IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[azuredewdrop]

I'm sure this has been discussed along with everything else, but I need someone to remind me. HC at PD reporting girls missing at 2:47. How in the world did police wind up at Meyers Lake area at 3:00?? I see in the above comment police went to the Collins home (which makes dang good sense) but yet at the lake at 3:00? Now I'm sure there was more than one officer involved but how did they wind up at Meyer's Lake in just 13 minutes? Isn't Meyers Lake a little over a mile from the Collins' home? Remember, at this point (3:00) we didn't know the bikes were at Meyers Lake. IIRC it was even stated in MSM police were "swarming" Meyers Lake area at 3:00. What or who led us to the lake in the first place?? Why didn't LE (as a group) originate the search on Brovan and kinda spread outwards? It just seems odd to me that this search went so quickly to Meyers Lake and low and behold that's where the bikes were found.
As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm sure this has been discussed, but someone remind me why "we" decided the search went to the lake so quickly.
TIA

IIRC they went to the lake because TB had said for the family to check the lake and when they got their someone (I think MCM) asked people at the lake about the girls and a man told her that he'd seen them. I imagine if they had cellphones on them they called LE and relayed that to them.

Also...I have listened to the scanner archives (if you have a paid subscription you can do that) and I have listened to the first couple of hours from when the police began looking. I don't think we can discuss it here but I would recommend to anyone looking for a clue to these things, to go have a listen.

 

[MNDad]

LOL! I was wondering how it is even possible in Evansdale to make that much money! Given the (very limited) examples I've seen of the area's other citizens, and from listening to the scanner thread, Waterloo seems more like Watts than Beverly Hills! :what:

2102 Taxes
100% Land Value 52,000
100% Dwelling Value 344,460

The particular individual that appears to own this property is the owner of an automobile related business on Lafyette.

 

[Jules71]

I'm really wondering now about that mystery witness TB spoke with at the lake. When TB talked about it, she said LE has his name. When did LE obtain his name..from her? When did she relate this story? Was it the next day, or days later? The timing is interesting. Did he tell her he saw them at 2:30 or did he tell her he saw them (at 2:30). What time did he tell her that? Does this have something to do with what the white van guy at Casey's might have seen while at Casey's? I'm repeating myself...and I know this has probably been discussed, but it is bothering me. The timing is bothering me. I can't put my finger on it exactly.

Tammy said she, grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45. She said the man told her he saw the girls at 2:30. She also said LE swarmed the lake at 3. Abben stated in a press conference the bikes were FOUND at 3:58 which closely matches the scanner activity for that day.

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[Considering]

IIRC, TB stated to look at Meyers lake right off the bat. Her daughter and Lyric had ridden to the lake before.

I think two different situations are being combined.

Situation #1: Tammy's daughter and Lyric walked to a park in Waterloo and and were late arriving back several days before Elizabeth and Lyric disappeared.

Situation #2: Tammy and Grandma Wylma were on being interviewed on TV recently (a brief interview by JVM, I believe) and Tammy said that Elizabeth had biked to Meyers Lake with neighbors recently.

 

[Jax49]

Tammy said she, grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45. She said the man told her he saw the girls at 2:30. She also said LE swarmed the lake at 3. Abben stated in a press conference the bikes were FOUND at 3:58 which closely matches the scanner activity for that day.

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Thanks. I thought I remembered Tammy saying the man said he saw the girls on their bikes. If so, this man cannot be the 'runner' the FBI referred to because their witness only saw the bikes, not the girls.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

Breault said they are looking for anyone who might have been at the park, on the trails or on the water. Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey disappeared July 13.
“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.

 

[Sunlight]

Tammy said she, grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45. She said the man told her he saw the girls at 2:30. She also said LE swarmed the lake at 3. Abben stated in a press conference the bikes were FOUND at 3:58 which closely matches the scanner activity for that day.

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Two minutes later Heather reports them missing at the counter at LE @ 2:47? ? What prompted Heather to go to LE to report them missing? I'm wondering if the 2:45 thing and the 2:47 thing is kinda like the 8 minute math problem. Again, something is awry...probably watches and phones. I dunno.

 

[Sunlight]

Thanks. I thought I remembered Tammy saying the man said he saw the girls on their bikes. If so, this man cannot be the 'runner' the FBI referred to because their witness only saw the bikes, not the girls.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

Breault said they are looking for anyone who might have been at the park, on the trails or on the water. Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey disappeared July 13.
“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.

A small detail would be whether he was jogging or riding a bike on that particular day. That would be really important.

 

[Confusion]

Two minutes later Heather reports them missing at the counter at LE @ 2:47? ? What prompted Heather to go to LE to report them missing? I'm wondering if the 2:45 thing and the 2:47 thing is kinda like the 8 minute math problem. Again, something is awry...probably watches and phones. I dunno.

