IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[otto]

Closer to the end of the video, note Grandma's face as she describes how the girls played together 'every day'. She says that they would come over and 'clean'. Immediately after she says clean, her mien changes....as though maybe she feels guilty about something. A Freudian slip, perhaps? Then she regains her composure and changes the subject.

I just think it is interesting.

Yes, she says that the girls came over every day to clean. Then she talks about all the other things they did ... hair, nails, make-up, playing Mario ... what I'm hearing is that the girls had structured days where they had chores and were cared for by extended family while the parents sorted through health, employment, substance abuse and other problems.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Within context, the grandmother is being asked to describe the two girls. She doesn't seem to be talking about Lyric being clumsy or awkward ... it's more like she is describing Lyric as fearlessly making decisions without thinking them through.

Lizzie: "chatter, chatter, chatter ... she's so loving and bubbly and ..."
Lyric: "... would definitely be the leader, for one she's older, she has no fear, she's the bull in the china shop, to get lost in the woods so what, let go this direction and we're going, and we'll see where we come out on the other end, if that doesn't work, we'll turn around, we'll go a different direction"

time: 6:21
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

:shocked2:

I need to see the transcript to that interview! Does anyone have a link?

So many questions...:what:

 

[otto]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

 

[Reverie]

Yes, she says that the girls came over every day to clean. Then she talks about all the other things they did ... hair, nails, make-up, playing Mario ... what I'm hearing is that the girls had structured days where they had chores and were cared for by extended family while the parents sorted through health, employment, substance abuse and other problems.

Okay. I simply find that her only pause in the video is so lengthy, right after she she mentions 'cleaning the house'......as if she did not want to finish discussing what the girls do there. JMVOHO

I get your point, though. When I was diagnosed with ms, I put on a very brave face for my young children.

 

[Reverie]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

So sorry, Otto. Hope all is well now.

 

[winterrose]

Closer to the end of the video, note Grandma's face as she describes how the girls played together 'every day'. She says that they would come over and 'clean'. Immediately after she says clean, her mien changes....as though maybe she feels guilty about something. A Freudian slip, perhaps? Then she regains her composure and changes the subject.

I just think it is interesting.

I guess they did chores at both grandmother's homes everyday then. Or,now that I hear the talk of chores at DM's mother's house, makes me wonder if this is where she got in trouble by her father about not doing chores. So doing chores at where he lives appears to not have been voluntary, or she wouldn't have gotten into trouble for not doing them. Being this was only a few days before her disappearance, maybe that's why the grandmother's demeanor changed at that point. Just a thought, and why would she want to run away from her other Grandmother's house, because she got in trouble, guess we'll not know.

 

[Sunlight]

I've certainly jumped around with my theory, but if the cyclist really did see the bikes and we can't place a blind curve, or the photos of the cyclist talking with police, at the double gate, then it's quite possible he saw the bikes at another location on the trail. It would be rather unusual for there to be two sets of children that left their bikes on the trail that day, so it was most likely one set of children.

If we're working with cell phone tiime, the video was taken at 12:19 and the latest the cyclist saw the bikes would be at 12:25. That leave 4-6 minutes, which is perhaps enough time for the girls to ride immediately south from Brovan and drop their bikes somewhere on the west end of the trail ... it's still a tight timeline. However, if the girls dropped their bikes, explored, then rode them further down the trail, that explains the "on the path" and "leaning on the fence" as well.

Which leaves him 2 minutes to get to the WC and make the call, etc. His timeline came into play prior to the release of the pesky cctv video. I'm really trying, but so far I don't see it. MOO

 

[callyn]

Within context, the grandmother is being asked to describe the two girls. She doesn't seem to be talking about Lyric being clumsy or awkward ... it's more like she is describing Lyric as fearlessly making decisions without thinking them through.

Lizzie: "chatter, chatter, chatter ... she's so loving and bubbly and ..."
Lyric: "... would definitely be the leader, for one she's older, she has no fear, she's the bull in the china shop, to get lost in the woods so what, let go this direction and we're going, and we'll see where we come out on the other end, if that doesn't work, we'll turn around, we'll go a different direction"

time: 6:21
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

Yes, I realized what grandmother meant. Was just commenting on the different meaning in different parts of the country.

