IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[brighidin]

Abben said that the bikes were leaning against the fence when he got there. he said it during one of the pressers. I searched for it last time this came up in conversation and am not going to do it again, but if you care to search my posts, you will find it. I think I found it on Patty G's youtube channel, but I'm not 100% positive.

 

[threecrazykids]

Police tape lines the area towards the back of Meyers Lake while the lake is drained as authorities continue to search Monday, July 16, 2012,

See...this shows the taping off and you can't even SEE where the other end of the tape line is...so it was a pretty large section that was taped off (not sure when this was taken)...so no one could have ridden the back side of the lake at all without crossing these lines. You could go towards the back side of the lake but wouldn't be able to complete all the way around to Arbatus (based on the way TG's bike was facing).

:waitasec:

So, either TG came down the "Arbatus" side of the lake, and turned his bike around (facing Arbatus) to speak to officers...or he had ridden from the opposite side of the lake to where he is shown (which would mean the pic of him speaking to officers was taken BEFORE it was all taped off.)

Everyone following me?

 

[nursebeeme]

Abben said that the bikes were leaning against the fence when he got there. he said it during one of the pressers. I searched for it last time this came up in conversation and am not going to do it again, but if you care to search my posts, you will find it. I think I found it on Patty G's youtube channel, but I'm not 100% positive.

I recall this as well..

(and for the record he was describing how they looked when he got there... not how they were when they were initially found)

:moo:

 

[Snowbunny]

See...this shows the taping off and you can't even SEE where the other end of the tape line is...so it was a pretty large section that was taped off (not sure when this was taken)...so no one could have ridden the back side of the lake at all without crossing these lines. You could go towards the back side of the lake but wouldn't be able to complete all the way around to Arbatus (based on the way TG's bike was facing).

:waitasec:

Am I wrong here or does it look like one of the fence poles on the left hand side second from the bottom is bent towards the wooded area?

 

[threecrazykids]

I recall this as well..

(and for the record he was describing how they looked when he got there... not how they were when they were initially found)

:moo:

Exactly...he's only referencing what HE saw, not reporting how they were found. Which, of course being my skeptical self, makes me wonder WHO moved the bikes...and IF it was LE, they won't speak a word about it as it could hinder a case if the scene was processed sloppily or anything could have been contaminated by someone moving the bikes before any fingerprints were taken etc. I've always wondered why they hadn't clarified how the bikes were found by the firemen.

LE loves to keep us on our toes! LOL

 

[Sunlight]

Am I wrong here or does it look like one of the fence poles on the left hand side second from the bottom is bent towards the wooded area?

Not sure, but I think (looking at the shadows) that this was taken at the same time as the other pic of TG talking to the officers. I think this was taken from the Arbutus side, looking West. The fence on the left would then be the fence along the highway side, and yes, the top half of that metal post is bent...but toward the highway. JMHO

 

[Jax49]

I'm starting to wonder if the kids were even abducted at the lake at all since the video shows them going in the opposite direction of the lake at 12:11pm. Also in one of the articles I read it was stated that the gate is normally locked but for some reason on this particular day the gate wasn't locked. I wonder who is responsible for locking and unlocking the gate. The purse and cellphone were found neatly laid on the lake side of the fence from what I've been reading. Something just isn't adding up in my books here.

BBM

Per local OLLIPOP the gate had been unlocked for a couple of years. There's lots of other intersting info in the quote also.


(Quoting from thread #9.)


I remember when I first started looking into this case and joined WS, that was brought up - perhaps I saw it on a map. I had remembered it was pretty well obscured from view from Arbutus, but that I'd seen a city vehicle parked there once and wondered what it was.

When I went to check it out, I noticed the area around it had been cleared considerably since I'd first noticed it (that time period could be as much as a couple years). They drained Meyers Lake a couple years back, and I've steadily noticed small improvements that seem to have been done at that time: the jetty was built up - it used to be all but submerged (I remember my kids and I watching a turtle teeter on the edge of the drain pipe once, but there was no way to walk out there. It was just a weird, scary hole in the surace of the lake, draining like a bathtub. After the draining/refilling there was a jetty to walk right out to it.); the gate had been enlarged, but the lock had never been replaced; much of the undergrowth and trees right along the lake shore - all the way around - had been cleared away; the shoreline from the parking area around to the southwest corner had been covered with huge rocks, I assume to prevent erosion; the pump/lift house had been cleared around, so that it was no longer a mysterious building back in the woods, but was clearly visible from the road, and had a nice wide, clear driveway/parking area for 1-2 vehicles. Even noticing all this, I'd never seen Maiden Lane until I went looking for it. (end quote)

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As for the 12:11 video, I've had nightmares trying to figure how all the pieces could fit together, with no success. Away from the lake, CCTV 8 minutes off which makes it 12:19, TG's 12:20ish sighting, and Mr Pahl's infamous "I don't think I could ride/bike a mile in eight minutes" quote?????

 

[Snowbunny]

So then it is possible that those bikes could have been thrown over the fence unless that fence is been like that for a long time. I know its a long shot but something just isn't adding up for me in this case.

