IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[cindersoot]

Wondering if anyone could have been working on it recently. Maybe someone with a white work van.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Ahhh, I get what your saying.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Maybe I'm slow today, but what's the relevance of that? Unless you are implying the owners or the real estate agent is the perp, I'm not sure why that matters.

in Cinders defense, someone a few post back asked her about the price, AC and if it was still empty.

 

[TxLady2]

If it was an empty, abandoned home, sure, that can become a problem. This is not an empty abandoned home, it is simply for sale for $162,000. It is an MLS listing so there's a lockbox and any realtor with a client can show it.

Otto, I agree with you completely, except for the last part of the last sentence. I don't believe ANY realtor can access the lockbox, it has to be the agent who is handling it, or another agent with the same agency who is showing it as a favor. Real estate agents work on commission, so what if someone made an offer on the house while the substitute was showing it? Who gets credit for the sale?
IMO, though, I do agree that any house listed with a real estate agency would not be a good place to hide two girls or to molest or kill them, because some prospective buyer along with the agent could walk in at any time.
Someone mentioned several pages back about workmen or painters being able to access the code to get in... I believe the agent would have to meet them there and let them in. I would not trust my property to any agency who allowed their agents to go around handing out the keys or the code to the lockbox to just anybody. It would be limited access only.

 

[cindersoot]

Otto, I agree with you completely, except for the last part of the last sentence. I don't believe ANY realtor can access the lockbox, it has to be the agent who is handling it, or another agent with the same agency who is showing it as a favor. Real estate agents work on commission, so what if someone made an offer on the house while the substitute was showing it? Who gets credit for the sale?
IMO, though, I do agree that any house listed with a real estate agency would not be a good place to hide two girls or to molest or kill them, because some prospective buyer along with the agent could walk in at any time.
Someone mentioned several pages back about workmen or painters being able to access the code to get in... I believe the agent would have to meet them there and let them in. I would not trust my property to any agency who allowed their agents to go around handing out the keys or the code to the lockbox to just anybody. It would be limited access only.

his reminds me of the realestate agent in Desmoines who was killed and they never found her killer. I can't remember her name. It wasn't too long ago.

 

[cindersoot]

his reminds me of the realestate agent in Desmoines who was killed and they never found her killer. I can't remember her name. It wasn't too long ago.

Ashley Oakland. That was it.

 

[MotherOcean]

Otto, I agree with you completely, except for the last part of the last sentence. I don't believe ANY realtor can access the lockbox, it has to be the agent who is handling it, or another agent with the same agency who is showing it as a favor. Real estate agents work on commission, so what if someone made an offer on the house while the substitute was showing it? Who gets credit for the sale?
IMO, though, I do agree that any house listed with a real estate agency would not be a good place to hide two girls or to molest or kill them, because some prospective buyer along with the agent could walk in at any time.
Someone mentioned several pages back about workmen or painters being able to access the code to get in... I believe the agent would have to meet them there and let them in. I would not trust my property to any agency who allowed their agents to go around handing out the keys or the code to the lockbox to just anybody. It would be limited access only.

BBM --

They split the commission. It happens frequently. I don't know if it differs from state to state but here any agent can show any agency's listing. The listing agent and the one who negotiated the sell will split the commission that comes from the agency's profit.

 

[TxLady2]

My only problem with this is that in group attacks. . .like mean girls or a group of thuggish boys. . .they don't usually hide the bodies well. They either leave them right at the crime scene or dump them carelessly on the side of a road somewhere.

I think whoever took Elizabeth and Lyric made a point not to be seen and took care in that the girls would be well hidden. In a nutshell, I think they wanted alone time with them somewhere where there wouldn't be any witnesses or interruptions.

MOO

BINGO!!! This was not a group of mean teenagers, this was someone who took steps to grab them fast and be long gone before anybody saw them.

 

[Sunlight]

When you list a house, don't you get everything checked out to be in good working order? On this particular house though, it has been listed for a year or so..but, workmen could still get access I suppose. Certainly a service van would not be regarded as suspicious necessarily by the neighbors, but upon questioning, may have remembered seeing something like that. In my theory, it could be one of several places to park a van that had or could transport bikes, tools, people; close to the location where the bikes were found. MOO

 

[Confusion]

It's really hard to say for sure who might have had access to the house. I was looking for a place not too long ago and an agent showed me a place that was a good possibility. When I asked about seeing it a second time because my son wanted to check it out too, either I appear very trustworthy, the agent was very lazy or both. He gave me the code for the lock box so I could bring him over to see it whenever I wanted to (instead of working with the agent's schedule.)

