IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[MNDad]

Thought I'd post the link to Crankycrankerson's Photobucket for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. CC has done a wonderful service to the girls and to all of us on their team. You can even click on the videos and watch the actual videos, not just screen shots.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

I don't see this one on the PhotoBucket site, but I found it on the FBI site.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/lyric-cook/cook-lyric-2.jpg/image_large

 

[Bootsctr]

HLN's Jane Velez Mitchell is going to have something on the girls, said they would be talking with the aunt,, is there a connection between another girl missing from the same area, or to Meth, the drug.

Please update us.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Running the kids story now.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

How common is the knowledge of scent trails laid by drag? Fox hunters know about it, tracking dog trainers should know about it but anyone in the general public who is not seriously into either activity? My gut feeling is that it's not well known.

Strictly in my own experience, people who think about attempting to foil a scent dog think in terms of covering up scent in much the way people often use air fresheners in their homes. I haven't run across a single non-dog person who thinks of adding more of the victim's scent.

If the perp did that, though, boy would it narrow the suspect pool nicely. It would mean that not only did they have knowledge of that one 400 foot stretch of trail that was relatively well concealed but they were seriously into one of two activities, neither of which has many people who are into them.

I think it's highly unlikely the perp used a drag.

Well, actually, there is a lot of information on the Internet of late about scent tracking and such, even at the FBIs own site. Also, hunters know a fair amount, with and without dogs, which could lead someone to research such further if they have hunting experience.
IF it had, indeed, rained most of the night and on to about 11am, then a scent trail on the pavement of Evansdale Nature Trail could have at least been washed away enough to lead the dogs to a stronger scent (making anything ‘found’ near the bikes ‘inconclusive’).
As for what most of the common public knows about scent trails, most is still myth, such as running through a stream to throw off tracking dogs. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. Still, again, there is now information to be had that is accurate. As to covering up a scent the dogs are specifically directed to follow, not a chance! They used ‘foot pad’ scent gathered from the girls’ actual shoes, AND ruled out all family members, as well. The dogs knew exactly what to follow, even in a MESS of different scents.
Could a perp leave a ‘false trail,’ say, with that purse? Well, if that purse contained a fair amount of sweat, maybe, but that wouldn’t explain a trail by Lyric. If they had an article of clothing from (preferably both) girls, it’s possible, but I feel quite a stretch to consider. IF the girls had been there within the past, say, day or two, dogs don’t have a calendar/watch, so a trail would still be a positive. Just… which day?
Even bloodhounds, often thought of to track the ground, also use the air, foliage, etc. There are a LOT of very specific elements involved in tracking a scent in a given area. Those were FBI dogs, too, so highly skilled dogs AND handlers. (Hate to say it, but not ALL SAR dogs and handlers are equal in skills).
In the end, however, Joe Public simply does not have the facts that LE has concerning even that aspect of the investigation. We most likely will never know, unless we end up in a courtroom over it all.
I will agree... highly unlikely the perp used a drag...

 

[Bootsctr]

How does that fit with Sandy Breault saying that the hypothetical paddle boat person they wanted to talk to was not a suspect?

Just a thought, but hypothetically perhaps LE asked TG if he saw anyone else at the lake that day and said he saw someone in a paddleboat on the lake at that time too. FBI specifically calls him not a suspect in order to make that person think they are not under suspicion and just wanted to talk to him. It has never been said if a paddleboater came forward which leaves us with:
A. There was a paddleboater who was involved with the abduction and is long gone, or knows he is a suspect and no way is he going to come forward.
B. The paddleboater never existed.

 

[palaminodee]

girls on HLN right now

 

[otto]

You don't have to actually stop because you are correct. I have read that young females are developing sooner because of the hormone enhancements in dairy to produce more milk.

Do a search including the word "myth".

 

[Confusion]

They are here too, but no one wears them. It is one of those non-enforced laws. My kids don't wear helmets probably because I don't. They have them but always leave them in the garage. I don't push the issue and alot of parents don't, even though we should.

Is that a state law or just a local one? Not that I ever ride a bike anyway, but it's still good to know. TIA

 

[nikb]

I watched a video in which the reporter said it was a "bag type" purse.

