IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

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Copper said:
For the "boat people" (sorry, I couldn't resist), is there any basis for a boat being involved besides LE inquiring about a paddle boater on Meyer's Lake that Friday and someone living close to the lake saying something about their paddle boat having been used?

I don't completely discount a boat being used to gain the girls' trust beforehand or being used directly in the abduction. But in my mind, a boat being involved seems to complicate things so much.
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The boat people...:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
Does anyone know if and where Aunt T was/is employed?
 
Are you able to launch a boat on this lake? like a ramp? That reference to Lacy Peterson is very interesting. Body wrapped in a tarp actually be moved by hauling it away in a boat.
 
Copper said:
For the "boat people" (sorry, I couldn't resist), is there any basis for a boat being involved besides LE inquiring about a paddle boater on Meyer's Lake that Friday and someone living close to the lake saying something about their paddle boat having been used?

I don't completely discount a boat being used to gain the girls' trust beforehand or being used directly in the abduction. But in my mind, a boat being involved seems to complicate things so much.
Click to expand...

If someone had their own boat ... sure, maybe he went to the shore and took the girls. As it stands, the entire theory seems to become unnecessarily complicated if we have a perp that steals a boat, abducts the girls after ensuring that one purse is left on the shore, takes the girls across the lake or 100 feet along the shore, leaves the girls at that shore, then returns the stolen boat to the owners, and whisks the girls away by vehicle.

Why would anyone use a boat to transport two girls along a shore that is 100 feet in length. It takes only a minute to walk the distance. If the girls weren't abducted via Maiden Lane, then the alternatives are docks and the parking lot after a ride across the 27 acre lake, which would take a fair amount of time in a paddle (pedal) boat.

I honestly don't see any advantage to stealing a boat and returning it to its rightful owners in the middle of abducting two girls.
 
Beyond Belief said:
Are you able to launch a boat on this lake? like a ramp? That reference to Lacy Peterson is very interesting. Body wrapped in a tarp actually be moved by hauling it away in a boat.
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This is from a boat person, yes there is a ramp.
 
Beyond Belief said:
Are you able to launch a boat on this lake? like a ramp? That reference to Lacy Peterson is very interesting. Body wrapped in a tarp actually be moved by hauling it away in a boat.
Click to expand...

There are floating docks that were removed when the
lake was drained. Let me see if I can find a link.
 
otto said:
If someone had their own boat ... sure, maybe he went to the shore and took the girls. As it stands, the entire theory seems to become unnecessarily complicated if we have a perp that steals a boat, abducts the girls after ensuring that one purse is left on the shore, takes the girls across the lake or 100 feet along the shore, leaves the girls at that shore, then returns the stolen boat to the owners, and whisks the girls away by vehicle.

Why would anyone use a boat to transport two girls along a shore that is 100 feet in length. It takes only a minute to walk the distance. If the girls weren't abducted via Maiden Lane, then the alternatives are docks and the parking lot after a ride across the 27 acre lake, which would take a fair amount of time in a paddle (pedal) boat.

I honestly don't see any advantage to stealing a boat and returning it to its rightful owners in the middle of abducting two girls.
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OMG Otto, thats why I say maybe the house thats empty and for sale is a part of this. Who owns that house? Name?
 
Is the lake restricted to none gasoline boating, so rowboats, light sailing craft and canoes are used there and could be trailered out of there.?
 
Since we're discussing the girls going to the lake, here's a quote by Grandma Cook and the link originally posted by Palomino.
thus my being more confused.
Cook said she is "praying so hard" for the girls' safety while picking over the details of the day she last saw them, when they left for a bike ride at 11:30 a.m.

But she said they almost always stayed within blocks and had never gone to Meyers Lake, a mile away.

"It shocks me, OK. The girls never rode that far, never. It was in a two-block area, that's it. They always returned like I told them," Cook said.
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http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gran...ins-biked-lake
 
MNDad said:
If they were "carried" off and they ceased to touch the ground, I believe the sent would stop.

Edit: But I don't actually know that. Just thinking that they have to be touching something (ground) to leave a scent
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Scent doesn't work like that.

You shed scent no matter what you do, it pretty much pours off you.

So even if you leave the ground, you are still leaving a vapour trail which dogs can follow easily, whether your feet touch the ground or not.

Dogs "see" vapour trails through their noses. Imagine everyones vapour trail is made up of little green balls falling off them whereever they go...there are green balls everywhere in the world belonging to all sorts of people, but the dog is trained to see the alerted scent as RED balls.

