IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[SapphireSteel]

I think what DM stated, is exactly what happened.

Someone was waiting there, and did "follow them down".

Which would also imply that they WILLINGLY followed whoever it was, back up again, to be driven away...unless there was more than one perp.

:moo:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wondering if he was accompanied there by like a father, uncle, brother figure who had to suddenly leave and told him to stay there, he'll be right back. But it is obvious from the boys comments that whomever were not "right back". Took quite awhile it seems, the type of time probably, 4 - 8hrs, that would be necessary to get the situation under control for this type of crime.

Age and times would be nice as the parents could chime in about him being left there all day, unattended.

Verification of if he traveled alone of with someone is needed? Did he walk? Bike? Picked up? Dropped off?

If he neither saw nor heard those girls, and he was there all day, than I believe the girls never made it to the lake. Bikes were placed at the lake which would corroborate their scent being there. This however would cast serious suspicion IMO on the bike rider's story who had to swerve to avoid the bikes in the path. This would imply the bikes where placed in the pathway, than moved by the lake. No UNSUB(S) in their right minds would return to a crime scene TWICE to move bikes. Only other way was that the crime was in progress. Which the biker would of ridden right by. In saying that I see only two possible scenarios:

A. UNSUBS moved the bikes twice. Crime in progress or return to scene.
B. Bike riders story is false and he should be further scrutinized.

The bikes were either in the path or not in the path. If what the bike riders said is true, than the UNSUBS moved the bikes twice or the crime was in progress. Boy fishing nearby hears nothing. Figure in statistics and odds of this happening, it just seems odd. IMO

***Assuming abduction either at the lake and bikes placed or before the lake, bikes placed at lake.

Or someone else moved the bikes and has already come forward, so LE has no need to make a public appeal for the information.

Or the bicycles that TG saw were not Elizabeth and Lyric's bicycles and LE has already figured out that part, so again, no public appeal.

 

[SapphireSteel]

There is a hole in the fence on the highway side of the trail. It's been there for a long time and was caused by a traffic accident. There is a gate along the trail to access the drainage pipe. The trail at that location is 10 feet wide and there is a fence on either side of the trail. It's obvious that no vehicle can turn around in an area that is 10 feet wide. The total length of the double fenced area is about 500 feet, not yards.

Perhaps he's a poor judge of length and distance.

Anyone driving down the trail around the lake or reversing after driving halfway around the lake would have been noticed by the slowed traffic on the highway, nearby houses and people at the park.

Ok I must have it completely wrong.

I thought that the bikeway went around the lake.

Between the bikeway and the highway, there was greenery.

Cutting through that greenery is a short track with a gate that is open, for maintenance vehicles.

I assumed that this short track was where an abduction vehicle was parked, either in sight of the road or not, and the girls were somehow led to this vehicle, which then quickly reversed and drove away?

Clearly if vehicles can go into this track, they can come back out again?

TIA for clarification if I've got it wrong.

:moo:

 

[SK_Hunter]

[/B]

BBM: A quick search shows that K&W Sausage does indeed have a USDA/Federally inspected license which would be required for retail across state lines, but is also required simply for in-state resale of processed meats (sausages, smoked meats, etc).

Thank you for this. I wonder how big their delivery fleet is?

 

[otto]

Ok I must have it completely wrong.

I thought that the bikeway went around the lake.

Between the bikeway and the highway, there was greenery.

Cutting through that greenery is a short track with a gate that is open, for maintenance vehicles.

I assumed that this short track was where an abduction vehicle was parked, either in sight of the road or not, and the girls were somehow led to this vehicle, which then quickly reversed and drove away?

Clearly if vehicles can go into this track, they can come back out again?

TIA for clarification if I've got it wrong.

:moo:

In looking at the area around Meyers Lake, I don't see any way to drive from the highway directly to the trail.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm saddened beyond sad that the girls are still missing tonight. I know statistically this is bad,very bad. The chances of a safe return IMO now are very slim. I'm afraid of what the girls may have endured. I feel sick. I pray they are found and brought home. Imoo.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I asked my kids her opinion on what she thinks happened to the girls. She believes they did go to the lake. I said but these girls never went that far before. And my daughter said. Yeah ok, they just never got caught.

This is her opinion. She doesn't know this as truth because we live in Canada she doesn't know the girls. But just saying it is a kids point of view.

 

[Copper]

I thought that the bikeway went around the lake.

This is correct.

Between the bikeway and the highway, there was greenery.

This is incorrect. Between the bikeway and the highway is only a fence. And then you need only walk up the incline to the shoulder of the highway.

Cutting through that greenery is a short track with a gate that is open, for maintenance vehicles.

The greenery with the track (Maiden Lane) is on the east side of the lake. The track runs south from Arbutus to the bikeway. There is no gate where the track meets the trail. And by all accounts, it seems the track has been unused for some time.

I assumed that this short track was where an abduction vehicle was parked, either in sight of the road or not, and the girls were somehow led to this vehicle, which then quickly reversed and drove away?

Yes, it is possible for a vehicle to get on the track and up into the greenery.

Clearly if vehicles can go into this track, they can come back out again?

I do believe it is possible to come in one end of the track and out the other.

 

[SapphireSteel]

In looking at the area around Meyers Lake, I don't see any way to drive from the highway directly to the trail.

I didn't say there was?

I said I thought there was a short maintenance path directly to the biketrail (if not actually touching it, but within close distance) where a car could park, and was asking for confirmation of this.

I got it. There was and it could.

Thanks.

 

[azuredewdrop]

There's a gap between the law and actual enforcement, at least in my experience.

