IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[mck16]

We know that when the police held the scene where the bikes were there are cars back there.

http://en.paperblog.com/fbi-sniffer-dogs-detect-scent-of-missing-cousins-268503/

While listening to the scanner a car was reported driving on that road by a homeowner It was the FBI doing a re enactment (This of course is rumor )

I can see that the maintenance people would need access to the area for their vehicles. But, maybe not a regularily traveled road for people to access the trail. jmo

 

[Gracelin]

No, Not a regularly traveled road.. I would think only a local would know that it's there..

 

[palaminodee]

Where was this vehicle parked? I asked earlier if a car could drive close to the trail. Could it? tia

Based on Ollipop's photos, I think they easily could have parked in the grassy area adjacent to the wooded area or the dirt path that leads through the woods to the bike path (where the LE vehicles were parked in one of Ollie's photos).

Both are East of the trail with a quick getaway to any of the neighborhood streets.

They could have said, we'll go see Gma or Mom and we'll come back or have so and so pick up your bikes.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I am curious to whether or not it is theorethically remotely feasible that someone who appears to be a witness may be the ultimate witness of the crime by his/her own hands? Could someone come forward and say that they saw something at a particular time, but in fact that time was fabricated after they had some time to think about it? In theory, could a time seem to be legitimate because they conveniently tied it to another time that could be validated? How do we know if the time that they supposedly witnessed something was before or after this other validated time or if this witnessed event even happend? What if this person started to panic over the weekend and was concerned that they could be placed in the area so they decide to place themselves in the area and by appearing very forthright they had the luxury of altering the exact time they were there slightly. Not too much but just enough to make it appear that the crime may have taken place at a different time than it actually did. Hypothetically, could someone whom on the surface has no apparent reason to lie or even come forward in the first place, take a couple days and come up with a plan that serves two purposes; 1) Head off suspicions by admitting a connection (as a witness) and 2) Satisfy a curiousity of what's going on and finding out what LE might know or suspect? These are all just theoretical questions that could apply to this case or any other case.

I believe so. In fact, I tend to believe that if the actual abductions took place much closer to home, it's possible they saw or heard WC step out and call to the girls sometime around -- what was it? Around 12:15PM? They could have been in a better position to have seen the girls more clearly than WC, then lured them somehow. Then, as I tend to believe, PLANT the bikes and purse on that bike trail, far more at their leisure. If a vehicle was used (such as a now-infamous white work van), such could also allow said vehicle to be parked close to that trail w/o notice, wait until the 'coast was clear,' and ditch the bikes and purse.
Just my... thoughts here, tossing things around on that venue...

 

[Sunlight]

For those who don't believe someone who is a good citizen can do bad stuff:

"Rader was a member of Christ Lutheran Church and had been elected president[1][10] of the Congregation Council. He was also a Cub Scout leader."

That would be Dennis Rader.

Just sayin' one has to keep an open mind. MOO

 

[Jules71]

I think this may be the route that the girls took from the CCTV to the lake. It doesn't include the route from the beginning of Arbutus (where S. Evans turns into Arbutus) to where the bikes were found because Google maps just wasn't cooperating with what I wanted to do. I think the girls could have headed N from the corner at Brovan onto River Forest Rd., then R onto Lafayette Rd. (or possibly cut through parkings lots there) and S onto S. Evans Rd. This would take them to right by First Security State Bank. I think they may have then gone S until they got to Morrell Ave. where they then possibly took a L to Evansdale Nature Trail. I think they could have possibly continued down the trail until they got to Gilbert where they then turned back to the W to Lake Avenue. This would put them at the same corner as the skateboard park and then on down to Mr. C's road. They could have then traveled down Lake Ave. to S. Evans/Arbutus.