They would no more mistake a red ball (alert) for a green ball (non alert) than you or I. (assuming you're not colour blind).

It's very interesting.

Having said that, would dragging an item of the child's clothing across the ground be enough to leave a trail?

I would think so.

:moo:
 
nervous_nellie said:
so, ollipop, what is your theory? since you are local and have been able to talk to many other locals... are most of the local theories similar? just curious... im torn between two theories... and im losing hope that these girls are coming home safely :(
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Like many in this and the surrounding communities, I'm torn between a few theories, and baffled by LE. Either they know plenty and don't feel they need further assistance, or they are completely empty and just hoping for some miraculous break. Given that there are still plenty of FBI working here, I'm leaning towards the prior.

When I first heard of the girls' disappearance, my gut told me that some other kids or someone came across their bikes somewhere else on the trail - like at the old school, the skatepark, maybe even in the parking lot out in front of the Collins' home - and, not wanting to be seen on them, much less rifling through the purse, they high-tailed it down to the "hiding spot" at the lake, where they quickly determined that nothing was of value to them, so it was all just abandoned.

I also think its possible that the girls were out on the jetty. The descriptions I've heard of the purse and bike locations does not rule out that the purse was actually on the jetty itself. A perp lured - or demanded under pretense of authority - the girls away, into the woods and the waiting vehicle. He saw them out there, skipping rocks or whatever, and made his move. He likely didn't know or care what was in the purse, it never came into play.

The idea of the "staging" of the bikes, IMO, is our collective need to rationalize the situation along some television or Hollywood style script. I seriously doubt anyone would take the time to put the bikes at the gate, when simply on the trail would suffice, or near the lake, or off in any of a million cornfields within easy reach. I'm not ruling it out, but Occam is preventing me from focusing on it.

I've talked to many locals, obviously. There is concern that a certain segment of the family seems almost non-caring, and of course that leads to people assuming they have something to do with it. And they very well may. If that is the case, I have to believe that LE is all over it. They've proven repeatedly an inability to hide from the law when needed.

I worry the girls are alive, acclimating to a new life somewhere. I also worry the girls are no longer, and fate is waiting for the fall harvest to reveal them. Either way, I worry, I worry, I worry. I'm not alone around here.

tlcox said:
Random thoughts on the purse over the fence (lakeside) with a non activated cel phone. Bear with me, just thinking out loud.

I wonder if the perp did not want to leave it on the bike trail with the bikes because the perp did not KNOW it was not activated and it appeared to be a functioning phone (ie charged). two kids' bikes left on a bike trail would not alarm me as much as happening across two kids bikes, a purple purse with a cell phone inside. Just bikes, I would assume some careless kids tossed them down there and went to explore or play. But a purse, with what appears to be someones cell phone inside - I would find that more concerning as an onlooker coming upon that scene.

Whether the bikes were or were not staged, a perp, confronted with an apparent working cell phone in an abductees purse is NOT going to want to leave that purse or phone with the bikes. They would run the risk of raising an alarm earlier and or the phone ringing in the purse, thereby bringing attention to the odd bike scene.

Assuming the perp does not know the cell phone is inactive, If the perp tossed the purse over the fence towards the lake then why leave the bikes there on the trail side at all? It would be easier to dump bikes and purse with phone all together somewhere out of the public eye where people are less likely to see them or hear a phone ring.

For that matter, why on the trail or by lake at all. If the idea is to dump the bikes after the girls were already subdued and in control from wherever abducted, then Maiden lane and that pathway into the wooded area would seem to be a better place to dump those items. Much less risk of being seen by bikers, paddleboater, fishermen, park visitors, etc. than on the bike trail and according to locals, many are not aware that area is even back there or accessible.
Click to expand...


Copper said:
I just don't see the family and their problems being directly/indirectly involved in the disappearance. It seems to me if that were so, the full power of the FBI and state/local LE could blow that wide open, especially if the family has been cooperative about that. Seems to me they'd have an immediate set of POI and possible suspects to focus like a laser in on.

The purse really hangs me up. If it wasn't for the purse, some of my more simple scenarios would work well. For instance, if the purse wasn't there on the lakeside of the fence, it would be easy to say the girls knew the perp and were lured away. The perp could easily say, "come check this out. Leave the bikes, they'll be fine." But why would they leave the purse behind if everything was okay? And if the perp knew the girls and has their trust, why discard the purse where it was found. That would imply the abduction was taking place on the trail, which would be unnecessary if he was luring them away.

