IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

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Labelling it an "abduction" doesn't necessarily exclude family.

If they have been "cleared" why is the interview tape being requested, and why were they dragged out of bed in the middle of the night to be aggressively questioned?

Sadly, dead children don't need "guarding".

By the actions and continued investigation direction we are seeing from LE, it is obvious to me that NO ONE has been cleared. I simply can't view it any other way.

Not bashing family, just stating opinion. They are looking in several different places at once, but efforts tend to be concentrated where they do the most good. Further investigating an already "cleared" family is not going to happen.

:dunno:

ETA - Deputy Abben specifically said family were still suspects and being looked into.

Abben said despite Dan and Misty Morrissey's criminal backgrounds, no one set of parents is being targeted."Now that it is an abduction everyone is a suspect until we find these people, these two young girls. We look at everybody not just one set of parents over the other," he said. "... Everything has to be considered."
He did however say that they requested the court put Dan Morrissey under supervision in connection with a pending drug trial so they "could have closer supervision."
Dan Morrissey has been out on bond since May 11 in connection with two methamphetamine arrests in December 2011.
"We are not looking at anyone. Everybody is being checked into," Abben said. "It was originally supposed to be done because of the charge he was under. I think it was an oversight and something that was supposed to be done anyway to be put out on pretrial like that."


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

That article is dated 22 July. If anyone from LE has since cleared anyone apart from MK, I'd love to hear about it...I'm under the impression that they have not?

:confused:

bumping this up as a jumping point for a reminder.. not just directed at your post SS:


please remember our rules here about discussing the parents. I see it creeping back in again.

Also: the facebook question: private facebooks are private and cannot be linked to or discussed.
 
bumping this up as a jumping point for a reminder.. not just directed at your post SS:


please remember our rules here about discussing the parents. I see it creeping back in again.

Also: the facebook question: private facebooks are private and cannot be linked to or discussed.


Apologies, I sincerely tried not to breach tos.

I was wishing to confirm the statement by another poster that they have been "exluded" because I must've missed it.

Eliminating them is a very important, early part of the investigation and if it's been confirmed, it changes my sleuthing parameters entirely.

:waitasec:
 
Apologies, I sincerely tried not to breach tos.

I was wishing to confirm the statement by another poster that they have been "exluded" because I must've missed it.

Eliminating them is a very important, early part of the investigation and if it's been confirmed, it changes my sleuthing parameters entirely.

:waitasec:

It is okay to talk about what is in the main stream media... but we all know that things have gone WAY beyond that and it has started to creep back in. Heck the family could be cleared by now but we don't know that. I don't think they would call a presser to name off those they have cleared. So we have what was printed on and reported on and that is it pretty much.

As for if we ever will find out what LE knows... I don't see that happening until or unless something breaks.



ETA: in my warning I also said my warning was not directed at your post but jumping off of it. Just wanted to add that in.

I thought about the girls all day today while we were painting our house and eating sweet corn. I kept thinking.. geez... I sure wish they were home with their families enjoying some Iowa sweet corn on Labor day....
 
I'm reading a non-fiction book about a person that was reported missing by a family member and who was later found murdered. Three point seem worth mentioning:

1. investigators reported that they believed that the missing person was alive until the body was found
2. the family was not tearful, or falling apart emotionally, while the person was missing, but rather was stoic and hopeful
3. after the body was found, then the tears flowed for the cameras and the grief was permanently etched in the faces of the family
 
I think that is exactly what some people want to see. Fortunately, responsible journalists no longer pander to such tastes.

It struck me the other day what Misty's affect reminds me of. To me, her smiles always contradict her eyes. Her eyes look worried and sad, while her lips smile. I suddenly realised, "well, duh. She has worked retail, where that sort of fake smile is demanded as a condition of employment in many stores and food outlets."

My heart aches for her.

Personally, I think it's pretty weird that anyone would want to see proof that someone was experiencing extreme emotional pain. Let's suppose, for a moment, that the family got in front of the cameras completely falling apart - helplessly floundering, falling to their knees, wailing, sniffling, tears drenching the microphone, incoherent, and let's suppose that the children are alive and have access to the news. It's simply not helpful, and every responsible reporter should know that. For the life of me, I simply have no comprehension of the type of performance that people are expecting from the family of kidnapped children. Even innocent families of murdered children smile when in front of the camera ... if only because the good memories are right beside the sad ones.
 
I think that is exactly what some people want to see. Fortunately, responsible journalists no longer pander to such tastes.