It was rather nice to think he trusted me that much, but I was a bit paranoid about who else he may have trusted that much, and if those people could be trusted not to make duplicate keys. Even though I really didn't think it was likely to have happened, it was enough to make me lose interest in the place.

 

[hambirg]

See post #940

I'm still confused because the only people who can drop the price would be the owners or the agent.

I'm still curious if there was any work done on the house. I can see it possibly being a spot that the girls were noticed from. But I'm still favoring that the girls never made it to the lake. I think it's much more likely that the girls were taken somewhere up by Brovan.

Here's a thought. . .what if the plan was to take the girls, dump the bikes at the lake, and then at some later date dump the girls in the lake? It would look like they drown there. . .but the perp didn't realize that LE would drain the lake and rule that out. :what:

 

[MNDad]

When you list a house, don't you get everything checked out to be in good working order? On this particular house though, it has been listed for a year or so..but, workmen could still get access I suppose. Certainly a service van would not be regarded as suspicious necessarily by the neighbors, but upon questioning, may have remembered seeing something like that. In my theory, it could be one of several places to park a van that had or could transport bikes, tools, people; close to the location where the bikes were found. MOO

Most of the time you get things in good working order, but an unoccupied house can sometimes deteriorate simply because it is not being used. Toilets need to be flushed and the A/C needs to be kept in working order or windows and doors could expand. If the A/C went out during this heatwave, you would definately want to get it fixed.

 

[palaminodee]

BBM --

They split the commission. It happens frequently. I don't know if it differs from state to state but here any agent can show any agency's listing. The listing agent and the one who negotiated the sell will split the commission that comes from the agency's profit.

It depends on the state, if the company/agent are part of MLS Multiple Listing
that is correct. I just moved to an area where some realtors were not MLS and we could only see a home thru them...it was a pain.
ReMax, if still the listing agent is MLS, however an owner can put any stipulation on how and when it is allowed to be shown, but I would think with a vacant property, the owner would want as many showings as possible.

 

[MNDad]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

 

[cindersoot]

I'm still confused because the only people who can drop the price would be the owners or the agent.

I'm still curious if there was any work done on the house. I can see it possibly being a spot that the girls were noticed from. But I'm still favoring that the girls never made it to the lake. I think it's much more likely that the girls were taken somewhere up by Brovan.

Here's a thought. . .what if the plan was to take the girls, dump the bikes at the lake, and then at some later date dump the girls in the lake? It would look like they drown there. . .but the perp didn't realize that LE would drain the lake and rule that out. :what:

I don't agree because why come back to dump the girls in the lake when there are large bodies of water and a river where noone would see them.

 

[hambirg]

It's really hard to say for sure who might have had access to the house. I was looking for a place not too long ago and an agent showed me a place that was a good possibility. When I asked about seeing it a second time because my son wanted to check it out too, either I appear very trustworthy, the agent was very lazy or both. He gave me the code for the lock box so I could bring him over to see it whenever I wanted to (instead of working with the agent's schedule.)

It was rather nice to think he trusted me that much, but I was a bit paranoid about who else he may have trusted that much, and if those people could be trusted not to make duplicate keys. Even though I really didn't think it was likely to have happened, it was enough to make me lose interest in the place.

This is more common than you think. When we had our company agents would often do this (so we could do work), because they didn't want to take the time to go open the door for us.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

I know it is just hypothetical, but it definitely brings one particular witness to mind...

 

[hambirg]

I don't agree because why come back to dump the girls in the lake when there are large bodies of water and a river where noone would see them.

My thinking is that the perp thought that it would be assumed the girls drown. . .end of case and investigation.

 

[Sunlight]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

Well, it would be particularly troubling if a person mentioned the time and then a couple of days later other pesky things came to light via LE that conflicted with it. MOO

 

[cindersoot]

My thinking is that the perp thought that it would be assumed the girls drown. . .end of case and investigation.

Oh, yea...so true.:rocker:

 

[hambirg]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a perp has inserted themselves into the story.

I remember several years ago there was a serial arsonist in the area. He was interviewed on tv because he was one of the first on the scene of one of the early fires. It's how they caught him. . .he kept showing up to the scene of several of the fires. :doh: