IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[GrainneDhu]

I keep thinking about this, too.

If this perp was grooming one of the girls online through their FB accounts or Moshi Monsters or whatever, maybe he did not expect his intended victim to bring her cousin and had to act fast to nab both girls instead of the one.

OR.... if this was a "white van" grab, possibly the perp felt extra bold because he had been watching the girls for a day or two and figured he had a good chance at grabbing them since they rode down those pretty deserted areas by themselves.

OR....maybe he just didn't give a fig and grabbed them, not caring. Maybe he has an accomplice, which makes me think of a pedo/*advertiser censored* ring more than a assault situation.

Oy, I need more coffee.

I doubt that this was the result of an internet grooming. LE has all the computers the family had (including some that weren't being used anymore) and it would have been quickly apparent had either of the girls had unexplained contact with someone. I think that whatever LE found on the computers, it did not show any signs of grooming.

What I would be most interested in knowing is if anyone had been approached in a friendly way by a stranger anywhere in town in the week before the girls disappeared. Particularly if that approach started out without witnesses but ended after witnesses came upon the scene.

You know, someone who works at a hospitality business where people do a lot of talking, like, oh, say, a bar could possibly gather some interesting information with a care not to guide or lead potential witnesses. Wonder if we know anyone like that? <whistling innocently>

 

[brighidin]

New.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...nformation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage

"FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said authorities have leads that make them believe the girls are still alive, but Ceilley said it’s hard for friends and family to hear day after day that no new information is available.

“The FBI’s got nothing,” he said. “It’s the same story every time they meet with them.”

Breault said the most important thing is for people to keep providing information"

So LE is telling the family day after day that they believe the girls are alive?

No. The family hears day after day that no new information is available.

 

[brighidin]

I hope LE and the FBI are monitoring Internet "dark nets" and on the lookout for the girls on inappropriate web sites. Some "dark nets" illegal guns, any drug imaginable, child *advertiser censored*, etc can be purchased and traded. This does seem more and more like something organized and the girls being alive = $$$ to the perps.

I guess it could be what happened, along with a few other scenarios. I haven't seen anything that points to this being organized? What are you basing this on? Thanks!

 

[SeeMamaRun]

Sorry for the earlier negativity. Let's start at square one. What do we know that is confirmed by LE?

Lyric & Elizabeth left the Collins' house at 11:30 on their bikes. Their grandma watched them go and told them not to be gone long because she and Lyric needed to be back in Waterloo by 1:30

The girls were seen sometime between 12:11 & 12:19 on the CCTV installed at Cornbelt Auctions. They were headed West by Northwest on Brovan Blvd (away from the Colllins home, towards River Forest Rd and the Cedar River)

The girls' bikes were found on the trial in the south east corner of Meyers Lake around 4 pm. Elizabeth's purse & cell phone were found on the opposite side of the lakeside fence.

LE/FBI will not confirm or deny if the girls were ever actually at the lake on the 13 but they decide to drain the lake to rule out the possibility that the girls may have drowned.

July 20: Officials announce that the girls are not in the lake and that they were abducted.

July 21: FBI claims to have physical evidence that the girls are alive. The evidence was sent to a crime lab in Ankeny Iowa

Source: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/

What else has LE confirmed regarding the girls?

What physical evidence (something sent to a lab) would lead investigators to believe the girls are alive?

1. (ransom) letter
2. dated photo
3. ???

Who would abduct 2 girls and keep them alive? What are the motives?

1. Family looking for sympathy/money
2. someone who believes a family member owes them money
3. someone who wants some level of control over a family member
4. someone who wants to hurt a family member
5. someone who wants a 2nd wife/sex slave (like Jaycee Dugard)
6. someone who can make money by selling people into pedo rings or slavery
7. ???

 

[tlcya]

&#8220;We believe the girls are alive, and we are not discouraged by the passage of time,&#8221; Breault told reporters at the Evansdale Community Response Center Saturday.

snip

Police will only say that &#8220;physical evidence&#8221; was found relating to the girls, but wouldn&#8217;t say if it was found by police, the dive teams or by the search dogs brought in to canvass the area near Meyers Lake, where the two went missing July 13.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/mi...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

I am still not convinced that the physical evidence found and being analyzed is tied to LE believing the girls is alive. I have never seen FBI spokesperson link the two items in her quotes. I have seen reporters link the two as well as the public, but I have never seen a direct quote from any authority that the belief the girls are alive is tied to the physical evidence LE has gathered.

from Abben we have:

"Investigators are confident that the two girls are not in Meyers Lake," Abben said.

