IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[Snowbunny]

I'd be willing to say there are more cameras around town that catch these girls on video that we don't know about and LE does.

 

[Reverie]

Could have that been Lyric's purse you saw in the video? Just asking since they found her purse with the cellphone.

Do you mean Elizabeth's purse? It is purple and was found on the shore with the game-playing phone inside.

Does anyone know if was bright purple or dark purple?

 

[Reverie]

Im pretty sure that i read here Lyric had only been with Elizabeth for the past week or so not the entire summer! Because Grandmother was helping Elizabeths mom.

I know Lyric lived with Tammy when mom was away!

Now I am wondering if their spending more time together was related to MCM's new job at Casey's? It would solve the childcare situation.?

 

[LadyPirate]

Now I am wondering if their spending more time together was related to MCM's new job at Casey's? It would solve the childcare situation.?

The grandmother had custody of Lyric since 2007 so Misty didn't have to be concerned with childcare.

Something that caught my attention and I haven't seen it discussed here, so I'll throw this out. HC stated that Elizabeth didn't go very far away and if she did, she called to let her mother know and then she called when she got there. How did she do that if the phone she carried in her purse was only for playing games? What happened to the working phone?

 

[Eileen730]

Now I am wondering if their spending more time together was related to MCM's new job at Casey's? It would solve the childcare situation.?

If i remember correctly MCM recently got out of jail and i thought Lyric was with Tammy while Mom was away i did read where tammy said she had Lyric living with her....

Mom had just started that job at Caseys wasnt it just a few days.
Lyric was also staying with her other grandmother and dad in Waterloo
and she wanted to run away....

Misty had to live with her mom because she couldnt be with hubby
and she had to have a job (probation)...

 

[Eileen730]

We know the grandmother got custody!
But Lyric lived with Tammy at some point.

 

[LivingJuicy]

Sounds like it.

What is your job?

I was a skip tracer in the finance and construction industries, (debt collection) and later worked for government.

Sapphire - skip tracing led me to WS!


I usually can find Anyone!!! Except
All these missing kids! :-(

 

[Elley Mae]

After all of the discussions about paddleboats, confusing timelines, grainy videotape footage, etc., it all still comes down to what Abben said:

“We have their bicycles, and we have a purse. That’s all that we have, and that doesn’t tell me that they’ve been there, just that those items were there,” Abben said. Here's a link: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/se...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

It seems like we don't know anything more now - two girls are missing and all we know is they left their bikes and Elizabeth's purse at the lake.

I, for one, will continue to believe that LE and FBI have much more information than we've been told and that they have an ongoing active investigation that will result in the discovery of Lyric and Elizabeth. JMO

ETA: I was jumping off your post Sunlight, thanks.

bbm, I do believe that Abben is thinking the bikes were transported to the lake by vehicle and not by the girls riding them there. That is what I am thinking too, I don't see enough time for the girls to have ridden almost 2 miles.jmo If the time on the camera can be confirmed, plus or minuses included,(12:11-19)iirc and the time that the bicyclist saw the bikes on the trail (12:20)ish, then it would be a very narrow amount of time. Which leads me to believe that they were taken moments after the video. jmo

 

[hollyblue]

If i remember correctly MCM recently got out of jail and i thought Lyric was with Tammy while Mom was away i did read where tammy said she had Lyric living with her....

Mom had just started that job at Caseys wasnt it just a few days.
Lyric was also staying with her other grandmother and dad in Waterloo
and she wanted to run away....

Misty had to live with her mom because she couldnt be with hubby
and she had to have a job (probation)...

I've been with this case from almost the beginning and I've not read anywhere that Lyric stayed with anyone except Misty's mom......aside she was with HC & DC when Misty was incarcerated. After HC's health problems, Gma got custody. If you can provide a link to someone stating she lived with Tammy or the other GMA I's appreciate it, as Lyric was upset at her father regarding chores, but it was her maternal GMa who hugged and comforted her at her house when Lyric was wanting to run away.

JMO, but I think Gma had been helping HC for quite awhile since her heart problems and not just for a few weeks, but that's just MOO.

 

[FrayedKnot]

My impression is that the family is a close one and that Lyric, even while in Gma's custody, spent time in both of her Aunt's homes.

I do think I remember reading, though, that Lyric actually had her own room at the Collinses. Does anyone else remember reading that?

