IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[roseofsharon]

Just watched, and I agree, although its vague, yes, they see each other every day because they come over here to clean THE HOUSE.

But where are they coming from? I'm all confused now, I thought WC lived very near HC in Evansdale, and that MCM and Lyric lived with her? Guess they live far enough apart to be categorized as over HERE. I'll never get all this straight...:what:

It is my understanding that WC, MCM, and LC all live in Waterloo. They all live together in WC's home.

HC and DC and EC live in Evansdale.

:waitasec::waitasec: - I watched the video a couple of times now ... is that MCM in the sundress, who gives the cat a scratch and then sits on the park bench and appears to be texting. The hair and fingernails look just like hers.

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

So if we find out where Lyric did her chores is this going to get us the answer to bringing these poor babies home? I don't understand for the life of me why this matters...what am I missing?:banghead:

It was just a little detour, but I agree with you. It does happen from time to time on here.:seeya:

 

[Thespyma]

That sure was Misty! You are right, it is odd. She could have sat on the end of the bench furthest from the camera with less interuption, <modsnip>? <modsnip>.

It is not fair for people to judge her from the video unless they are looking for reasons. She was coming to sit on a bench at the lake where her daughter's bike was found. Maybe she wants to be closer to where she believes her daughter was.

Why that bench? Well, maybe after walking around she wanted to be close to where other family members were and it is pure speculation based on what I may have done- but there was a little lost kitten under the bench. She stopped to pet it. I would feel some empathy toward the kitten and in a pseudo surrogate way give the kitten love which I could not give my missing daughter...Just MY OWN OPINION.

She seems to be stressed and I think if she popped up beside the grandmother to hog the interview, THAT would seem much more suspicious. Not everyone mourns the same. Some moms with missing or deceased kids are medicated and spend all day in bed for weeks. Some go out and organize every day until their body gives out and they collapse. Some keep their sadness or fear hidden until they think no one is watching. Their is no correct way for all people to mourn.

 

[LittleMissContrary]

It was just a little detour, but I agree with you. It does happen from time to time on here.:seeya:

I understand diversions, but it comes across as a little Catty when people are still commenting on the wardrobe and "odd" behaviors of the family members. I for one would not like having my every move analyzed and commented upon by the general public.


Regardless of how you feel about MCM, she was obviously making an attempt to change her life and she is a victim in this mess, not a suspect.

 

[mahoolin]

So if we find out where Lyric did her chores is this going to get us the answer to bringing these poor babies home? I don't understand for the life of me why this matters...what am I missing?:banghead:

Well, to me it helps me to not only understand the family dynamics, but also the areas the girls frequented and just where an abductor might be found. Who's to say a neighbor or someone visiting a neighbor learned of the new summer routine. Creep that he is, he could befriend a little girl to fine-tune his plans, eavesdrop, or simply follow....:what:

 

[Thespyma]

Just in case this is about Human T, maybe they should keep an eye out for the girls in one of the states - MT,WY,SD,AR (as outlined on map in link) that have lax laws in that regard.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19169943
"The scale of human trafficking in the US is hard to gauge, but the National Human Trafficking Resource Center hotline, operated by Polaris Project since December 2007, has received more than 57,000 calls from every state in the union.

Incidences of sex and labour trafficking have been reported in all 50 states in the US, and the District of Columbia, in the last two years.

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, more than 100,000 minors are estimated to be in the commercial sex trade in the United States."

I agree and I think I'd add Tx to that. The route into Mexico leads straight down the state. My fear is that if they were taken to mexico then they could have been there before the lake was drain and focus shifted from drowning to abduction. Hopefully the Feds did what they do and were on that immediately. Maybe they have intel from elsewhere...

 

[Marilynilpa]

I understand diversions, but it comes across as a little Catty when people are still commenting on the wardrobe and "odd" behaviors of the family members. I for one would not like having my every move analyzed and commented upon by the general public.


Regardless of how you feel about MCM, she was obviously making an attempt to change her life and she is a victim in this mess, not a suspect.

This "detour" was not about MCM, IIRC. We were talking about Lyric, and that led to discussing Gma's comment about DM being upset with Lyric over chores, which then led to the whole discussion of where the chores were performed. If MCM was mentioned negatively during this "detour", I don't recall that.