It struck me the other day what Misty's affect reminds me of. To me, her smiles always contradict her eyes. Her eyes look worried and sad, while her lips smile. I suddenly realised, "well, duh. She has worked retail, where that sort of fake smile is demanded as a condition of employment in many stores and food outlets."

My heart aches for her.

I agree with both of you. Her smile doesn't reach her eyes, she looks lost to me. I worked in retail for a couple years and we were told to smile at everyone even if they're rude or complaining. I know many people who always seem to have a smile on their face, regardless of the situation. It seems to be built in. My FIL is one of those people, I rarely see him without a smile, even if it's a tiny one.
 
Personally, I think it's pretty weird that anyone would want to see proof that someone was experiencing extreme emotional pain. Let's suppose, for a moment, that the family got in front of the cameras completely falling apart - helplessly floundering, falling to their knees, wailing, sniffling, tears drenching the microphone, incoherent, and let's suppose that the children are alive and have access to the news. It's simply not helpful, and every responsible reporter should know that. For the life of me, I simply have no comprehension of the type of performance that people are expecting from the family of kidnapped children. Even innocent families of murdered children smile when in front of the camera ... if only because the good memories are right beside the sad ones.

I disagree. If you've followed more than a couple missing persons/ missing childrens cases you will find parents who shed tears because of the pain and loss and darkness they experience.
Sharon Rocha openly cried for her missing pregnant daughter.
Mark Lunsford nightly cried for his missing little girl.
Steve Grone cried for his 2 missing children.
Ron Cummings cried for Haleigh.
Madeleine McCanns mom cried.
Jennifer Kesses family cried.
There are more family members who cry when a loved one is missing than loved ones who don't cry.
Even LE looks at parents emotions when a loved one disappears.

The only mom of a murdered child I've seen smile was Patsy Ramsey .....IMO that was creepy.
 
Personally, I think it's pretty weird that anyone would want to see proof that someone was experiencing extreme emotional pain. Let's suppose, for a moment, that the family got in front of the cameras completely falling apart - helplessly floundering, falling to their knees, wailing, sniffling, tears drenching the microphone, incoherent, and let's suppose that the children are alive and have access to the news. It's simply not helpful, and every responsible reporter should know that. For the life of me, I simply have no comprehension of the type of performance that people are expecting from the family of kidnapped children. Even innocent families of murdered children smile when in front of the camera ... if only because the good memories are right beside the sad ones.

Speaking in general rather than about this case specificially:

I don't think it is so much a desire to see pain, but rather a desire to see emotional connection between their words and the events surrounding them. People are looking for consistency or the lack. And weird behavior tends to stand out.

Many people, for example, felt that Debby Irwin's early TV interviews were off. They noted a disconnect between her expressed emotions while answering quesions herself (Tears and hysterics), and the way she watched her husband when he was speaking (coldly analytical). Some people felt that something was off, that she was being deceptive about something, and they wondered what it was. They were, as it turns out, correct -- her initial account of that evening was a lie.

In this case I cannot say. I have not watched the videos and have no opinion on them. I've been following this case (mostly without posting) from the beginning, hoping that these two would be found alive.

And I am still hoping today.
 
Personally, I think it's pretty weird that anyone would want to see proof that someone was experiencing extreme emotional pain. Let's suppose, for a moment, that the family got in front of the cameras completely falling apart - helplessly floundering, falling to their knees, wailing, sniffling, tears drenching the microphone, incoherent, and let's suppose that the children are alive and have access to the news. It's simply not helpful, and every responsible reporter should know that. For the life of me, I simply have no comprehension of the type of performance that people are expecting from the family of kidnapped children. Even innocent families of murdered children smile when in front of the camera ... if only because the good memories are right beside the sad ones.

It reminds me a bit of the Azaria Chamberlain case, where the public was out for blood because Lindy Chamberlain was perceived to be emotionless. Very few people seemed able to understand that there are people who cannot cry in public.

I look at Misty's eyes and see worry, fear, grief.

As you say, if the girls are still alive, what message would they get if they saw their families in tears? That their own parents had given up? So long as the families are holding onto hope that the girls are still alive, I think they have every reason to present a strong, optimistic front for the media.
 
Personally, I think it's pretty weird that anyone would want to see proof that someone was experiencing extreme emotional pain. Let's suppose, for a moment, that the family got in front of the cameras completely falling apart - helplessly floundering, falling to their knees, wailing, sniffling, tears drenching the microphone, incoherent, and let's suppose that the children are alive and have access to the news. It's simply not helpful, and every responsible reporter should know that. For the life of me, I simply have no comprehension of the type of performance that people are expecting from the family of kidnapped children. Even innocent families of murdered children smile when in front of the camera ... if only because the good memories are right beside the sad ones.