Abben said investigators have also "obtained evidence" that was forwarded to the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation lab in Ankeny.

He would not say when or how the evidence was obtained. He also said there are no suspects.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/mi...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[elepher50]

I think there are still tips coming in from the public and LE are following up on them. With the pending harvesting of the crops (drought ridden) there may be more activity around the area which will provide more clues.

I have no clues as to the whereabouts of Elizabeth and Lyric and have no speculations either. I do constantly think about them and let my thoughts go over what we know and we do not know much.

The only thoughts that have been consistent in my thinking is that Elizabeth and Lyric were abducted prior to reaching the lake and it is possible that other children grabbed their bikes and drove them to the lake and ditched them. I read with interest the shenanigans of some of the family and drug use, etc but really do not think that their abduction was directly drug related. Meaning I don't think the parents are involved in their abduction.

This is all so very sad and hopefully the girls will be found alive and okay however as time passes imo there is no way that the girls can come out of this unscathed one way or the other. Meaning if they are found alive, a month with captors will have a lasting effect.

Why the silence by the family and LE = dunno, however I do not feel that the case has gone cold.

Bless these children and bring them home to their families where they so rightfully belong.

eleph

 

[Confusion]

I'm going to try one more time to get some of my thoughts out here clearly enough to actually get answers to my questions and/or comments on my ideas, rather than just someone going off on a tangent about one unimportant detail like usually happens.

1. I'd still be interested in knowing if TG rides the bike trail during lunch time every day, or at least most days. Does anyone know?

2. The bikes are one thing that make me think this was planned, and both girls were wanted.

a) If a person grabbed them in town and wanted to move the bikes to shift the focus of LE, why pick a spot where they were so likely to be spotted? If it was spur of the moment, there'd be no way of knowing that nobody would come by and see them driving up or walking the bikes to the gate; if it was planned, why not plan to take them to the river or somewhere else that would shift focus but not be so busy? If they were complete psychopaths and don't care if their seen like has been suggested, then why bother staging the bikes at all?

b) If they were taken at the lake, where would the person have waited that was hidden enough to avoid being seen by anyone passing by (and by the girls before they were grabbed) but close enough to get to the girls and grab them before they were out of reach?

3. If the bikes TG saw didn't belong to the girls, why haven't the owners of those bikes (or their friends or parents) come forward and said so?

4. If they weren't the girls' bikes, does the sighting by Mr. C. mean anything?

5. Is it possible that the reason WC was so sure the girls never went that far because they never did when she was there? Mrs. C. said they see them, especially Elizabeth, almost every night; do they only see Lyric with her on nights when she's spending the night?

I have a lot more questions, but I have a feeling that only the perp/s (and the girls if they're still with us) know the true answers.

 

[Beyond Belief]

We live in an area with alot of small lakes, the only thing I see kids doing via a bike is coming to feed the ducks.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Various posters have said that they think the family is being silent but I just don't see it that way. It seems to me that every single time I read a local media story, there's a quote from the family (usually the Collinses). That's not being silent.

I agree that the national media is not covering the story now. But that was inevitable once the flow of information from LE dried up.

That does not mean the family is being silent. It just means that the days when all they had to do to get on TV was to answer the phone and say "yes" are over. Unless a person is in the middle of the media frenzy, it's just not that easy to get on national TV.

Sadly, I think the families have joined the huge crowd of families out there who have missing loved ones (of any age, not just children) who would love to be on TV to plead their case... but who get, at most, a "don't call us, we'll call you" response. And really, it's more than just the families of the missing. It's families who have a loved one who needs a transplant (particularly one that can be done via a living donor). It's families who have a loved one who has a rare disease that needs a lot more funding into research for a cure.

So many really good causes and so little media exposure to hand out.

 

[Beyond Belief]

When something violent happens in our surrounding area, I seem to come across more people talking and sharing information at of all places, yard/garage sales. I wish they could do something down in that neighborhood that would get the folks out of their houses and talking. Even if they are only sharing rumours, something might surface.

