IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[GrainneDhu]

I was upset when I saw it but can see both sides. Back to my point about local vernacular - to me "search" and "hunt" are not even close to interchageable. Everyone is "searching" for the girls, not "hunting" for them. To me "hunting" means "find it and kill it." Do you "search for" deer or do you "hunt" them? Personally I search for deer and enjoy watching them graze. I don't hunt them. (and yes, I realize I'm a total hypocrite for buying a steak on the way home, just for the record).

I think it might just be a regional language thing.

ETA: I hope it's obvious my last question was rhetorical and not directed at anyone personally.

I'm certainly not offended, I was the one who asked the question and I wasn't snarking, I was truly curious.

Maybe it's from knowing hunters and having hunted myself. Going hunting no more guarantees food on the table than going fishing does. No matter how skilful the hunter, no matter how well scouted the location, you just never know. The fish, the deer, the birds, they all do as they darn well please (to paraphrase the Harvard law).

As a teenager, I fox hunted. Never once saw a fox killed and, at least in the US, that's not the point of the sport at all. The point is to watch hounds work the scent, fly across country on a hot horse and do things you'd never do if you were all alone. With the sanction of adults, people who supposedly knew better. <snicker>

So now I wonder, what do I mean when I say I am hunting something? Your post made me think. To me, hunting is to have a definite goal in mind, to follow all clues and go to great lengths to find what I am hunting for. What happens at the end of the hunt is, to a great extent, irrelevant. Could be food on the table, could be an empty day, the point is to try and keep on trying.

To me, searching is something where you have a defined area to look in. We're nowhere near that stage with Elizabeth and Lyric, sadly... unless LE knows a lot more than I think they do.

I won't even get into what I think of white tail deer (aka long legged suburban rats) except to say that the Bambi who thinks he can go through my backyard with impunity has a contract on his head, come 15 September.

 

[daisynae]

I was upset when I saw it but can see both sides. Back to my point about local vernacular - to me "search" and "hunt" are not even close to interchageable. Everyone is "searching" for the girls, not "hunting" for them. To me "hunting" means "find it and kill it." Do you "search for" deer or do you "hunt" them? Personally I search for deer and enjoy watching them graze. I don't hunt them. (and yes, I realize I'm a total hypocrite for buying a steak on the way home, just for the record).

I think it might just be a regional language thing.

ETA: I hope it's obvious my last question was rhetorical and not directed at anyone personally.

You were not alone with your anger!
You hunt annimals not people,
No matter where you live!
These are little girls we are talking about!
Very DISRESPECTFUL to the girls
and the family!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Are LE still saying they believe the girls to be alive?.

Ive said this before but i dont think the girls were taken by the drug underworld types to send a message to Lyric's dad.They would have to let him know what theyve done to send the message and im sure if that was the case Lyrics dad would go straight to LE,i mean he and LE would have a name to act on.
I know if i got a call to say my boys or nieces had been taken or hurt to pay me back because i did something wrong to someone else and i had a name id be straight on to LE followed by several other calls to round up a few friends..

I believe it was in the last thread that someone posted a summary of the latest interview with one of the family.

As for what the FBI said, the family member (whose name I cannot recall) said that it was as many experienced WS'ers surmised: there was no evidence of death, so the FBI and other LE are assuming that indicates the girls are still alive.

LE has played those word games before. And sometimes, it really does come true. There is always hope.

 

[GrainneDhu]

You were not alone with your anger!
You hunt annimals not people,
No matter where you live!
These are little girls we are talking about!
Very DISRESPECTFUL to the girls
and the family!

It suddenly occurred to me that this may be another Iowa regional thing. It's clearly not shared by people in other places.

In Iowa, we have hunts for hungry families. No, it doesn't mean to seek out and kill hungry families, it means to hunt in order to donate venison to a hungry family. In that context, it means "hunt on behalf of." Iowans just say "hunt for hungry families" and trust in context to make the meaning clear.

When I read "The Hunt for Elizabeth and Lyric" I don't think of hunting Elizabeth and Lyric down to kill them. Not at all. I think of it as meaning "the hunt on behalf of Elizabeth and Lyric" because that's what makes sense in the context.

To a great extent, LE is hunting down the perpetrator because that is the most likely way to find the girls alive. It is clearly not LE's only line of enquiry but it is one of the major ones.

I'm not in favour of anyone being killed. I suspect I'm in a tiny minority of WS'ers because I am adamantly opposed to the death penalty and am glad that Iowa does not have it.

But hunting does not equal killing. Any experienced hunter knows that! A hunter who goes out thinking the hunt is a sure thing is usually a hunter who has to stop at the grocery store on the way home.

I know absolutely that I intend no disrespect to the families of Elizabeth and Lyric when I tell my husband how the hunt for them is going. I trust that, as fellow Iowans, they understand that.

 

[Thespyma]

I'm certainly not offended, I was the one who asked the question and I wasn't snarking, I was truly curious.