I had to help my ex-sil (who I still love like a sister) go after my brother to get the back child support he owed. Since she'd had a job and had never been on government assistance, she was considered low priority by the CSRU and they would get to it when they had cleared higher priority cases.

After more than a year of that, she said the heck with that, went back to her own lawyer and took him to court herself.

The reason she felt forced to take action was because her child had a catastrophic illness and she could no longer work. But even with that information, CRSU still considered her case low priority because she had not applied for assistance (her husband started working massive overtime to support the family while she took care of their child).

Who knows? Maybe CSRU was two days from moving on her case when she took matters into her own hands. Somehow I doubt it.

Our experience w/Iowa CSRU it is super inconsistent. We weren't on assistance but the non-custodial parent was so her support wasn't ever very much. Sometimes CSRU would contact us and push to get her for support (they even sent her to jail twice), and then years passed where we couldn't get them to do anything on it. Then suddenly they'd be all over it aggressively again. I think that it depends any given year on how much of a budget they have. I know in the last few years they've been hit hard with cuts. I do think they put a lot higher priority on cases where the custodial parent is on assistance even though they handle it for all.

A bit O/T my opinion of IA CSRU isn't very favorable for a number of reasons, it's pretty messed up. (changing the minimum required support to $10 per month for starters! :maddening: )

 

[craftybatchy]

Are there any community service organizations ie. churches, charities, clubs who are known to own a white van for their exclusive use ?

Did Lyric or Elizabeth have prior contact or association with one of these organizations (enough so that the vehicle in question would not be unfamiliar to them) ?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Gramma on Nancy Grace -


And then another thing I want to say is down by the lake, going, not the bike path, somebody could have snatched them along the road. If there was two people in a van, they could have thrown those kids in their van with their bikes and there`s another way to drive by the houses and get to the end of that trail and they could have chunked the bikes down there with the children.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

So Gramma is saying there is/was a way to do it. Dan also said there was. They're both locals so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

 

[otto]

I didn't say there was?

I said I thought there was a short maintenance path directly to the biketrail (if not actually touching it, but within close distance) where a car could park, and was asking for confirmation of this.

I got it. There was and it could.

Thanks.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I still don't understand where you mean. i'm going to post some maps of the area and please tell me which area you mean. There's Maiden Lane and the bike trail (I believe it's called Evansdale Trail). When you say path, what do you mean?

This map shows the entire trail, the home, the bikes, the times

This looks at just the lake

Close up of Maiden Lane area with photos from Ollipop

This gives a sense of scale

thx

 

[MotherOcean]

Anyone know where I can find a link to that last press briefing? I have searched and searched and can't find it. I want to go back and listen to what Abben said about the condition of the bikes and purse when found. He addressed it but I can't recall exactly what he said.

 

[Jules71]

For those who haven't done so - take a minute to go to Google maps and type in Meyers Lake Evansdale IA. Click on birdseye view or whatever it is. You can zoom really close in on the south and east sides of the lake. You will be able to see the fences very clearly. You will also be able to see approximately where Maiden Lane is. It really helps to see it. A lot of people seem confused about the area. Now go to Bing maps and do the same. Those maps were made in the fall so you can see some things better.

Someone technically could drive thru the grassy area off of Arbutus and back down the bike path to where the gate to the drainage pipe is. Highly unlikely because someone could come along at any moment and see them.

A vehicle could most definitely hide on Maiden Ln. To get to it the girls could have boated from the gate/jetty area or walked down the bike path further east and then cut into the wooded area.

E's purse could have been tossed over the fence from the path or it could have been tossed from a boat onto shore.

HTH. JMO

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[dovebar]

Maybe others have speculated about this, but they could have been lured more easily by a couple. Jaycee Dugard was, and so was the little girl in Canada, who was actually lured by a young woman for the purpose of her boyfriend getting to rape the little girl.

The change in the bike position make me think that it happened not only quickly, but that one of the perps actually went back and moved the bikes off the roadway - that the perps were probably in the woods by then but were confident enough about immobilizing the girls that one of them took the time to do this.

Studies do show that perps often have risk-taking brains - like daredevils, they do not perceive risk in the same way as most people in town. Another reason they disproportionately do things like take dangerous drugs. Close enough to the interstate, and with more than one perp, they find this a risk worth taking.

 

[Squeeze]

Thank you for this. I wonder how big their delivery fleet is?

They might have a "fleet" of two trucks. But I think it's just one.

 

[Jules71]

Anyone know where I can find a link to that last press briefing? I have searched and searched and can't find it. I want to go back and listen to what Abben said about the condition of the bikes and purse when found. He addressed it but I can't recall exactly what he said.

I don't have a link but yes he said the bikes were fine (when someone asked the condition of them) and he said they were found at 3:58. The purse was said to be 10 feet east of the bikes and 2 feet from the lake side of the fence. I have seen people combining this info with previous info that the purse was 20 feet from the bikes. But the most current specific info said 10 feet east and 2 feet from fence.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[otto]

Gramma on Nancy Grace -


And then another thing I want to say is down by the lake, going, not the bike path, somebody could have snatched them along the road. If there was two people in a van, they could have thrown those kids in their van with their bikes and there`s another way to drive by the houses and get to the end of that trail and they could have chunked the bikes down there with the children.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

So Gramma is saying there is/was a way to do it. Dan also said there was. They're both locals so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

Does she mean Maiden Lane? I wonder what "with the children" means.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Does she mean Maiden Lane? I wonder what "with the children" means.

I was wondering the same thing.