Ron Cummings was highly criticized because of his display of emotions. Billie Dunn has been highly criticized for her lack of emotions.
Sometimes it seems to me that families of missing children cannot win no matter what they do. If they cry a lot, it's fake. If they don't cry very much, they're said to not care.
I don't know how one could think they can judge a person's guilt or innocence by how many tears they cried, or didn't cry. Susan Smith comes to mind, and boy, did she have a lot of people fooled!
It may not be that anyone enjoys seeing people at their lowest times with a missing child. It may just be that to some people, they need that sign themselves. Something to reassure them that this child is loved and missed by their family. But the truth is, no one can know what is truly in someone's heart and it's possible that all their tears are shed in private, or the times when there is no camera around.
 
I think that is exactly what some people want to see. Fortunately, responsible journalists no longer pander to such tastes.

It struck me the other day what Misty's affect reminds me of. To me, her smiles always contradict her eyes. Her eyes look worried and sad, while her lips smile. I suddenly realised, "well, duh. She has worked retail, where that sort of fake smile is demanded as a condition of employment in many stores and food outlets."

My heart aches for her.

ITA. I can also think of another good reason why it may seem that Misty is not showing much emotion. I personally went through a very traumatic experience in my life and felt that I had to "hold it together" for my family. I guess it's the role of Mom as the emotional thermostat for the family, in a way. As information unfolded that was extremely upsetting, I "held it together" to relay the information to everyone who called to ask me what was going on. I reserved my most intense grieving for night time, after everyone else had gone to sleep. I still HATE the question "What's the prognosis?"
I can tell you from experience, the long term outlook may not be good, but you can still have a good outcome. Or something you can live with anyway.

And...that's all I have to say about that.
 
Ron Cummings was highly criticized because of his display of emotions. Billie Dunn has been highly criticized for her lack of emotions.
Sometimes it seems to me that families of missing children cannot win no matter what they do. If they cry a lot, it's fake. If they don't cry very much, they're said to not care.
I don't know how one could think they can judge a person's guilt or innocence by how many tears they cried, or didn't cry. Susan Smith comes to mind, and boy, did she have a lot of people fooled!
It may not be that anyone enjoys seeing people at their lowest times with a missing child. It may just be that to some people, they need that sign themselves. Something to reassure them that this child is loved and missed by their family. But the truth is, no one can know what is truly in someone's heart and it's possible that all their tears are shed in private, or the times when there is no camera around.

BBM

You are absolutely correct, no one can see what is truly in someone else's heart. Particularly not in a 2 minute interview clip.

That reminds me of something that happened to me. Many years ago, when I was still with my first husband, I had a middle ear infection that moved into the mastoid sinus (located behind each ear). On a holiday weekend, the infection got worse. By the time Monday rolled around, I was barely able to creep around the house. I knew I had to get to the ER.

Well, my then husband told me that we couldn't afford an ambulance and that if I waited until after he spent the day with his family, he'd take me to the ER himself.

Big of him.

I ended up creeping out of the house on my own and driving myself to the ER. Complete with my 107 F fever and almost complete inability to walk. I'd take a step, rest, take another step, rest, etc.

When I finally got to the ER, I was admitted at once. The only question was whether they were going to do surgery within the hour or try to bring my temp down and then do surgery in a couple hours.

I was lying there in bed, just wishing they'd do something to stop the pain. By that time, I really didn't care what they did, so long as the pain would stop. I had to call my sister to sign the consent forms (couldn't reach my husband).

After the surgery, my husband showed up. I was lying there in that hospital bed with a massive case of football head (they put a cast on my head) and barely able to lift a hand. I was alone when he got there and he immediately started snarling at me because I spoiled his day with his family.

As soon as a nurse walked in, he turned it off and was all lovey-dovey, holding my hand, saying sweet things, expressing concern.

I was so used to his about faces by that time that it seemed like a normal way to live. Without witnesses, he was selfish, punitive, nasty, etc. In front of witnesses, he was the most loving husband ever. My friends at the time used to say he was such a perfect guy and I was so used to the way he treated me, I actually agreed with them!

Three months after he got his Ph.D (paid for by yours truly) he left me for his mistress.

When I met the man who became my second husband, I was such a headcase. He was always loving and it didn't matter if there were witnesses or not. I can honestly say that my worst day with my second (and last) husband is better than my best day with my ex.
 