Maybe it's from knowing hunters and having hunted myself. Going hunting no more guarantees food on the table than going fishing does. No matter how skilful the hunter, no matter how well scouted the location, you just never know. The fish, the deer, the birds, they all do as they darn well please (to paraphrase the Harvard law).

As a teenager, I fox hunted. Never once saw a fox killed and, at least in the US, that's not the point of the sport at all. The point is to watch hounds work the scent, fly across country on a hot horse and do things you'd never do if you were all alone. With the sanction of adults, people who supposedly knew better. <snicker>

So now I wonder, what do I mean when I say I am hunting something? Your post made me think. To me, hunting is to have a definite goal in mind, to follow all clues and go to great lengths to find what I am hunting for. What happens at the end of the hunt is, to a great extent, irrelevant. Could be food on the table, could be an empty day, the point is to try and keep on trying...

I was also thinking along those lines. I mean people "hunt" for Easter eggs and they go on scavenger hunts. I go hunting for clothes in the morning sometimes. Nothing gets killed in these. Also traditional fox hunts described by my British friends never result in a dead fox, it is a game of chase and find by scent detected by dogs. I can see that search sounds better, less ominous maybe but hunt does not seem offensive to me. Just my opinion.

 

[SoSueMe]

Enough with the spelling and grammar criticism, it's beyond rude. We're here to discuss the case of two missing girls. Please reconsider and prioritize your intentions, thoughts and contributions to this endeavor.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Grainnedhu i just want to apologise now but every time i see your name i see it as 'Granny' sorry.
Ill try not to use it if i reply to your posts

 

[GrainneDhu]

Grainnedhu i just want to apologise now but every time i see your name i see it as 'Granny' sorry.
Ill try not to use it if i reply to your posts

Not a problem. I actually don't have it spelled right; there is supposed to be a jumped-up accent mark thingie over the A but I don't know how to make my computer do such things.

Maybe it helps if I tell you it is pronounced "grahn-yuh." Well, that's one way to pronounce it but there are different pronunciations depending on accent.

 

[CN2Souls]

This maybe a really stupid question.... Please don't flame me... anic:

But they did search INSIDE the lift station building... RIGHT?


AKA, Pump house on the end of Arbtus...640 Arbutus Ave, Evansdale

 

[Marilynilpa]

Another week has started, school is back in session in most places, and Lyric and Elizabeth are still missing. I try hard to hold on to hope that the girls are still alive, but that hope fades with each passing day. I can't imagine how the family and friends of these little girls are able to cope.

I am frustrated, and I want to go to Iowa and search day and night for these girls. I want to talk to the kids they were friends with. I want to hug the parents and grandmothers and take away a little of their pain. I want to do ANYTHING to help, but I can do nothing but pose theories here on WS and wonder if we are even close to figuring it out.

I just want them to come home.

 

[iSleuth]

Are LE still saying they believe the girls to be alive?.

Ive said this before but i dont think the girls were taken by the drug underworld types to send a message to Lyric's dad.They would have to let him know what theyve done to send the message and im sure if that was the case Lyrics dad would go straight to LE,i mean he and LE would have a name to act on.
I know if i got a call to say my boys or nieces had been taken or hurt to pay me back because i did something wrong to someone else and i had a name id be straight on to LE followed by several other calls to round up a few friends..

I have heard gangs and Drug Underworld types have different messages encoded in hits. Doubtful one would get an explicit call saying " we took your children because...." These actions would have its own message-even types of deaths have codes in the mafia. In the trunk ( person messed up-silenced), shot in a public place - switching of the guard- or head of club, in the face- a rat ( no open casket for the family). Kidnapping- killing a family member- has its own message. Payment or a warning.

.....Or maybe to gain leniency change the status or tone of a court action of some sort.

Interesting, how timelines & missing children come into play in these cases sometimes. In this case, and a certain case in AZ - continuances &charges go poof!

 

[Marilynilpa]

This maybe a really stupid question.... Please don't flame me... anic:

But they did search INSIDE the lift station building... RIGHT?


AKA, Pump house on the end of Arbtus...640 Arbutus Ave, Evansdale

That's a good question. I don't recall seeing any MSM report that the building was searched, but I can't imagine it being overlooked. I wish Ollipop would come back to us - he could probably answer that question!

 

[daisynae]

Another week has started, school is back in session in most places, and Lyric and Elizabeth are still missing. I try hard to hold on to hope that the girls are still alive, but that hope fades with each passing day. I can't imagine how the family and friends of these little girls are able to cope.

I am frustrated, and I want to go to Iowa and search day and night for these girls. I want to talk to the kids they were friends with. I want to hug the parents and grandmothers and take away a little of their pain. I want to do ANYTHING to help, but I can do nothing but pose theories here on WS and wonder if we are even close to figuring it out.

I just want them to come home.

Thank you for that. So do I.