 

[Wishbone]

Various posters have said that they think the family is being silent but I just don't see it that way. It seems to me that every single time I read a local media story, there's a quote from the family (usually the Collinses). That's not being silent.

I agree that the national media is not covering the story now. But that was inevitable once the flow of information from LE dried up.

That does not mean the family is being silent. It just means that the days when all they had to do to get on TV was to answer the phone and say "yes" are over. Unless a person is in the middle of the media frenzy, it's just not that easy to get on national TV.

Sadly, I think the families have joined the huge crowd of families out there who have missing loved ones (of any age, not just children) who would love to be on TV to plead their case... but who get, at most, a "don't call us, we'll call you" response. And really, it's more than just the families of the missing. It's families who have a loved one who needs a transplant (particularly one that can be done via a living donor). It's families who have a loved one who has a rare disease that needs a lot more funding into research for a cure.

So many really good causes and so little media exposure to hand out.

I check in on JVM, NG and Dr Drew but can't believe the stories they are covering lately. Nothing to do with the missing just an hour of rehashing how some doctor might have poisoned his wife until she got wise....give me a break.

 

[gregjrichards]

Positive thougths everyone. The weekend is upon us, more people are moving around in thier daily lives, hopefully some type of clues will surface.
I truly hope all sales in the area for duck tape, shovel, etc. were checked for the 13th. I hope every scrap of paper in the crime area was looked at carefully to see if the perp accidently disgarded it hoping for a clue.
Pray, think positive thoughts that these two little one come home safe.

I also hope that people were vigilant about someone in the hospitals/doctors or at work etc with scratches, bruises or bite marks on them. This was important information in finding Mickey's killer. I know that two girls would not be able to inflict the injurys that a young woman could though but they could still have fought back in some way.

It must be agony for the girls families to have no news each day.

 

[GrainneDhu]

1. I'd still be interested in knowing if TG rides the bike trail during lunch time every day, or at least most days. Does anyone know?

2. The bikes are one thing that make me think this was planned, and both girls were wanted.

a) If a person grabbed them in town and wanted to move the bikes to shift the focus of LE, why pick a spot where they were so likely to be spotted? If it was spur of the moment, there'd be no way of knowing that nobody would come by and see them driving up or walking the bikes to the gate; if it was planned, why not plan to take them to the river or somewhere else that would shift focus but not be so busy? If they were complete psychopaths and don't care if their seen like has been suggested, then why bother staging the bikes at all?

b) If they were taken at the lake, where would the person have waited that was hidden enough to avoid being seen by anyone passing by (and by the girls before they were grabbed) but close enough to get to the girls and grab them before they were out of reach?

3. If the bikes TG saw didn't belong to the girls, why haven't the owners of those bikes (or their friends or parents) come forward and said so?

4. If they weren't the girls' bikes, does the sighting by Mr. C. mean anything?

5. Is it possible that the reason WC was so sure the girls never went that far because they never did when she was there? Mrs. C. said they see them, especially Elizabeth, almost every night; do they only see Lyric with her on nights when she's spending the night?

I have a lot more questions, but I have a feeling that only the perp/s (and the girls if they're still with us) know the true answers.

Snark SBM

1) I am sure TG's family knows if he used the trail regularly but they aren't talking. Or else they'd love to talk but no one in the media is interested in listening. Considering TG's ease with the media, I consider the second possibility more likely.

2b) In this scenario, I think the perp was hidden in plain sight. By being reasonably clean and well groomed, wearing clothing appropriate for recreational walking and giving a smile to anyone who passed by. I wouldn't be surprised if one or more people saw the perp on or near the trail and saw nothing to make it stick in their memory. If the perp had a particular look out place, they may have blended in by pretending to do stretches or adjust a shoe whenever someone who did not fit the perp's profile went by.

3) If the bicycles that TG saw did not belong to Elizabeth and Lyric, we don't know that the owners have not spoken to LE. All we know is that they haven't spoken to the media or that the media didn't see fit to include them in coverage. LE almost always asks witnesses not to speak to the media.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I wonder if they found a recent pile of cigarett butts, perp lying in wait might have a tendency to smoke a bit.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I check in on JVM, NG and Dr Drew but can't believe the stories they are covering lately. Nothing to do with the missing just an hour of rehashing how some doctor might have poisoned his wife until she got wise....give me a break.