 

[Snowbunny]

I just can't fathom two kids just disappearing in thin air without a trace. If that bend in the fence is on the highway side how close to the fence does the under brush go up to the fence. Could someone walk two bikes along the outside of the fence and the highway and not be seen. I cannot imagine someone being able to throw two bikes over the fence in broad day light on the highway side and take a chance of being noticed but I guess anything is possible.

 

[callyn]

I just can't fathom two kids just disappearing in thin air without a trace. If that bend in the fence is on the highway side how close to the fence does the under brush go up to the fence. Could someone walk two bikes along the outside of the fence and the highway and not be seen. I cannot imagine someone being able to throw two bikes over the fence in broad day light on the highway side and take a chance of being noticed but I guess anything is possible.

This wouldn't explain how the purse got on the lake side of the fence. The purse being there throws a monkey wrench into lots of my theories, too.:banghead:

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm starting to wonder if the kids were even abducted at the lake at all since the video shows them going in the opposite direction of the lake at 12:11pm. Also in one of the articles I read it was stated that the gate is normally locked but for some reason on this particular day the gate wasn't locked. I wonder who is responsible for locking and unlocking the gate. The purse and cellphone were found neatly laid on the lake side of the fence from what I've been reading. Something just isn't adding up in my books here.

Chief Deputy Rick Abben saying the girls were going in the opposite direction of the lake has never made sense to me.

Look at a map or imagine a triangle balanced on one point. No matter which way you move along the side on top, you're not really moving towards or away from the point. If you move far enough, then sure, you'd be moving away from the lake but from where that video was shot, that cannot be ascertained.

I have long wondered if he let slip a teensy-tiny clue with that. Since the girls were riding west in that video, did he unconsciously let slip that their bicycles were pointed west when found at the lake? In that context, saying they were going the opposite direction makes sense.

I can't think of any other context in which saying that would make sense.

 

[Sunlight]

LE said that the bikes were placed neatly (either laying or not laying) as was the purse, and there was no sign of a struggle. That is all they say they have, other than evidence that was collected and is being analyzed. That is all they are really saying...other than that the dogs tracked to the "water". MOO

 

[TxLady2]

Little tiny bit off topic....

All Right I am not Ranting on LE AT ALL!!!

However…We just had a alert in our gated community here that a 3 year old little girl was missing.

She had been outside playing and then she was gone. They locked the front gate and refused any cars to leave or come in.

(we have a 12-foot concrete wall around the outside of the community, one-way in one-way out)

LE was called along with fire and rescue. We have about 200 homes here and they started going door to door asking if they could search everyone’s house,

well this went on for about 3 hours, they came to my house and just skipped right by!

I yelled out the door “hey, you missed my house!”

They yelled back “You work for us, we don’t need to search your house”

I went Ape Sh*%!

I said “No way get in here and search like everyone else,” they said

“WHY do you have her?

I said “No!”

It is the point of the matter, It does not matter what they do or who they work for search their house, even if is the president of the UUUUUUUnited SSSSSSSSSStates SEARCH them all! “

Therefore, they searched my house.

Moral of the story… I just wonder how often this goes on… LE think just because they may be someone they know that they wouldn't do something against the law…

Oh, and they found the little girl she was at her house sleeping in a laundry hamper…

I'm sorry... no offense to you, but what was the point in making them search your house if YOU knew the little girl was not there? I just fail to understand what exactly that accomplished, other than costing someone time that they could be searching somewhere else. Is it going to change anything?
I'm glad they found the little girl safe and sound and I can see your point that they SHOULD have done it to start with, but then going on to insist that they come back and search was just, IMO, unnecessary, because... she wasn't there. So, not to ruffle your feathers, I just don't get the point. Sorry.

 

[Sunlight]

Chief Deputy Rick Abben saying the girls were going in the opposite direction of the lake has never made sense to me.

Look at a map or imagine a triangle balanced on one point. No matter which way you move along the side on top, you're not really moving towards or away from the point. If you move far enough, then sure, you'd be moving away from the lake but from where that video was shot, that cannot be ascertained.

I have long wondered if he let slip a teensy-tiny clue with that. Since the girls were riding west in that video, did he unconsciously let slip that their bicycles were pointed west when found at the lake? In that context, saying they were going the opposite direction makes sense.

I can't think of any other context in which saying that would make sense.

I think so, because he said, "it is important to note". MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

See...this shows the taping off and you can't even SEE where the other end of the tape line is...so it was a pretty large section that was taped off (not sure when this was taken)...so no one could have ridden the back side of the lake at all without crossing these lines. You could go towards the back side of the lake but wouldn't be able to complete all the way around to Arbatus (based on the way TG's bike was facing).

:waitasec:

So, either TG came down the "Arbatus" side of the lake, and turned his bike around (facing Arbatus) to speak to officers...or he had ridden from the opposite side of the lake to where he is shown (which would mean the pic of him speaking to officers was taken BEFORE it was all taped off.)

Everyone following me?

Or, considering that everyone and their brother had gone through that whole area, LE took him back into the cordoned area to show them exactly where he saw the bicycles on the trail and how they were positioned.

