educated enough to be savvy about working with the media or even who would know how to run a fundraiser. They don't have money for private detectives, or for an attorney to help them work positively with cops. No big money reward will be posted. They are more likely to live near railroad tracks or interstates, so that a perp can be easily long gone by the time they are thought to be missing. The kids might even - because of a divorce or family turmoil, domestic violence at home - be easier to control because they'd be more likely to believe a perp saying something like, "Your parents don't want you anymore." Cars that aren't brand new don't stand out in these neighborhoods. Children here are given more freedom than in Chicago because even low-income parents think it's "safe" for them to ride their bikes all over town. I imagine that networks of perps - and we definitely see that they now have internet networks where they share "tips" on abduction - know all this and compare notes about where to best get victims.

I think those of us with some education could do more to help educate kids who come from these homes, and parents themselves, about how to keep their kids safe. If you're really poor, you don't subscribe to O Magazine. Like info on domestic violence hotlines, posted on flyers in women's bathroom stalls, we probably need to start posting something like "5 Tips to Keep Your Kids Safer" in the bathrooms of McDonald's and other places where a real cross-section of people would see it.

Can you show me a reference for saying that kids of lower socioeconomic class are more often the victims of abduction? I don't think that is true.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

 

[ROM828]

This was said by LE weeks ago.

I know it was mentioned several weeks ago, but I'm wondering, since the article was posted today, if that is still something that LE stands by??

 

[SeeMamaRun]

Hi Sleuths,

I've been lurking on these boards since Lisa Irwin went missing but finally registered for Lyric & Elizabeth. I live in Cedar Rapids, IA and this one is hitting really close for me.

I don't have any theories that haven't already been mentioned. I go back and forth between thinking it was a random thing and thinking it was someone who's know the girls a long time. I do wonder why Aunt T. knew to go to the lake considering the girls "never went there before" but might be nothing.

In regards to volunteer searches, LE asked them to stop on Sunday Night (July 15)

Snipped:
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"The volunteer search ended at about 4:45 p.m. Sunday. Authorities decided at 7 p.m. another full-scale search with the public’s help won’t be held today since the vast majority of people are volunteers, including Evansdale firefighters coordinating the search effort, and need to go back to work.

“Officers are thinking let’s wait-and-see what comes up. Right now there’s nothing more to check, we’ve already covered about 12 square miles,” said Capt. Rick Abben with the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office."
----------

Snipped from: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_20c2e864-d215-11e1-a320-0019bb2963f4.html

Also, I don't have the links but there has been at least fundraiser (a walk) & there is a bank account set up. I assume that money is being used to make up for lost funds from missing work but I don't know that. I agree it would be great to have a third party managing funds to help bring in a PI.

There are just so many things about this case that confuse me and I am praying every day that these girls will come home safe!

 

[SouthernMom]

why do people keep suggesting the purse was thrown over a fence ???

This was a detail that was mentioned in some of the earliest news reports. The girls disappeared, purse and cell phone thrown over the fence, bikes left laying on the trail. Sorry I can't find a link.

 

[Confusion]

Okay this is something that has been bugging me and I need to ask. Do any of you think the perp would visit this site?

It wouldn't surprise me at all. The other day, I was sitting here thinking, "If this was a movie, who would end up being guilty?" The answer I came up with was Ollipop, but I'm not accusing him even jokingly! The point I'm making is that it really makes sense for the person/people to come to places like this to monitor what LE does know and to try to help move suspicions in the wrong direction. Even though I never considered Ollipop to be a suspect (this is real life, not a movie), it has been bothering me that he's been gone the last coople days (since I did my stupid movie analysis of the case) because I worry that LE may question the reason he's been out there taking pictures, etc.

I love how everybody is so anxious to help, especially when they really can help, but I just hope people are being careful about getting too involved in areas where it should be LE checking things out. Not because I think anyone is acting suspiciously, but because I'd hate to lose that valuable help, even temporarily.

 

[huckleberryhound]

Okay this is something that has been bugging me and I need to ask. Do any of you think the perp would visit this site?

You know ,it's weird you ask this, because, even though I've followed several other cases on this site, that thought has never really occurred to me until this case, when I've thought of that often, for some reason. Maybe because there are a lot of locals commenting? I dont know why I keep wondering if a perp would enjoy playing with us here.

 

[cindersoot]

I know it was mentioned several weeks ago, but I'm wondering, since the article was posted today, if that is still something that LE stands by??

Oh...I don't know.

 

[Kelly Faraday]

Okay this is something that has been bugging me and I need to ask. Do any of you think the perp would visit this site?

ABSOLUTELY.

OT: Cindersoot, I saw your post earlier regarding your love for animals. GOD bless you. You sound like my kind of person!

K.

 

[cindersoot]

ABSOLUTELY.

OT: Cindersoot, I saw your post earlier regarding your love for animals. GOD bless you. You sound like my kind of person!

K.

Awww. an animal lover friend. Thanks. God Bless you also:rocker:

 

[ROM828]

"We believe," Breault said, "these girls are alive and we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance."

This statement from FBI stands out more than anything so far...not just because it is what we all what to believe, but because of how certain they are/were. They are NOT discouraged by the passage of time.....

what evidence would make them say this, but at the same time, now two weeks later, still do not have a suspect? I cannot figure this out.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...orities-believe-missing-iowa-girls-are-alive/

 

[Pensfan]

But there is a big difference between children who are abducted for sexual reasons and killed, and children who suffer from sexual abuse. I see the statistics for one being used for the other here as WS all the time, and I think we need to be more careful. According to statistics, the person who abducts and murders a child is approx 45% likely to be a complete stranger, 45% likely to be an acquaintance or person known to the family and only approx 10% likely to be a family member or intimate person. ( I've rounded out the numbers)
http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf
Another interesting fact is that the most likely victim of abduction is a blue collar or middle class female in suburbia from a "normal" background.

Let's not get the statistics confused. The statistics vary according to the age of the child and they vary according to "abducted" and abducted found murdered".

(Ages 1-5) Only 7% of abducted children were abducted by non-family/acquaintances/strangers. 93% were abducted by family.

(Ages 6-11) Only 12% of abducted children were abducted by non-family/acquaintances/strangers. 88% were abducted by family.

(Ages 12-14) 38% of abducted children in this age group are abducted by non-family/acquaintances/strangers. 62% were abducted by family.

(Ages 15-17) 20% of abducted children in this age group are abducted by non-family/acquaintances/strangers. 80% were abducted by family.
Pre-teens and teens are the children that are far more likely to be abducted by nonfamily.
http://www.pollyklaas.org/media/pdf/NISMARTIInonfamily.pdf
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How many children are reported missing each year by the U. S. Department of Justice and found to be a NONFAMILY/STRANGER/BOOGEYMAN abduction? 115

115 children are the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping each year. These crimes involve someone the child does not know or a slight acquaintance who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.
Source: U.S. Department of Justice National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children, 2002

There are approx. 76.1 million children in the USA.
http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables.asp
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Up until the age of approx 11, family is most likely the offender in a child’s homicide.

Filicide, the deliberate act of a parent killing his or her own child, is the third-leading cause of death in American children ages 5 to 14.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/187239.pdf