I'm not familiar with the story and I don't have a TV. But just in that one sentence description, I can see how that story would be enticing to the more, ah, tabloid style shows.

Doctors are supposed to be ethical and it's a huge transgression when a particular one turns out not to be. Husbands and wives are assumed to be able to trust each other in ordinary life. Poison is stereotypically a woman's method of harming others, so a man suspected of poisoning is like the guy who bites the dog.

All sorts of angles there and some of them fairly salacious. For instance, were they sleeping together before and during the period he was supposedly poisoning her? How could someone fake the sort of every day trustworthiness that keeps someone living at home versus going to a shelter?

Until something else breaks in this case, the media has gnawed over the interesting bits.

Ugh, I just realised something. It was better for the investigation for MCM and DM to reconsider cooperation with LE but it was not better for media exposure. If they had held out on their lawyer's advice and quit talking entirely, all those shows would have gone on having a field day with them.

Ironic, isn't it?

 

[Athena12]

People magazine has an article about the girls this week. It's on pages 77-78. I can't find it online, so if you want to read it you'll have to buy the mag or browse in the checkout lane. :smile:

There's not much new info - the only thing that jumped out at me is that the article states the time the bikes were found was 3:40, not 3:58. Other than that, it's just a rehash of things we already know.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Oh, Confusion, I hate to see you go, . I have been here for years and have been dumped on more than I can remember. Its jsut part of this I guess. Take a break and remember this is a very emotional roller coaster ride you have climbed onto by coming in here. You just have to toughen up a bit unfortunately.

 

[Wishbone]

I'm not familiar with the story and I don't have a TV. But just in that one sentence description, I can see how that story would be enticing to the more, ah, tabloid style shows.

Doctors are supposed to be ethical and it's a huge transgression when a particular one turns out not to be. Husbands and wives are assumed to be able to trust each other in ordinary life. Poison is stereotypically a woman's method of harming others, so a man suspected of poisoning is like the guy who bites the dog.

All sorts of angles there and some of them fairly salacious. For instance, were they sleeping together before and during the period he was supposedly poisoning her? How could someone fake the sort of every day trustworthiness that keeps someone living at home versus going to a shelter?

Until something else breaks in this case, the media has gnawed over the interesting bits.

Ugh, I just realised something. It was better for the investigation for MCM and DM to reconsider cooperation with LE but it was not better for media exposure. If they had held out on their lawyer's advice and quit talking entirely, all those shows would have gone on having a field day with them.

Ironic, isn't it?

I can't address any of the questions you have, except the good doctor was possibly putting barium in his dear wife's coffee. Seems she had been feeling sick for an extended period of time and had noticed him putting something in her coffee when he so lovingly made it for her. I had to turn it off........

 

[brighidin]

Various posters have said that they think the family is being silent but I just don't see it that way. It seems to me that every single time I read a local media story, there's a quote from the family (usually the Collinses). That's not being silent.

I agree that the national media is not covering the story now. But that was inevitable once the flow of information from LE dried up.

That does not mean the family is being silent. It just means that the days when all they had to do to get on TV was to answer the phone and say "yes" are over. Unless a person is in the middle of the media frenzy, it's just not that easy to get on national TV.

Sadly, I think the families have joined the huge crowd of families out there who have missing loved ones (of any age, not just children) who would love to be on TV to plead their case... but who get, at most, a "don't call us, we'll call you" response. And really, it's more than just the families of the missing. It's families who have a loved one who needs a transplant (particularly one that can be done via a living donor). It's families who have a loved one who has a rare disease that needs a lot more funding into research for a cure.

So many really good causes and so little media exposure to hand out.

Viewers like the feel good stories, but I think they like watching MC and DM and their issues. The manic ramblings of TB got the media's attention and got everyone talking. Clearly Drew and Heather are heartbroken, but being sad and calling for forgiveness don't catch and keep the attention of JVM and the like.

Once TB et al. were reigned in, the media interest dried up. Too bad.
(Maybe I shouldn't have characterized TB's interviews as manic ramblings, but i can't think of any better descriptors right now. Not meant to be insensitive towards her.)

***************
One perp or two...they can't have stumped everyone! Where are those girls???

 

[Beyond Belief]

I wish there was something we could do to stir up some kind of interest in this story. Isn't there a truckers organization that broadcasts missing kids? Was that done?