 

[Marilynilpa]

So if we find out where Lyric did her chores is this going to get us the answer to bringing these poor babies home? I don't understand for the life of me why this matters...what am I missing?:banghead:

IMO it's as productive as discussing the location of the bikes for the millionth time, or any of the other things that get discussed over and over and over again. It's all an effort to bring sense somehow to the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric. Any information about Lyric, even regarding whether she did or didn't do chores, for free or for an allowance, at Grandma's or at Aunt Heather's, is interesting because it helps me understand more about her life leading up to July 13th.

 

[threecrazykids]

It was just a little detour, but I agree with you. It does happen from time to time on here.:seeya:

LOL...I know, it just cracks me up the things we go round and round about.:floorlaugh:

Sometimes I just feel like pulling my hair out over this case...I know every little detail is worth discussing. And I'm sure I've overlooked something that could bring us to an answer we didn't have before.

Where she did her chores just doesn't seem (to me) to be one of those things. LOL

 

[mahoolin]

Wonder if anyone abruptly moved out of town recently? Not necessarily in the middle of the night, but someone who maybe hadn't lived here long suddenly moving across country, closing a business abruptly. Unusual behavior according to those that knew them.

Does this mean they're the abductors? Probably not, but not all SO are registered yet, and not all criminals have been caught. JMHO

Or what if someone finally gathers the courage to say out loud uncomfortable feelings someone gives them? Something they've seen, but just recently made sense of... Someone whose character most wouldn't speak negative about except in private...

I'm sure all considered by LE....and if this was no stranger abduction, I hope these people gather the courage to do the right thing because that's how these girls will be found.

MHOO

Just another rambling theory of what could have happened to L&E....
:moo: :moo: :moo:

 

[roseofsharon]

I understand diversions, but it comes across as a little Catty when people are still commenting on the wardrobe and "odd" behaviors of the family members. I for one would not like having my every move analyzed and commented upon by the general public.


Regardless of how you feel about MCM, she was obviously making an attempt to change her life and she is a victim in this mess, not a suspect.

Why are you quoting me regarding your post?

Please correct this.

 

[dotr]

Who knows if doing chores had any bearing on the disappearance, maybe somebody overheard, or was bragged to - about what good little chore/ working girls they were and how attractive that might sound for an exploitative type person/perp?

 

[Thespyma]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

I can relate. My son was critically ill when he was three. The first few weeks I stayed at his bedside but when I had to go out, I had a brave face. My private side and public side were different and I had to remain strong for my son despite little or no sleep for weeks. He reached a stable point and though we knew he was not well yet, the next three years there was no outside show of fear or sadness. He needed my strength and he needed normalcy. Not everyone reacts the same. There is no set formula for how to react in adversity, illness, loss...we are all different.

 

[ksprincess]

I drove through Iowa last weekend on a road trip and saw a missing poster for the girls hanging in a gas station we stopped in. The poster had pictures and generic descriptions of both girls but then below that had a more detailed description of Lyric, that said something along the lines of her having tan skin and shoulder length hair and there might have been something else about her too. I was curious why this poster had a more detailed description of Lyric but not Elizabeth. Did her family have these made or did the police I wonder?

 

[mahoolin]

I drove through Iowa last weekend on a road trip and saw a missing poster for the girls hanging in a gas station we stopped in. The poster had pictures and generic descriptions of both girls but then below that had a more detailed description of Lyric, that said something along the lines of her having tan skin and shoulder length hair and there might have been something else about her too. I was curious why this poster had a more detailed description of Lyric but not Elizabeth. Did her family have these made or did the police I wonder?

Maybe her current appearance is a bit different from the available pic on the poster? :dunno:

 

[GrainneDhu]

He mentioned it and played it in a video. And to think of it. Yes, true about LE having there phones. They didn't find the message? Well for what it's worth Elizabeth sounded happy on that message.

My impression was that it was a voicemail he had received previously to Elizabeth's disappearance and had forgotten he'd saved.

I did that with one of my mother's voicemails and it was an occasion of great tears but great joy when I happened to be weeding out old voicemails and found it.