I am basing this on several things; the CCTV, a rumor that I've read that they were seen by an employee at Fareway Grocery (which makes sense to me... wasn't LE requesting surveillance from First Security State Bank?) whom they asked where the bike trail was at (and assuming they then went to the bike trail from the grocery), Mr. C's statement that he saw them on his road, and the spot that is nearest to where their bikes found that I could get Google to map for me.

http://goo.gl/maps/IhnpT

This map indicates a length of 1.9 miles and 10 minutes for the biking time.

As I said, it is partly based on rumor (from one of the FB pages that have been set up for people to keep up with the case & help find the girls), so take it for what it's worth. Also, based on me thinking that Mr. C was correct about seeing them on his road, though I have to admit I'm beginning to have doubts about that myself.

This is good. I can see it. They could have turned too soon on Evans before getting to the bike trail. It would have put them in front of Fareway so they decided to ask for directions. The thing is this cannot be true if TG's sighting is right. In fact we have to take his sighting out to make anything work - which is what I am going to do. So I think this route is very likely. They should be able to get video from Fareway which they may have. Could someone inside the store have overheard them asking for directions? So that person headed down near Maiden Lane and waited for them?

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[CHERIE.T]

For those who don't believe someone who is a good citizen can do bad stuff:

"Rader was a member of Christ Lutheran Church and had been elected president[1][10] of the Congregation Council. He was also a Cub Scout leader."

That would be Dennis Rader.

Just sayin' one has to keep an open mind. MOO

:yesss:

Anyone remember John List?
A one time kind, church going man, husband and father, murdered his entire family.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/list/1.html

Keep an open mind!

 

[CHERIE.T]

This is good. I can see it. They could have turned too soon on Evans before getting to the bike trail. It would have put them in front of Fareway so they decided to ask for directions. The thing is this cannot be true if TG's sighting is right. In fact we have to take his sighting out to make anything work - which is what I am going to do. So I think this route is very likely. They should be able to get video from Fareway which they may have. Could someone inside the store have overheard them asking for directions? So that person headed down near Maiden Lane and waited for them?

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So does everyone pretty much agree that this wasn't too far for the girls
to ride?
This seems very doable.
imo

 

[Sere-nity]

Why would they get off the trail there on gilbert?

 

[Jules71]

So does everyone pretty much agree that this wasn't too far for the girls
to ride?
This seems very doable.
imo

I think its definitely doable. I just looked at Google maps of my old elementary school neighborhood. We went all over the place on our bikes at age 10. Everywhere between 1-1.5 miles. Scares me when I think about it now!

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[Jules71]

Why would they get off the trail there on gilbert?

The bike path after that looks secluded/wooded according to maps. Maybe it was dark and scary. Maybe they wanted to go by the side of the skate park. Not sure. Maybe that's just the way they knew to go.

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[Sere-nity]

Do Gilbert and Fran intersect?

A local would have to answer that. On both google and bing maps the Fran appears to be blocked off.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think its definitely doable. I just looked at Google maps of my old elementary school neighborhood. We went all over the place on our bikes at age 10. Everywhere between 1-1.5 miles. Scares me when I think about it now!

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LOL
,I've done the same thing since following this case.
I guess as kids we often rode farther than we planned.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

BBM
It's probably not real important since most people know who is being referred to, but DC is Eliazbeth's father, DM is Lyrics father (the one who was arrested for drugs, etc.) I've seen this mixed up by a few people now.

You are absolutely correct. I was able to edit it to correct the initials. DM is who I meant but typed them wrong. There are so many initials floating around we need a score sheet sometimes. :waitasec: Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

[CHERIE.T]

A local would have to answer that. On both google and bing maps the Fran appears to be blocked off.

