IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[CHERIE.T]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

Feasible?
YEP and btw, that's my theory.
That's all I can say now. :banghead:
imo

 

[elmomom]

Otto, I agree with you completely, except for the last part of the last sentence. I don't believe ANY realtor can access the lockbox, it has to be the agent who is handling it, or another agent with the same agency who is showing it as a favor. Real estate agents work on commission, so what if someone made an offer on the house while the substitute was showing it? Who gets credit for the sale?
IMO, though, I do agree that any house listed with a real estate agency would not be a good place to hide two girls or to molest or kill them, because some prospective buyer along with the agent could walk in at any time.
Someone mentioned several pages back about workmen or painters being able to access the code to get in... I believe the agent would have to meet them there and let them in. I would not trust my property to any agency who allowed their agents to go around handing out the keys or the code to the lockbox to just anybody. It would be limited access only.

Actually, what you are describing is known as an "exclusive" listing, which in most places is rare. More often, the listing agent is uninvolved in showing the house at all, and the selling agent who escorts the buyers around, may or may not even work for the same agency as the listing agent. There is a complicated commission split for these different scenarios, normally, the listing agent gets a slightly larger share, the selling agent gets a cut and so do both of the agencies involved.
(my mom was a realtor for years in an area that does use exclusives as a rule, and I learned the difference when I bought my own house in a different area with her assistance. She loves to talk "shop" )

 

[cindersoot]

Feasible?
YEP and btw, that's my theory.
That's all I can say now. :banghead:
imo

I know how you feel.

 

[ShyViolet]

When you list a house, don't you get everything checked out to be in good working order? On this particular house though, it has been listed for a year or so..but, workmen could still get access I suppose. Certainly a service van would not be regarded as suspicious necessarily by the neighbors, but upon questioning, may have remembered seeing something like that. In my theory, it could be one of several places to park a van that had or could transport bikes, tools, people; close to the location where the bikes were found. MOO

Jumping off your post, Sunlight--If you take a look at the aerial photo Jules posted, it seems as if a vehicle that pulled all the way up to the garage could be hidden from everyone other than the neighbor to the left (facing the lake). Lots of neighbors aren't home during the day, or might be gone on a Friday in the summer. I would guess that is not a well traveled road. I think it seems possible that a van parked in the driveway could go unseen by the neighbors--yet if it was noticed, could be considered unremarkable and forgotten. Just kind of thinking out loud.

 

[mck16]

My only problem with this is that in group attacks. . .like mean girls or a group of thuggish boys. . .they don't usually hide the bodies well. They either leave them right at the crime scene or dump them carelessly on the side of a road somewhere.

I think whoever took Elizabeth and Lyric made a point not to be seen and took care in that the girls would be well hidden. In a nutshell, I think they wanted alone time with them somewhere where there wouldn't be any witnesses or interruptions.

MOO

Many of the cases here on WS I have followed, the perp disposed of the body in a trash bin, dump site, or canal. They didn't hide the bodies too well and they were found quickly. Just don't know. I find it hard to believe it was only one person. Also, is there access by a vehicle to the trail area where the bikes were found? tia

 

[mck16]

Jumping off your post, Sunlight--If you take a look at the aerial photo Jules posted, it seems as if a vehicle that pulled all the way up to the garage could be hidden from everyone other than the neighbor to the left (facing the lake). Lots of neighbors aren't home during the day, or might be gone on a Friday in the summer. I would guess that is not a well traveled road. I think it seems possible that a van parked in the driveway could go unseen by the neighbors--yet if it was noticed, could be considered unremarkable and forgotten. Just kind of thinking out loud.

Did LE not search the vacant houses? Don't think I have seen it mentioned anywhere. tia

 

[HeavenLeigh]

That aerial photo is really good. Hmmm. It shows how incredibly close the highway is to where the bikes were found. It also shows a trail along the lake to those houses. Thanks.

That would be the highway heading South I think. People have discounted it because of construction, but the proximity is striking.

I hope you don't mind. I attempted to edit the photo you linked so that it was a little clearer.

 

[Sunlight]

Many of the cases here on WS I have followed, the perp disposed of the body in a trash bin, dump site, or canal. They didn't hide the bodies too well and they were found quickly. Just don't know. I find it hard to believe it was only one person. Also, is there access by a vehicle to the trail area where the bikes were found? tia

If you took them to a rural area, it wouldn't be hard; especially, if it is on private land. If bodies are dumped next to areas where there is foot traffic, they are found more readily by someone jogging by or something like that. I have 25 acres. I even got lost on my own property when I first bought it. I really never go to the back wooded area often unless I'm checking fences, so that's just my thought about it. MOO

 

[cindersoot]

I hope you don't mind. I attempted to edit the photo you linked so that it was a little clearer.

Thats nice, and also realize thats a small frame.

 

[Sunlight]

I hope you don't mind. I attempted to edit the photo you linked so that it was a little clearer.

The photo I was referring to is the other one...it shows as an attachment in Jules71 post. It is an aerial view. But this one looks much better than it did before.

 

[cindersoot]

The photo I was referring to is the other one...it shows as an attachment in Jules71 post. It is an aerial view. But this one looks much better than it did before.

That boat house has always bugged me for some reason.

 

[Reverie]

OMG, if you were standing at the window you could see where the bikes were found. Yes.

No offense, but wouldn't the garage block the view?

 

[ShyViolet]

Did LE not search the vacant houses? Don't think I have seen it mentioned anywhere. tia

I really don't know? Even if the house was searched, I think some posters are speculating more along the lines that the property could have been used, and not necessarily the house itself.

 

[cindersoot]

No offense, but wouldn't the garage block the view?

No not at all.

 

[Jules71]

No offense, but wouldn't the garage block the view?

I think so. But can't say for certain.

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[mck16]

I think so. But can't say for certain.

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Are any of the indicators in your attached photo where the bikes were found? tia

 

[Jules71]

Are any of the indicators in your attached photo where the bikes were found? tia

Approximately where the red circle is. In the Google map I believe you can see the jetty. In this you cannot.

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[mck16]

Approximately where the red circle is. In the Google map I believe you can see the jetty. In this you cannot.

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wow! is it as close to the highway as it appears in the photo?

 

[cindersoot]

Im just wondering how some know for certain where the bikes were found? I know in that area, but 50 ft to the left 100 ft to the right? I don't think we know.

 

[mck16]

Im just wondering how some know for certain where the bikes were found? I know in that area, but 50 ft to the left 100 ft to the right? I don't think we know.

in the photo that area does not look secluded at all to me. where are the woods it was reported that the dogs tracked their scent to? tia