 

[dotr]

Concerning the false sighting of the girls as previously posted.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...bout-missing-Iowa-girls-checked-out-dismissed
A convenience store clerk alerted law enforcement authorities Thursday that a girl who resembled one of the missing Iowa cousins had been at the store.


A Jasper County sheriff’s deputy located the vehicle and quizzed the driver, who said he was the girl’s father and after a little more investigation, authorities let the two leave.


The tip was one of just hundreds authorities have followed up on since July 13 when Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and her cousin Elizabeth Collins, 9, disappeared.


FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault declined to say how many tips officials have received or how many of the tips are actual sightings of the girls. She said doing so would hinder the investigation.


“The last thing we want to do is discourage people from calling,” Breault said. “We want as many calls as possible because sometimes they’ll think there’s only a remote chance it means something and it turns out to be significant

 

[iamnotagolem]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

First off, I'm so sorry you had to endure something so stressful and painful. I totally agree with you that sometimes it's more practical to hold it together for the sake of your family and other children.

For me, if I start to lose it, I totally lose it. My son was recently diagnosed with Autism. Most people I know think that I've handled it like finding out a child has a fever. But I started blogging to help deal with the emotions, the pain, and the stress involved. Once my friends started reading my blog they realized that I'm not an emotionless, heartless person. I just can't let the pain and stress dictate my entire life. For the most part I keep all of my emotions and feelings off of FB so that I'm not bringing people down, I'd rather stay positive and happy and just use my blog as a way to express my emotions.

I didn't mean to write a novel, I just can understand the family looking happy and normal from the outside but inwardly they are probably terrified that they can only keep up appearances for so long before totally falling apart. My heart goes out to them, every last one of them. Drugs or not they do not deserve this and the pain has got to be unbearable.

 

[dotr]

Yes, I realized what grandmother meant. Was just commenting on the different meaning in different parts of the country.

Also heard that saying in reference to someone who lacks tact and who says things bluntly, or even rudely when "kid gloves" are required.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Which leaves him 2 minutes to get to the WC and make the call, etc. His timeline came into play prior to the release of the pesky cctv video. I'm really trying, but so far I don't see it. MOO

I believe TG swerved around the bikes at approx. 12:20. He based this on the time he called his daughter (12:27) and going backwards from that time to figure out when he'd seen the bikes. So that would give him 7 minutes to get to the bathroom, call his daughter, etc., after seeing the bikes on the trail.

I think TG saw two bikes at approx. 12:20 that day, but not necessarily the girls' two bikes. That doesn't seem likely, but it is possible, and I think that is the reason LE does not use TG's sighting in their official timeline. JMO

ETA: What puzzles me the most is how the bikes got to the trail by 12:20 (approx. time)?

 

[otto]

I guess they did chores at both grandmother's homes everyday then. Or,now that I hear the talk of chores at DM's mother's house, makes me wonder if this is where she got in trouble by her father about not doing chores. So doing chores at where he lives appears to not have been voluntary, or she wouldn't have gotten into trouble for not doing them. Being this was only a few days before her disappearance, maybe that's why the grandmother's demeanor changed at that point. Just a thought, and why would she want to run away from her other Grandmother's house, because she got in trouble, guess we'll not know.

Lyric's dad lives with his mother, as does his 16 year old son (Lyric's half brother). Lyric and Elizabeth went there every day to clean up. Lyric may have been kind of playing her maternal grandmother against her dad since she told the one that she had to do chores at the home of the other. It does seem a bit unusual since she didn't even live there. If I were the reporter I would have asked whether Lyric and Elizabeth were paid something for cleaning her house.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I found it very informative...so much so that I would love a transcript to run it through some statement analysis...might have to type one up myself!

:doh:

It is fact that some people present grief, terror and anxiety by behaving like they don't have a care in the world.

 

[ShyViolet]

BBM
I've only heard and used "bull in a china shop" to mean clumsy. As a bull in a china shop would be knocking things over and breaking things. I live in California, it's interesting how these sayings have such different meanings in different areas. (I suppose a bull in a china shop would be considered impulsive and not considering the consequences of his decision to enter said shop) :hills:

I have always thought of it as clumsy as well. ETA-as in physically or verbally.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/bull+in+a+china+shop.html

 

[callyn]

Also heard that saying in reference to someone who lacks tact and who says things bluntly, or even rudely when "kid's gloves" are required.