I remember hearing/seeing that too. I can't find it again but I'm looking. I'm not entirely sure what a "bag type purse" is? In my mind I picture grocery bag... two handles, no strap, but small as described in another report. But that could be completely different from what they meant.

 

[callyn]

TB on JVM right now

 

[foxbluff]

snipped by me --

I can't believe we've been posting and hashing for over a month and I have never read anyone ask about helmets!! I didn't even think about helmets!! And I never let my kids ride without helmets. This is why it's so great when new people come alongside us and participate in this discussion.

My 13 year old son is about 5'3" and weighs 140 pounds. He is HUGE, not overweight huge because he is beginning to look like a young man and he isn't really flabby. But, he is a big kid for his age and it's hard for me to imagine that Lyric was 145 pounds, but I guess it's possible. I think it's likely someone would think she is older than ten.



Now I'll go back and find Cindersoot's thread. I'm catching up from over most of today.

Above quote BBM. What a wonderful welcome! Thank you!

I totally understand what you saying about your son's build and that helps me bring things into perspective regarding LC's size. The only full-sized photo I've seen of LC (beautiful young girl btw) is the one w/the hula hoop where she, IMO, looks like a ten yr. old. However, I've seen two head shots of her which I take to be more recent photos as she looks older. But like you describe your son, she appears like a large child but not fat.

I really would like to see a recent full size photo of her if anybody can send me in the right direction.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Jvm asking the girls Aunt Tammy lots of questions.
True that Misty adn Dan were filing for divorce.
Aunt think pedophile.
thats it

 

[Jax49]

Tammy on JVM: everyone in the family should still be suspect until we get our girls back (when asked if DM is still being treated as a suspect by LE)

she thinks only a 2% chance drug history has anything to do with it

FBI not telling us about any theory they may have

watches no media -- sickens her

 

[MotherOcean]

Just a thought, but hypothetically perhaps LE asked TG if he saw anyone else at the lake that day and said he saw someone in a paddleboat on the lake at that time too. FBI specifically calls him not a suspect in order to make that person think they are not under suspicion and just wanted to talk to him. It has never been said if a paddleboater came forward which leaves us with:
A. There was a paddleboater who was involved with the abduction and is long gone, or knows he is a suspect and no way is he going to come forward.
B. The paddleboater never existed.

Or he could have come forward and been cleared (or not). LE hasn't told us whether or not he did. Abben did say at the last press conference that several people had responded when they told the public they were looking for him. He also said that some people (I believe he used a plural term) were being questioned even at that time (during the press conference). Are they still looking for the paddleboater? I don't think so but maybe a local would know otherwise.

 

[cindersoot]

How does that fit with Sandy Breault saying that the hypothetical paddle boat person they wanted to talk to was not a suspect?

Because if they said they were a suspect they wouldn't come forward.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Do a search including the word "myth".

Although there were times I remember, when kids were that age, that I could have sworn I WAS dealing with Pandora LOL

 

[nikb]

Thought I'd post the link to Crankycrankerson's Photobucket for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. CC has done a wonderful service to the girls and to all of us on their team. You can even click on the videos and watch the actual videos, not just screen shots.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

Wow this is great, thank you!

 

[MotherOcean]

Above quote BBM. What a wonderful welcome! Thank you!

I totally understand what you saying about your son's build and that helps me bring things into perspective regarding LC's size. The only full-sized photo I've seen of LC (beautiful young girl btw) is the one w/the hula hoop where she, IMO, looks like a ten yr. old. However, I've seen two head shots of her which I take to be more recent photos as she looks older. But like you describe your son, she appears like a large child but not fat.

I really would like to see a recent full size photo of her if anybody can send me in the right direction.

MNDad posted one right above your post. I had never seen that picture of Lyric. She does look much older than ten, IMO.

 

[cindersoot]

I agree with the aunt, get off the drug stuff and concentrate on a perp.

 

[Jax49]

'Expert' on JVM said the abduction attempt yesterday (2 1/2 hours away) was dismissed by the FBI so quickly as 'not related' because the FBI has a theory about what happened to our girls and the new attempt doesn't fit that theory.

Ex-LE (not involved with case) said the FBI believes the girls are alive. Don't know if this is current info but he made it sound like it.

And, Tammy said DM & MC had not been in a relationship for over a year and they were planning on divorcing when the girls disappeared.