Heather wasn't at the lake with them, and I see absolutely nothing suspicious about a mother going to the police to report that her 8 year old was missing.

 

[Sunlight]

Heather wasn't at the lake with them, and I see absolutely nothing suspicious about a mother going to the police to report that her 8 year old was missing.

I'm not at all suspicious of Heather and/or the family. I'm trying to nail down the time the person who reportedly told TB he had seen the girls at 2:30 actually told TB that information....or when he could actually have seen them. Or, who that person is for that matter.

 

[Jax49]

Here's the transcript from JVM.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/17/ijvm.01.html
snipped
JVM: The weapon of choice for abductors is a van. Since Elizabeth and Lyric disappeared, there have been a string of attempted abductions throughout Iowa. Cops are telling us tonight this incident in Waukee, this attempted abduction, does not appear to be linked to the missing cousins` disappearance.

How do they know that? That`s what I`d like to know.

Jon Lieberman, HLN contributor, investigative journalist, you`ve been looking into this. How can they say so quickly nothing to see here?

LIEBERMAN: Quite simply the FBI believes they have a theory of what happened to these girls. They believe these two girls are still alive. And based on the information -- which they haven`t released publicly; they`re keeping it close to their vest -- they believe they know how this went down. And this other attempted abduction does not fit into their theory of what happened to these two cousins.
**
BROUSSEAU: Well, of course they`re going to say that they`re alive, number one, because we don`t have two dead bodies. And of course, we all want to believe that the two children are still alive. That`s our hopes. We want our children returned to us alive, yes.

 

[Confusion]

I'm not at all suspicious of Heather and/or the family. I'm trying to nail down the time the person who reportedly told TB he had seen the girls at 2:30 actually told TB that information....or when he could actually have seen them. Or, who that person is for that matter.

Sorry. When you said something was awry with it, I misunderstood what you meant. The guy may have just said he saw 2 girls about 15 minutes earlier - which could actually mean anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour depending on how he was perceiving time passing at the time. I would find it hard to believe that he just happened to look at the time and remember that the girls rode by at that minute. I'm not real convinced that he actually saw them anyway. He said he saw 2 little girls on bikes, and I don't really see most people who don't know Lyric describing her as a little girl (young, yes, but she was close to the size of many adult females.)

 

[RNER]

Tammy said she, grandma, and E's brother were at the lake at 2:45. She said the man told her he saw the girls at 2:30. She also said LE swarmed the lake at 3. Abben stated in a press conference the bikes were FOUND at 3:58 which closely matches the scanner activity for that day.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using

Two minutes later Heather reports them missing at the counter at LE @ 2:47? ? What prompted Heather to go to LE to report them missing? I'm wondering if the 2:45 thing and the 2:47 thing is kinda like the 8 minute math problem. Again, something is awry...probably watches and phones. I dunno.

...at the lake at 2:45, LE "swarmed the lake" @ 3, and the bikes weren't found until 3:58??? HMMM...what's wrong with this story????????????????

I guess if someone told me they had seen my daughter, niece, or grandchild 15 minutes before I got there, I would have been RUNNING EVERYWHERE AROUND THE LAKE to try and find her. Oh wait, maybe they did that, just "overlooked" the bikes!

IMO...the family has consistently changed their stories and provided conflicting details, while everything and everyone else has been scrutinized and untruthful, including clocks, cameras, cell-phones, reputable people of the community, good citizens, etc. Perhaps more focus and scrutiny should be targeted towards those most obviously impacted by the truth.

I think the EARLY family information is more reliable, yet more conflicting because information wasn't based on collaboration with other family members, evidence, witnesses, etc.

 

[hambirg]

Sorry. When you said something was awry with it, I misunderstood what you meant. The guy may have just said he saw 2 girls about 15 minutes earlier - which could actually mean anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour depending on how he was perceiving time passing at the time. I would find it hard to believe that he just happened to look at the time and remember that the girls rode by at that minute. I'm not real convinced that he actually saw them anyway. He said he saw 2 little girls on bikes, and I don't really see most people who don't know Lyric describing her as a little girl (young, yes, but she was close to the size of many adult females.)

Here is what I'd like to know. Did he say he actually saw the girls? TB says he told her he saw the girls, but FBI says he didn't actually see the girls, only the bikes.

My thinking is that maybe TB has it wrong. . .or kind of. I can see if someone was out jogging on the trail and a concerned person approaches them and asks if they saw two girls on bikes. . .that if they actually just saw the bikes, they might say. . .oh yeah. . .they are down that way. . .just thinking that's where the girls are and not that they were abducted and that the bikes are there but the girls aren't, kwim?