 

[CN2Souls]

I go Back and forth on were they at the lake when they were abducted or not&#8230;.?



Just a Note:
I have always loved WebSleuth for the very reason almost all of the poster allow others to post without bashing, or criticizing, others theories, opinions, grammar and spelling.
We are family here...:hug: MOO

Peeps that have been here awhile know me, know I am profoundly dyslexia, and have to redo my post about 10 times before I get them right, even then, I miss something.

I like it when everyone brains storms, and as if most posters have stated, we do not know what happened therefore nothing could really be eliminated.

However, we only have so little facts we may need to compile and extrapolate a bit to piece together a complete theory.

 

[daisynae]

It suddenly occurred to me that this may be another Iowa regional thing. It's clearly not shared by people in other places.

In Iowa, we have hunts for hungry families. No, it doesn't mean to seek out and kill hungry families, it means to hunt in order to donate venison to a hungry family. In that context, it means "hunt on behalf of." Iowans just say "hunt for hungry families" and trust in context to make the meaning clear.

When I read "The Hunt for Elizabeth and Lyric" I don't think of hunting Elizabeth and Lyric down to kill them. Not at all. I think of it as meaning "the hunt on behalf of Elizabeth and Lyric" because that's what makes sense in the context.

To a great extent, LE is hunting down the perpetrator because that is the most likely way to find the girls alive. It is clearly not LE's only line of enquiry but it is one of the major ones.

I'm not in favour of anyone being killed. I suspect I'm in a tiny minority of WS'ers because I am adamantly opposed to the death penalty and am glad that Iowa does not have it.

But hunting does not equal killing. Any experienced hunter knows that! A hunter who goes out thinking the hunt is a sure thing is usually a hunter who has to stop at the grocery store on the way home.

I know absolutely that I intend no disrespect to the families of Elizabeth and Lyric when I tell my husband how the hunt for them is going. I trust that, as fellow Iowans, they understand that.

I am sorry if you though I was being in anyway harsh to you
I was expressing the chioce of words
in a newspaper.
It just struck me as odd.
But everything in this case is odd.
Please forgive me if I made you feel bad.lease:

 

[daisynae]

I go Back and forth on were they at the lake when they were abducted or not….?



Just a Note:
I have always loved WebSleuth for the very reason almost all of the poster allow others to post without bashing, or criticizing, others theories, opinions, grammar and spelling.
We are family here...:hug: MOO

Peeps that have been here awhile know me, know I am profoundly dyslexia, and have to redo my post about 10 times before I get them right, even then, I miss something.

I like it when everyone brains storms, and as if most posters have stated, we do not know what happened therefore nothing could really be eliminated.

However, we only have so little facts we may need to compile and extrapolate a bit to piece together a complete theory.

Well you sure do a great job.
I have spent MORE than half of my time in the edit box1

 

[CN2Souls]

I believe if Aunt Tammy spoke with LE about the reason she thought they went to the lake was because
Elizabeth had gone to the lake with the neighbor girls,
That LE would have spoken to those children with their parents present and found out if there was reason they went to the lake and if they ever associated with any one there.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I go Back and forth on were they at the lake when they were abducted or not….?



Just a Note:
I have always loved WebSleuth for the very reason almost all of the poster allow others to post without bashing, or criticizing, others theories, opinions, grammar and spelling.
We are family here...:hug: MOO

Peeps that have been here awhile know me, know I am profoundly dyslexia, and have to redo my post about 10 times before I get them right, even then, I miss something.

I like it when everyone brains storms, and as if most posters have stated, we do not know what happened therefore nothing could really be eliminated.

However, we only have so little facts we may need to compile and extrapolate a bit to piece together a complete theory.

I believe the girls were abducted at the lake. It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. I know the bikes could have been staged, but IMO that is just such a big unnecessary risk. If you pull off the abduction of two girls in broad daylight, why take a chance on getting caught at the lake leaving their bikes? Why not take the bikes with you, or just leave them where you abducted the girls? To me, it just doesn't make sense.

By the way, I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[Sere-nity]

What if they weren't taken for sexual reasons or revenge, but as a punishment against a slight the kidnapper(s) felt happened to them. Like, what if their child was killed or locked up or otherwise taken away from them because of meth, and the kidnapper blames it on the dealer/manufacturer of the drug.

Like, you took my child so I am going to take yours.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I believe if Aunt Tammy spoke with LE about the reason she thought they went to the lake was because
Elizabeth had gone to the lake with the neighbor girls,
That LE would have spoken to those children with their parents present and found out if there was reason they went to the lake and if they ever associated with any one there.

I hope that when these children were spoken to, they were reassured that they wouldn't get in trouble by telling what they knew. I feel that the Lyric and Elizabeth went to the lake for a specific reason, although I have no idea what that reason might be. If we could ever figure that out, we might be on our way to learning the truth about what happened to them, IMO.

I have a hard time believing this was a random abduction. JMO.