I've been reading up on the meaning and have found that it certainly has a broader meaning than I ever knew. Love to learn new things! I may be old but not too old to learn.:dance:

 

[winterrose]

Lyric's dad lives with his mother, as does his 16 year old son (Lyric's half brother). Lyric and Elizabeth went there every day to clean up. Lyric may have been kind of playing her maternal grandmother against her dad since she told the one that she had to do chores at the home of the other. It does seem a bit unusual since she didn't even live there. If I were the reporter I would have asked whether Lyric and Elizabeth were paid something for cleaning her house.

I know DM and the son lived with his mother,as Misty lived with her mother. Since it's assumption Lyric was playing her grandmother against her Dad, she was upset enough to pack a bag and was going to the door. That's a little more than playing, since it was important for WC to even mention this to a reporter, it was obviously upsetting to this grandma. I don't know if the girls were paid, but DM didn't have a job and an older son living there. The girls didn't live there, so I hope they were paid.

 

[otto]

MNDad, if you have time, could you please do one of those cool google earth videos from the Auction shop camera, following the sidewalks ... west on Brovan, south on River Forest Road, East on Central, South on Jones and onto the bike trail as far as the double gate at the drainage pipe? I'm curious about the time that would take, but also don't know how to do bike times on maps.

 

[hambirg]

This has been lingering in my mind all day, so I'm just going to bring it up again. This CL guy who bikes everywhere and looks for random anonymous sex still bothers me. Things we know about him. . .he frequents the bike trails, he was living in the campground, he likes to fish and apparently have sex "in the woods."
He labeled himself as "desperate" in some of his CL ads. He had a puppy shortly before the girls vanished that he was trying to find a home for because he was going to have to move. I believe he is now posting similar looking for sex on bike trails ads, but around George Wyth Lake.

I know that he might not have anything to do with the girls disappearance and I would assume or hope that LE and FBI have already checked him out, but just so many factors seem to line up and appear so overwhelmingly convenient, KWIM?

My train of thought is that he could have been at the lake that day. . .fishing or just riding around, with the expectation that he was going to have a random encounter. When that didn't pan out, maybe taking the girls was an opportunity that presented itself. My only problem is that he apparently doesn't have a car. . BUT if he was planning on moving maybe someone loaned him one to move his stuff. He could have used the puppy as a lure.

Idk. . just MOO and I can't seem to shake how nicely all of these facts line up. Thoughts?

 

[tlzzdavis]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

:goodpost:

Otto I couldn't agree more! I sat in your exact same spot with our 7 week old daughter. My husband had always been the "rock" but this time I had to be. I cried myself to sleep at night for a few hours. We were given a 30% chance of her making it surgery which had to be done within 12 hours due to CF pressure. To have a doctor look you in the eye and say "Folks, we have about 12 hours to get this surgery done and after that it is still only a 30% chance of her making it. What would you like to do?" My husband turned bright white and hit the ground. He is 6'2", 215lbs., shaved head, tattoos, peircings...definately what you would not perceive as an emotional person. I was left to make that decision alone, young and scared. At that minute I could only think of that 30% chance and prayed like hell! I looked the doctor dead in the eye and said "What in the hell are you waiting on? Let's get moving!"

Our princess is blind, non-verbal, severally mentally retarded, and will depend on me for the rest of her life...but I WOULD NEVER change my decision that saved her life in October 2004.

My husband always feels bad for "leaving me hanging" although I never once critized his reaction. It just goes to show that EVERY ONE RESPONDS DIFFERENTLY WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR OWN FLESH AND BLOOD NO MATTER WHAT THE SITUATION IS!

This quote hangs in our daughter's bedroom. And I think EVERY parent has these same feels at some point even the ones who seem so imperfect to others in society...

I gave birth to you but you came with no instructions.
All I knew was that I loved you long before I saw you.
I know I have made some mistakes and for that I am sorry.
But I was doing the best I could with what I knew, everything I did for you I did from Love.
You are my child, my life, my dreams for tomorrow.
I will always LOVE you and there is nothing that could ever destroy my love for you...​