IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[otto]

A couple of things lead me to credit Mr. C's sighting. Mrs. C said that she saw Elizabeth 'every night' so its not just Mr. C who believes the little girl is Elizabeth. And, they describe Elizabeth's personality the same way her family and teacher do. Outgoing, talkative and friendly. MOO

Is it possible that Elizabeth was on Lake Avenue every evening, talking with the neighbors? It seems unusual. Wasn't she with her family in the evening, or did her family think she was on a bike ride with the neighbors and not realize it meant Meyers Lake?

 

[Jax49]

I think that confirms that the bikes were at the double gate next to the drainage pipe.

Which makes me think maybe they were left there (staged or not) to hint the girls were in the water, hoping to slow down wider searches. Maybe? IDK

 

[SapphireSteel]

Mr. Pahl said that, but I haven't seen any official source stating that. I find that curious, since this video is the last known sighting of Lyric and Elizabeth. It was thoroughly reviewed by the FBI, yet the FBI has not stated that the time should be 12:19 rather than 12:11. It seems to me that 8 minutes would make a HUGE difference, especially if the bikes TG swerved to miss at 12:20 (approx) belonged to the girls.

Either LE thinks Mr. Pahl is mistaken about the 8 minute time difference, or they don't think the video is that important, IMO.

ETA: link to story about video and Mr. Pahl: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

Agreed...BUT...

We don't just have Mr P and Mr C...we ALSO have Mr G.

Three men independantly of each other, who believe they saw what they saw, when they saw it, and have exactly ZERO reason to lie/be inaccurate.

We also have gramma and Aunt T combing the streets from 12.30.

IMO they would have found the girls at this time, if the girls were about to be found.

 

[Marilynilpa]

yes..good point and its an important one because it establishes the start of the timeline. if its 12:11 it works...if its 12:19 it doesnt

Absolutely, those are 8 very important minutes, IMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Interesting thought, but I believe they said that the guy in the van was there about 2 pm and TG would have been there before 12:30

Have you got a link for that?

Tia.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Agreed...BUT...

We don't just have Mr P and Mr C...we ALSO have Mr G.

Three men independantly of each other, who believe they saw what they saw, when they saw it, and have exactly ZERO reason to lie/be inaccurate.

We also have gramma and Aunt T combing the streets from 12.30.

IMO they would have found the girls at this time, if the girls were about to be found.

I agree with you that TG, Mr. C and Mr. P have no known reason to lie, and I am not suggesting they are. However, how can we say they have zero reason to be inaccurate? You don't need to have a reason to be inaccurate, you are just mistaken or incorrect. Maybe you just don't recall things right, your timing is off, you are mistaken about the day, etc.

Please don't take this as criticism, since I tend to agree with most of your posts. I just think that putting too much emphasis on sightings that LE is not taking into consideration (at least officially) is confusing the issues somewhat.

Having said that, regardless of any video or other sighting, I think whatever happened to Lyric and Elizabeth took place probably prior to 1:30, since I doubt Lyric wanted to get into trouble again by being late getting home. JMO

 

[hambirg]

So there's a Caseys on the corner of River Forest Road and Lafayette?

The address I was given earlier in this thread was off of River Forest Road and Gilbert.

I figure that can mean two things. LE thinks the girls road down River Forest toward the lake. . .or it was just simply a parameter type search of the lake area.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Interesting thought, but I believe they said that the guy in the van was there about 2 pm and TG would have been there before 12:30

He SAYS he was there at 12:20. We are only going off his word, which happens to put a HUGE wrench in the timeline. I would love to know what gas station he peed at. LOL. I will bet you $5 it was Casey's on River Forest.

 

[Wishbone]

Have you got a link for that?

Tia.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault says the man and a white van had been seen at an Evansdale convenience store about 2 p.m. July 13, two hours before firefighters found the bicycles of 9-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric. The man spoke to investigators on Wednesday

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-surveillance-photos-speaks-to-authorities/

 

[Sunlight]

If you throw out TG's time(s), and Mr. C's time(s), as LE has apparently done; and you are not sure if Gma was accurate about 11:30, and you're not sure of the cctv time....well.......all you have is the time when the bikes were found at 3:58. Only the abductor(s) and the girls know what happened and when, unless LE has definite evidence that they claim to have that led them to believe the girls are/were still alive. They just don't apparently know where they are at this time. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

I agree with you that TG, Mr. C and Mr. P have no known reason to lie, and I am not suggesting they are. However, how can we say they have zero reason to be inaccurate? You don't need to have a reason to be inaccurate, you are just mistaken or incorrect. Maybe you just don't recall things right, your timing is off, you are mistaken about the day, etc.