The bikes on the path and the purse on the lakeside of the fence, I can see only two ways for that to happen: either the girls were taken on the spot (which I still don't like) or the bikes and purse were staged (which I think makes sense, but it carries the same risks as snatching the girls on the trail and it doesn't fit the timeline well).

I feel bad for thinking harshly of LE before about wasting time searching the lake. Something is very wrong with this case. Nothing matches up at all.
Click to expand...

Its hard for me to assume that a perp would know the contents of that purse, or that it would play into any decision he/she/they made. I agree, there are thousands of places to hide the bikes, but only one finely-focused reason to leave them right there, like that. Unless it was not an intentional staging, as in some other now-scared-shitless kids "stole" the bikes from where the girls were abducted. The problem with that theory, though, is the timeline, specifically Ted Gamerdinger's sighting.


TGIRecovered said:
The creepy camper does...he posted an online ad asking if anyone wanted to meet him there and do "it" while he fished. (Yeah, that's as gross as your pig farm!) :what:
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Well, he never mentions Meyers Lake in any ad, he is NOT an RSO, its possible friends were messing with him (like when I see someone leave their friends number on a bathroom wall), and he's been checked out by FBI, presumably. Also, I've lived on hog farms. My grandfather raised hogs, and always said they smell like money. Not to me, though. But pig farms aren't inherently gross, lol. Iowans take offense to that kind of thinking, lol. (J/K sorta.)

MNDad said:
I have a thought that I can't share because it is based on nothing, but does anyone know who DM's bail bondsman was? Or how to find out?
Click to expand...

I see where you are going. They run out of Cedar Rapids as well (sadly, I'm familiar with their services.)

nikb said:
I'm not a local, but according to Aunt T. in an article I linked earlier, there was a little boy fishing that day who said he'd been there a long time, so yes it seems like it. Although I do wonder if it's a normal, every day thing or if it's unusual to see someone fishing there.
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Come to think of it, it would be abnormal to NOT see someone fishing. It is the norm, altho not as much in the last 3-4 weeks.

Beyond Belief said:
Is that maiden lane the type place folks might use a dumping ground, old furniture, appliances or just plain trash?
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Not from what I can see. There was trash, but what I found was indicative of ppl fishing, getting drunk, etc. There was some dumped stuff, but not much.

threecrazykids said:
Not so sure LE ever stated anything official about the dogs. I believe everything regarding what the dogs did or didn't do came from the family accounts...which they know NOTHING about reading the dogs and whether them going into the wooded area meant anything or not. Only a professional handler would be able to tell if they were even actively following a scent trail or maybe even trying to search for a scent? I don't know...

IF the dogs DID go into the wooded area and the scent stopped immediately one could assume that is where the girls were taken (possibly into a vehicle) where the dogs could no longer track the scent.

I can tell you one thing I don't like (which I know they can't) is that LE has really given the public ZERO confirmation of anything other than the video of the girls and 3:58 bikes found. That is just not enough for any of us to go off of...which also may be the reason they are still grasping for answers. I think for people to have the slightest incling to help they are going to have to have a reason to call. At this point I think the only people they would ever get to help are those who have already helped...sadly :(
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No link, but I thought Breault went on record about the line the dogs took. Maybe I'm confused.

tlcox said:
a bit behind so sorry if you've already been answered. We have no knowledge that the girls had been going to the area. Family claims they knew better than to stray that far. We have speculated that, as many of us did in childhood, the girls may have been exploring beyond their proscribed boundaries without the adults being aware. As far as I know there have been no reports that the girls were regular visitors at the lake.
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There was a late incident on TV where Aunt T seemed to contradict Gramma, saying that neighbor girls rode there alot, and so the girls definitely knew of it. On JVM, I thought. Seemed odd to finally hear of it at that time.

Sorry for my repeated multi-quote megaposts. Trying to juggle SuperDad duties while not allowing myself to fall behind by 20 pages.
 
Beyond Belief said:
Is the lake restricted to none gasoline boating, so rowboats, light sailing craft and canoes are used there and could be trailered out of there.?
Click to expand...

Its so small so Id say no motor boats. Not sure though.
 
Beyond Belief said:
Is the lake restricted to none gasoline boating, so rowboats, light sailing craft and canoes are used there and could be trailered out of there.?
Click to expand...

If this lake is like the lakes in Maryland, boaters and fisherman
can use a trolling motor and fuel for it. Not large motors.
 
Did Mistys boyfriend (not husband) take a poly? If not, he darn well should.
 
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