Then they came back out and obligingly posed for the photographer.

I find it very hard to believe that a news reporter would lie about the day they took a certain shot.

 

[Sunlight]

Or, considering that everyone and their brother had gone through that whole area, LE took him back into the cordoned area to show them exactly where he saw the bicycles on the trail and how they were positioned.

Then they came back out and obligingly posed for the photographer.

I find it very hard to believe that a new reporter would lie about the day they took a certain shot.

Since I commented on this, I just want to make it clear that I don't believe the reporter lied about anything myself, only that there is a very limited "quote", and that LE has not publicly acknowledged the reported sighting...at least not in this manner.

Also, I think you make an excellent point that if he was telling them he saw the bikes there that they would want to know where he saw them. It was not an "official" reporting of the incident..in fact, they were reportedly off duty..according to the reporter. MOO

 

[CN2Souls]

Thank you so much to all you poster who don't mind reposting things that you may have already posted or discussed theory's. :hug:

Some of the poster here are NEW and / or have limited time on here and also have very little time to reread ALL of the 18 threads that have least over 1000 post a piece. that makes 18,000 post. Days worth of reading.

Once again to all of you who care enough to bring the NEW posters and one that only can get on here for a couple minutes everyday up to speed on the case...and theory's.

:blowkiss:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Exactly...he's only referencing what HE saw, not reporting how they were found. Which, of course being my skeptical self, makes me wonder WHO moved the bikes...and IF it was LE, they won't speak a word about it as it could hinder a case if the scene was processed sloppily or anything could have been contaminated by someone moving the bikes before any fingerprints were taken etc. I've always wondered why they hadn't clarified how the bikes were found by the firemen.

LE loves to keep us on our toes! LOL

Maybe.

Or it may be one of the details they are using to sort through tips.

For example, say the volunteer firefighter who found the bicycles found them lying on the trail. That person propped them up to keep a police vehicle from running right over them (at this point, no one was even thinking of abduction, just the chance that the two girls had drowned).

Later, a hypothetical witness comes forward who saw the bicycles laying across the trail at 1:15 pm. LE is certain that this witness is credible, so let's say the hypothetical witness actually took a cell phone pic of the two bicycles and left them laying across the trail. The volunteer firefighter looks at the picture and confirms that it shows the bicycles in exactly the same position that they were found in.

Then someone turns in a tip saying they saw the bicycles leaning against the fence at 2:30 pm. Does this sound credible? Or is this a witness whose background and whereabouts that day should be checked out?

I'd say the tip isn't credible but I'd be mighty curious as to why they turned in that tip. Probably just misguided but sometimes a perp tries to confuse things by turning in tips they know are wrong.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I can't make any sense of this. If the cyclist saw the bikes, then the children rode their bikes fast to get to the location where he saw them and then the children vanished. The alternative is that a cyclist saw two other bikes on the same trail where two bikes were abandoned in connection with child abductions, or he can't figure out which day is Friday.

The chances seem slim to none that the abandoned bikes he saw belonged to two other children, especially since local posters have ridden the trail and reported that the trail is generally unused ... and no other children have come forward to report that they left their bikes abandoned on the trail that day.

It kind of seems like the bikes belonged to the missing girls, but how did they get there so fast ... unless they rode their bikes there. How could that havve happened if they didn't have a plan ... where did they meet the person that lured Lyric to the lake and could it have happened 4 days ealier?

Otto, I still think the abductions were planned. And I'm leaning towards the sightings possibly being another day. Remember, LE afaik hasn't confirmed the cyclist sighting.

 

[Bootsctr]

Ok, in this picture TG's bike is facing TOWARDS Arbatus. I firmly believe this pic was taken on the back side of the lake, where both fences are...but maybe up a bit from the exact section where the bikes were found. If he would keep riding in the direction he's facing he would come right up on Arbatus .

So, if the section of the trail (even a small part) was taped off on Friday after they were discovered missing he couldn't have ridden his bike through the trail the way he's currently facing. He couldn't have gotten through the way he's facing.

Are we 100% certain this pic isn't from Friday???...and maybe the report just STATED it was a pic from Monday?

I don't see any way anyone could have had a bike/walked etc. in ANY section of that trail without crossing police lines. It literally cut off the entire back section of the trail that had fences on both sides so unless you went through police lines you'd never be able to ride the entire perimeter of the lake and be facing the direction his bike is facing.

MOO is that this pic was taken on Friday....NOT Monday.

Now if only I knew why LE hasn't included TG's account in their official timeline. It just makes me so sad to think that TG could have been within FEET of this abduction happening and not even know it. Prayers to him.

Thank you so much for saying this. I no longer feel like I am going :Banane10::Bananahi::Banane48. I know there was a discussion about Mr. G's picture and what day it was taken. I could have sworn that the first time I saw that picture the article was dated the 13th. There was also a second picture of Mr. G with LE and I cannot find that picture any more. Not sleuthing anyone just wish MSM would get it right. MOO too is that the picture and the other picture were taken on Friday.