I am so sorry to see that these two sweet girls have not found their way home yet. Still praying for Lyric and Lizzie to be found soon.

Peace be with you all tonite
 
It reminds me a bit of the Azaria Chamberlain case, where the public was out for blood because Lindy Chamberlain was perceived to be emotionless. Very few people seemed able to understand that there are people who cannot cry in public.

I look at Misty's eyes and see worry, fear, grief.

As you say, if the girls are still alive, what message would they get if they saw their families in tears? That their own parents had given up? So long as the families are holding onto hope that the girls are still alive, I think they have every reason to present a strong, optimistic front for the media.

You said something like if the missing persons are alive, what message would they get if they saw their loved ones crying? I imagine the missing person would likely sense immediately how much their families miss them.
Neither smiling nor crying mean the family has given up.
Doesn't mean the family is innocent or guilty.
:banghead: wish the girls were home. :(
 
You said something like if the missing persons are alive, what message would they get if they saw their loved ones crying? I imagine the missing person would likely sense immediately how much their families miss them.
Neither smiling nor crying mean the family has given up.
Doesn't mean the family is innocent or guilty.
:banghead: wish the girls were home. :(

I'd be more concerned what the perp sees.
 
The children were abducted and no one knows where they are. That's a fact.

I wish I could agree but I think that someone knows where they are. People who love and care for them and are searching for them, no. But if no one knows where they are it had to be some completely freak accident.

One thought I had early on (before I found out about the lake being essentially non-swimming) was that maybe Lyric was showing off her new "backflip" skill, hit her head, and Elizabeth went to help her and they both drowned. I'm glad that possbility was ruled out, but I can't think of any other scenario that NO ONE else would know where they are. :(
 
http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...nnocence-abducted-part-1-of-a-series-e6fc40ec

High-profile cases like Johnny Gosch’s and the disappearance of two girls from Black Hawk County this summer increase anxiety in the heartland.

FROM THIS Same Article

When Kids Vanish: Now
The circumstances are especially chilling in light of a report issued last week by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, an organization Noreen Gosch helped establish. Its analysis of more than 7,000 attempted abductions over seven years found that children are especially vulnerable at back-to-school time.
Among the findings from children who successfully escaped would-be abductors was that the suspect in a car tried to lure the child inside 72 percent of the time, and about one-third of the attempts occurred between 2 and 7 p.m., when children were least likely to be supervised and were walking to and from school or school-related activities.


'Iowa Has a Kidnapping Problem'

A West Des Moines police detective overseeing the Gosch case said among the worst fears is human trafficking, which is “happening closer to home than people want to believe.”

“I think it probably is nationwide and worldwide, and likely more prevalent in other countries, where it’s almost part of the culture,” Detective Tom Boyd said. “But people look at it and can’t believe it could happen here.”
Noreen Gosch said the Waukee incident was a wake-up call to parents everywhere that her nightmare could be theirs.

"This is a message and it means something,” she said. “Iowa has a kidnapping problem.”


So, Gosch waded into the dark underworld of human trafficking, where children are shuttled around the globe like cargo and traded to supply the seemingly insatiable appetite of pedophiles.


http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...ed-part-1-of-a-series-e6fc40ec#photo-11202568

RBBM

:cry:
 
17 people who disappeared as children missing from Black Hawk County.

As of August 31, these children were reported missing from Black Hawk County (age listed is current):

Eriwuan Winford, age 8. Reported missing to the Black Hawk County Communication Center (319-291-2515), in Waterloo on August 30, 2012. He was last seen wearing a green uniform shirt and khaki shorts. Weight: 60 lbs, Height: 4'06", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

Kunickshal Robinson, age 15. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on August 23, 2012. She was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt and a gray tank top. Her hair was pulled up into a ponytail. Weight: 145 lbs., Height: 5'03", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Dalton L. Nalley, age 17. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on August 20, 2012. Weight 140 lbs., Height: 5'10", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Blue, Sex: Male.

Amber M. Miller, 16. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on August 2, 2012. She was last seen wearing a shirt and blue jean capris. Weight: 115 lbs., Height: 5'00", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Blue, Sex: Female.

Shakur D Todd-ellis, 14. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on July 28, 2012. He was last seen wearing a red/black hat, a black Aeropostle shirt and black shorts with a white stripe. He has facial hair. Weight: 125 lbs. Height: 5'07", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

Chavon L. Banks, age 16. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on July 14, 2012. He was last seen wearing a red Aeropostale shirt, red/brown plaid shorts and red/black Air Jordan shoes. Weight: 165 lbs., Height: 5'10", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

Elizabeth J. Collins, 9. Reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department (319-232-6682), in Evansdale on July 13, 2012 at the age of 8. She was last seen about 12:05 p.m. riding her bike with her 10-year-old cousin Lyric. Their bikes were found abandoned near Meyers Lake. Weight: 65 lbs., Height: 4'01", Race: White, Hair: Sandy, Eyes: Blue, Sex: Female.