Thanks Sere-nity. Since the map is no longer here, I wont worry about the streets.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

It's interesting that some criminals do insert themselves into an investigation. I don't know but I imagine they think of themselves as sly. MNDad, your ideas are interesting. I believe they were mentioned in earlier threads. I know that some people believe that there had to be at least two perps involved but I don't think there had to be. I think one person could have done it. A menacing man, for example, would have been very frightening to me as a child. I don't believe having a friend along would have caused me to feel less terrified at the age of 9 or 10, either. It's possible that whoever abducted the girls used a gun (as was mentioned earlier in the thread) but I don't think that would be necessary. I think telling two scared little girls that you have a gun in your pocket would be enough to have them do as they're told. That being said, I can think of a scenerio in which a perp would not need a gun or to say that he had one in order to abduct two girls. I'll use THE white van, since it's so...popular. Let's say that a perp is walking around the block or to his mailbox. We can also have him jogging, or riding a bike or a skateboard for that matter. He sees the girls. He pretends to fall at a time and place he knows the girls cannot help but notice. They stop to help him or maybe he asks them to help him up. They drop their bikes to assist the "nice" man to his feet. When the "nice" man stands up, he can't walk -- he must have broken/sprained his ankle. If the girls will just help him get to his van that's parked right there at the edge of the woods, he will drive himself to the hospital. Maybe he needs one or both to hold his hand so he doesn't fall. Maybe he needs someone to carry his skateboard/push his bike back to his van. Of course, they're going to help this nice man. They can't leave him hurt and alone. It wouldn't be the right thing to do. It wouldn't be "kind." He's so appreciative of the help they are giving him. If they'll just open the sliding door/back door on the van, he thinks he can get in easier (or he needs them to put his skateboard/bike in the van for him). The girls open the door. Maybe they get inside to help pull him up. Maybe he pushes them inside. Regardless, he gets the girls inside. It's quiet. It's quick. It works. They're gone.

Was in bold subconscious, deliberate... or chance? Hm...

 

[CHERIE.T]

Considering,
Much like T. Bundy. His props were fake cast and unneeded crutches.
And what are we generally taught?

To help someone in need.:banghead:
Forgot to add, you have a good theory.

 

[MNDad]

Feasible?
YEP and btw, that's my theory.
That's all I can say now. :banghead:
imo

I would also hope that someone this intelligent would also realize that if some of us here think something is hinky than LE most likely is putting this puzzle together to see what pieces fit and which puzzle pieces appear like they came from a different box. This type of person has the brain power to evade everyone for quite a while, so they are most likely successful in their other endevours, but as someone that is experienced at life, they also know that nothing lasts forever. They most likely understand the differences in punishment for abduction versus murder and since we have already established that do realize by now that nothing lasts forever and they will get caught, I hoping that they realize that although they have made a horrible mistake, that perhaps it is not too late to accept their fate with a lessor punishment for abduction only.

If it is too late, this wordly person will realize that losing a child is the worst pain ever and no amount of time, even after, let's say arbitrarily 8 years, that pain is still there. But the pain of not knowing what happened is a far greater pain. Perhaps they have a daughter of their own, or two, and when they look at them, the shame will guide them to do the right thing.

 

[dotr]

http://www.netplaces.com/private-in...adolescents/the-missing-or-abducted-child.htm
" Who is the stranger? Is it the neighbor who walks his dog in front of the house every day? Is the landscape worker or housekeeper a stranger? Is the clerk at the local store? The insurance salesman? The maintenance man?

Yes and no. They may not be the family's closest friends, but neither are they total strangers to parent or child. Some call this type the acquaintance abductor. These familiar fixtures in the lives of families aren't likely to appear sinister. People feel that they know someone who is often around, yet behind the smiling dog walker's exterior could beat the heart of a predator. Furthermore, statistics show that these — and persons even closer to families — are the most likely abductors of children. Doctors, teachers, scout leaders, school bus drivers, preachers, priests, coaches — even baby-sitters, friends, and relatives abuse children. What's worse, abusers often choose a profession that brings them close to under-aged children".

 

[cindersoot]

I just got done watching, the movie 'Megan is missing'. Im shocked, sickened and will probally never be the same.