 

[superbee]

Reminds me of the show BREAKING BAD!
Dads a meth dealer and mom sends her daughter away because they are threatened .


Only thing is, I can understand taking Lyric and removing her from this picture
but why Elizabeth?

To keep her company?

 

[GrainneDhu]

It is not just you. This family does not seem stressed at all. Not one little bit.

It must be in the eye of the beholder.

I see pictures or video of the family and they all look like they are suffering to me. Heather and Drew Collins look like they are barely dragging themselves through the day. Misty plasters on a smile that doesn't reach her eyes; her eyes always look worried. Dan seems like a beaten down man.

The two grandmas each look like they've aged 10 years in the last month.

They all look like they are suffering from chronic high stress levels to me.

For that matter, Heather Collins is supposed to have surgery for her pacemaker problem and the doctors have deferred it because of her high stress level. That seems to me to be a professional assessment: this woman is too stressed out to survive anesthesia for necessary surgery.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Regarding the family falling apart or keeping it together, when my son was 5 years old he had brain surgery. I was terrified. I was so afraid that I wouldn't get the same child back or that he would be permanently, mentally disabled. I didn't let on how hard it was to appear sane and rational. He was in intensive care for a week after the surgery and I stayed at the hospital the entire time, grabbing an hour of sleep here and there, otherwiise sitting at his bedside. Everything that happened around me bounced off me because all of my strength was focused on being strong for my son and remaining sane. Think back to a time when the stress of life has been unbearable ... how often do people simply melt into uncontrollable emotions? How helpful is it to do that? I don't see anything unusual in how the family is handling the situation. It is commendable that they are being strong for each other even though inside, each and every one of them is probably absolutely terrified for the children.

I hope your son had a fast and uneventful recovery!

My ex-sil (who I still love like a sister) went through something similar with her 6 year old son. He was born with a congenital defect of the blood vessels in his brain and it's amazing he even survived the initial hemorrhage. He is still suffering deficits, both physically and mentally, two years on and they are facing more brain surgery.

Just like you, my ex-sil did not fall apart. She was bright, cheerful, determined, matter of fact because she also had a 9 year old and an 18 year old (who has Aspergers). She couldn't break down because even when her 6 year old was in a coma and not expected to live, she knew there was a chance that he was having moments of consciousness.

My ex-sil also knew that if she broke down, that would place an unfair and intolerable burden on her other children.

It was nearly 18 months before anyone in the family showed obvious signs of stress. I have taken in my niece (her oldest child) because my niece needs a lot more time and attention than her mother can provide right now.

Besides school (year round), her son needs 40+ hours of various types of therapy a week. And her now 11 year old needs a happy childhood too. It would not be fair to deprive the 11 year old of a happy childhood for something that was no one's fault.

All of this is to say, I agree with you. I think most people underestimate their own emotional strength when they've never gone through anything like that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess they did chores at both grandmother's homes everyday then. Or,now that I hear the talk of chores at DM's mother's house, makes me wonder if this is where she got in trouble by her father about not doing chores. So doing chores at where he lives appears to not have been voluntary, or she wouldn't have gotten into trouble for not doing them. Being this was only a few days before her disappearance, maybe that's why the grandmother's demeanor changed at that point. Just a thought, and why would she want to run away from her other Grandmother's house, because she got in trouble, guess we'll not know.

BBM

Am I interpreting the bolded correctly? That there are people who assign chores to children that are voluntary?

If so, my mind reels. My mama certainly did not raise me that way, my sisters have not raised their children that way and now that I'm finishing up the raising of my niece, her chores are not voluntary.

The very nature of chores makes them involuntary, in my eyes. Sure, I guess no one is forcing me to make sure the dishes are done but in order to remain habitable by humans, the dishes need to be kept clean.

I am completely sure that mean Auntie Grainne is cutting into her poor niece's time to loll around in bed watching music videos or shopping online but that's tough. My niece is stuck with me for an aunt and so long as she lives under my roof, she is going to do her share of chores. There is a largely unstated "or else" in there and my niece has already explored what happens when she leaves her dishes unwashed: the wi-fi mysteriously disappears and is not accessible by her laptop until the dishes are done.

Is there anyone who lets their children decide whether or not to do their chores? How does that work?