Lyric R. Cook, 10. Reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department (319-232-6682), in Evansdale on July 13, 2012. She was last seen about 12:05 p.m. wearing a lime green shirt with an animal print and flip flops. She has chin-length hair. Lyric has a mole on the back of her neck the size of a dime. Lyric and her 8-year-old cousin Elizabeth were riding bikes. Their bikes were found abandoned near Meyers Lake. Weight: 145 lbs., Height: 4'11", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Blue, Sex: Female.

Montajia M. Mitchell, age 17. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on June 24, 2012. She was last seen wearing a McDonalds uniform. She has a pierced left eyebrow. Weight: 148 lbs., Height: 5'05", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Black, Sex: Female.

Crystal Silva, 14. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on June 15, 2012. She was last seen wearing a green shirt, jean shorts and silver sandals. Weight: 140 lbs., Height: 5'01", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Karina Duran, age 13. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Brenda. Weight: 110 lbs., Height: 5'03", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Brenda A. Duran, 15. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Karina. Weight: 195 lbs., Height: 5'07", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Isaiah Turney, 16. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on June 5, 2012. He was last seen wearing khaki shorts and a black polo shirt. He was carrying a blue/black backpack. Weight: 160 lbs. Height: 5'09", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

Jjuanna Williams, 14. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on May 30, 2012. Weight: 115 lbs., Height: 5'04", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Andrea Gakovic, 18. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on April 19, 2012, at age 17. She was last seen wearing blue jeans and a yellow sweater. She has a tattoo on her upper left arm. Weight: 150 lbs., Height: 5'06", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Anthony T Stafford, 16. Reported missing to the Waterloo Police Department (319-291-4339), in Waterloo on March 18, 2012. Weight: 130 lbs., Height: 5'08", Race: Black, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

Daniel J. Andersen, age 25. Reported missing to the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on January 25, 1992, at age 4. He was last seen wearing blue snowpants and a blue jacket. He wandered from the residence. Daniel may have fell in the west fork of the Cedar River. Weight: 50 lbs., Height: 3'00", Race: White, Hair: Brown, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Male.

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/articles/cedar-falls-and-black-hawk-county-s-missing-kids#photo-11204091

Granted some of these maybe run aways, HOWEVER, that can not be confirmed until after they are found.
 
http://www.ncmec.org/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4747

NCMEC has developed the following 10 back-to-school safety tips
  1. Teach your older children to always TAKE A FRIEND with them when walking or biking, and stay with a group while standing at the bus stop. Make sure they know which bus to ride.
  2. Walk the route to and from school with your children, pointing out landmarks and safe places to go if they’re being followed or need help. Teach your children they should NEVER TAKE SHORTCUTS and always stay in well-lit areas.
  3. Even though there may be more safety in numbers, it is still not safe for younger children to walk to and from school, especially if they must take isolated routes anytime during the day or in darkness. Always provide supervision for your young children to help ensure their safe arrival to and from school.
  4. Teach your children that if anyone bothers them, makes them feel scared or uncomfortable, they should trust their feelings and immediately get away from that person. Teach them it is ok not to be polite and IT IS OK TO SAY NO.
  5. Teach your children that if anyone tries to take them somewhere, they should RESIST by kicking and screaming, trying to run away and DRAWING ATTENTION – and saying “This person is trying to take me away” or “This person is not my father/mother.”
  6. Teach your children NOT TO ACCEPT A RIDE from anyone unless you have said it is ok in that instance. If anyone follows them in a vehicle, they should turn around, go in the other direction, and run to a trusted adult who may help them.
  7. Teach your children that grownups should NOT ASK CHILDREN FOR DIRECTIONS, they should ask other adults.
  8. Teach your children to NEVER ACCEPT MONEY OR GIFTS from anyone unless you have told them it is ok to accept in each instance.
  9. Make sure the school has current and accurate emergency contact information on file for your children and confirm names of those authorized to pick them up.
  10. Always know where your children will be. Teach your children to always CHECK FIRST before changing their plans before or after school. Teach your children to never leave school with anyone unless they CHECK FIRST with you or another trusted adult, even if someone tells them it is an emergency
 
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