Idk. . .but it's a thought and I can see that happening. And then when the jogger is later questioned by LE it is cleared up that he only actually saw the bikes and just assumed the girls were there too.

 

[superbee]

I read that comment too. Cannot remember the young girl's name, but this case popped into my head:


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/sex_slave/13.html

There was a case within the last 40 years in Western Canada where a young girl was grabbed, kept in a bunker under a man's garage for quite awhile, and lived. I think she was grabbed as she walked down the alley behind his place. The demon had his hellhole all ready when he grabbed his victim. She was quite young, around 12, and he kept her alive. Of course he was a pervert. She was rescued I believe when either someone nearby heard her calling for help, or the man's wife in their home became suspicious. It is a long time ago, and it was around Vancouver, N. Vancouver, on the west coast of Canada. The girl was rescued, alive, and was on the news a few years ago speaking abit of what happened. She is married and has children. God Bless her. I believe she had Angels with her, as I pray Luric and Lizzie have with them. Praying the girls are alive and will be rescued soon.

 

[Sunlight]

Here is what I'd like to know. Did he say he actually saw the girls? TB says he told her he saw the girls, but FBI says he didn't actually see the girls, only the bikes.

My thinking is that maybe TB has it wrong. . .or kind of. I can see if someone was out jogging on the trail and a concerned person approaches them and asks if they saw two girls on bikes. . .that if they actually just saw the bikes, they might say. . .oh yeah. . .they are down that way. . .just thinking that's where the girls are and not that they were abducted and that the bikes are there but the girls aren't, kwim?

Idk. . .but it's a thought and I can see that happening. And then when the jogger is later questioned by LE it is cleared up that he only actually saw the bikes and just assumed the girls were there too.

It couldn't be the same person who saw the bikes as the person who said they saw the girls on the bikes could it? Nah.... Besides LE has the name(s), but no name or description has ever been released or acknowledged.

 

[MNDad]

Here is what I'd like to know. Did he say he actually saw the girls? TB says he told her he saw the girls, but FBI says he didn't actually see the girls, only the bikes.

My thinking is that maybe TB has it wrong. . .or kind of. I can see if someone was out jogging on the trail and a concerned person approaches them and asks if they saw two girls on bikes. . .that if they actually just saw the bikes, they might say. . .oh yeah. . .they are down that way. . .just thinking that's where the girls are and not that they were abducted and that the bikes are there but the girls aren't, kwim?

Idk. . .but it's a thought and I can see that happening. And then when the jogger is later questioned by LE it is cleared up that he only actually saw the bikes and just assumed the girls were there too.

I don't know if any of us actually know if there was a runner. Could TB have spoken to TG. Could TG be the runner and the biker? Could TB assume that TG was a runner because he didn't have his bike with him when she encountered him, but he was dressed in training gear, so she assumed he was a jogger? Was TG at the scene on Friday or was he already gone and did he not come forward until Monday? Could FBI have just been generalizing on the type of athletic activity and call a biker a runner? Could the pinpointed time be TG's time that FBI is referring to?

All of these questions are not sleuthing TG, but rather designed to ask if there are two people that saw the bikes/girls or just one person being referred to differently.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Another weekend past, it makes you wonder if there will ever be any news.

 

[cindersoot]

2102 Taxes
100% Land Value 52,000
100% Dwelling Value 344,460

Im so confused that large house, I never seen that? Not on the lake.

 

[RNER]

Here's the transcript from JVM.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/17/ijvm.01.html
snipped
JVM: The weapon of choice for abductors is a van. Since Elizabeth and Lyric disappeared, there have been a string of attempted abductions throughout Iowa. Cops are telling us tonight this incident in Waukee, this attempted abduction, does not appear to be linked to the missing cousins` disappearance.

How do they know that? That`s what I`d like to know.

Jon Lieberman, HLN contributor, investigative journalist, you`ve been looking into this. How can they say so quickly nothing to see here?

LIEBERMAN: Quite simply the FBI believes they have a theory of what happened to these girls. They believe these two girls are still alive. And based on the information -- which they haven`t released publicly; they`re keeping it close to their vest -- they believe they know how this went down. And this other attempted abduction does not fit into their theory of what happened to these two cousins.
**
BROUSSEAU: Well, of course they`re going to say that they`re alive, number one, because we don`t have two dead bodies. And of course, we all want to believe that the two children are still alive. That`s our hopes. We want our children returned to us alive, yes.

IMOO...this points to it not being a "random" abduction. The girls or their family knew the person(s) responsible or it was a planned disappearance.

 

[hambirg]

It couldn't be the same person who saw the bikes as the person who said they saw the girls on the bikes could it? Nah.... Besides LE has the name(s), but no name or description has ever been released or acknowledged.

I have thought of that too, but I don't think it's the same person (that would be pretty creepy IMHO.)