Please don't take this as criticism, since I tend to agree with most of your posts. I just think that putting too much emphasis on sightings that LE is not taking into consideration (at least officially) is confusing the issues somewhat.

Having said that, regardless of any video or other sighting, I think whatever happened to Lyric and Elizabeth took place probably prior to 1:30, since I doubt Lyric wanted to get into trouble again by being late getting home. JMO

Just my way of addressing those who insist on saying the three are wrong/mistaken/lying/whatever.

I don't think they are. One witness, maybe, two or three of them? No way.

If we don't go on conjecture and UNOFFICIAL info in this one, we may as well shut the thread down now.

In my opinion the only thing that DOES make sense is the 8 minutes...otherwise why didn't gramma find them? She said herself the girls never went far, Lizzie especially obeyed her rules, so based on that theory she would've found them hurriedly biking home panicking about being late and in trouble.

:moo:

 

[Confusion]

For some reason my edit made a new post, so I'm removing the original one.

 

[Sunlight]

The address I was given earlier in this thread was off of River Forest Road and Gilbert.

I figure that can mean two things. LE thinks the girls road down River Forest toward the lake. . .or it was just simply a parameter type search of the lake area.

Or...they may have been trying to get info about someone else or other people or things or connections..not mentioned in this thread. MOO

 

[hollyblue]

The bing maps aren't opening for me. That doesn't mean much, since my computer is temperamental ... but I can't see them. Is this a question about the route taken by the cyclist? I don't think that really matters. He rode his bike from home to the trail regularly and since there's a loop around the lake, I doubt he doubled back on the trail at any time. Where he was before and after doesn't matter much since he was on his bike ... hardly the getaway vehicle for abducting 2 girls in about 6 minutes.

No I was going from the view point of the girls riding from home to the lake. Here's a Google map ending at the entrance of the northside trail. My computer is wacky too....try refreshing once the bing map comes up and it looks like it's trying to load. I've had that happen tonight almost each time I'm working with it. OT....I'm having a heck a time with Smilies when trying to bring up the whole page. It gets stuck and takes a over a minute to load. Anyone else have that problem? tia Here's G map:

http://goo.gl/maps/BPu8D

 

[SapphireSteel]

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault says the man and a white van had been seen at an Evansdale convenience store about 2 p.m. July 13, two hours before firefighters found the bicycles of 9-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric. The man spoke to investigators on Wednesday

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-surveillance-photos-speaks-to-authorities/

Thanks for that, I had been looking for the time of the white van.

One thing intrigued me, when they first put out the request for the driver to contact them...IIRC they said that the driver

"has information"

not that he may have, or they would like to eliminate him, but that he definitely knew something. It was strong, decisive language and made me believe that they were definitely hunting a white van.

Of course I can't find those original articles...

:banghead:

If anyone has a link, I would appreciate it.

 

[Confusion]

Have you got a link for that?

Tia.

I KNEW someone would ask that! I'll look for it and get back to you.

ETA
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-surveillance-photos-speaks-to-authorities/

 

[hambirg]

Otto, I tried to map it this way from 166 Brovan and could get as far as the north entry to the trail on Gilbert. It was 4 minutes, then you have to consider the time to get around the lake to the gate. I tried to skim by taking it to I-380 just below the gate area, but the map wanted to take it to the next exit east. :banghead:

Are you using directions for a bike? I was able to map from the middle of Brovan to the area of the gate to the jetty area doing it this way. I got 1.3 miles, 8 minutes. HTH

 

[hollyblue]

Have you got a link for that?

Tia.

Breault said the man in the photo went into the Casey's store at 1038 River Forest Road in Evansdale at about 2 p.m. July 13. That's about two hours after the girls were seen leaving a relative's house, and about two hours before firefighters found their bicycles near a bike trial on the southeast edge of Meyers Lake

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120801/NEWS/120801044

 

[Confusion]

Breault said the man in the photo went into the Casey's store at 1038 River Forest Road in Evansdale at about 2 p.m. July 13. That's about two hours after the girls were seen leaving a relative's house, and about two hours before firefighters found their bicycles near a bike trial on the southeast edge of Meyers Lake

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120801/NEWS/120801044

THought we were posting the same link, but they're actually different sources.

 

[hollyblue]

If you throw out TG's time(s), and Mr. C's time(s), as LE has apparently done; and you are not sure if Gma was accurate about 11:30, and you're not sure of the cctv time....well.......all you have is the time when the bikes were found at 3:58. Only the abductor(s) and the girls know what happened and when, unless LE has definite evidence that they claim to have that led them to believe the girls are/were still alive. They just don't apparently know where they are at this time. MOO

Agree. I believe the FBI did synchronize all the time periods in question also. They know, but haven't released it.