In any case, it seems as though they all help one another and so Lyric was a part of that dynamic. Especially when HC became so sick.

 

[nursebeeme]

When drivers of vans approached two children in small Story County towns, the children ran off and their parents called law enforcement officers immediately.

Reports of abduction attempts, similar to these local cases, have spiked since two girls disappeared in Evansdale in July. Police are calling it an abduction.

another snip

“The bottom line is, if you as a parent think there is something suspicious going on, call us right away,” Barry said.

That's exactly what an Ames mother did when a woman reportedly asked her children if they knew the owner of the black and white dog she had with her.

The report lead to a Facebook post on Aug. 20 from someone who heard the story:

"Ames Friends~ WARNING!!!! Today two boys were approached as they were walking to ACE HARDWARE. They were asked to look at a dog that a male and female found. They are driving a red or maroon van. Thank God they knew what to do...they are safe. Mom was watching from her yard. They have not found the van or the sicko's that tried to get the boys in their van. PLEASE~ BE VERY CAREFUL, KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN.. IF ANYTHING LOOKS STRANGE, CALL IT IN!!"

That post was shared 52 times.

http://ames.patch.com/articles/attempted-abduction-reports-jump-after-evansdale-girls-go-missing

 

[Elley Mae]

But the tracker dogs found their scent in the woods and by the lake so I don't really think this is the case. Just my thoughts here.

I didn't get a chance to see/read what breed of dog picked up their scent. I have watched bloodhounds on (tv) and have wondered if the dog actually picked up their scent from the bikes and the purse. I good bloodhound can pick up your scent in the grass on the side of the highway that you drove down an hour earlier. I wonder did the dog track them there or was the dog given an article of clothing. idk

 

[hollyblue]

Just have to say, I feel so helpless being so far away. I do well when in area and can feel out the people and location. This distance stuff is so frustrating. Just wish I was closer...I want to help find those girls and the person(s) responsible and put them where they belong...

Study hard Thespyma. I'd love to be younger and enter that field. What's your take? Do you think the drug connection is the basis, any of the family or random perp? Do you think the possiblity exists that the girls are still alive? All speculation, of course. TIA

 

[TxLady2]

People are predictable, a lot of the time. This is why we can't dismiss any resource, completely.

I started looking into it when I saw the clip of Patsy Ramsey saying "we loved that child".

I remember the first time I saw that, the hair stood up on the back of my neck and I had no idea why, as I didn't actually know too much about the case. I started looking into why I got the gut feeling I did when I head her say that.

Statement analysis is like the study of body language...one gesture or phrase on its own means nothing, but measure it all together and it cannot be disregarded entirely, as it is essentially the analysis of human communication. It is statistically based, therefore rooted in cold hard numbers.

Some of the premises I agree are far fetched, and I would disregard. Others, though, like the distancing language PR used, is the sort of thing that experienced LE most definitely take note of. You will often hear that investigators get a "gut" feeling or something didn't "feel right"...they are subconsciously picking up on a word, an unnatural response, an unusual effect, which leads them to a suspect.

As for profiling (SA is part of this greater science) one profiler even said that the suspect would work in/for/near law enforcement, drive a certain vehicle, be a certain age, and speak with a STUTTER...even though there were no witnesses.

How on earth?

But it was correct...BTK, IIRC. He was right under their noses the entire time. The profile was so precise it was largely disregarded at the time.

Much has been made of that statement... "we love that child." Patsy Ramsey was from Georgia. People in the South use similar phrases all the time, and we don't always refer to a child by his or her name. It is not distancing, it's more of an affectionate term actually. I realize it sounds different to the rest of the world but it is as normal and natural to us as the sun coming up in the east. Patsy was just speaking about her child like any other Southern lady would.

 

[Gracelin]

Hi Everyone,
Take a minute to vote in the poll
What happened to Lyric & Elizabeth

What do you think happened to Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook Morrissey? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[CN2Souls]

Does Black Hawk County have a GIS map?

Also can anyone tell me if they used the Black Hawk County Alert system in this case, and if so when did they do that...?

https://ww2.everbridge.net/citizen/EverbridgeGateway.action?body=home&gis_alias_id=1340761

TYA

 

[TxLady2]

Sadly I disagree. There are cases I can think of that were cold 2 months after the crime happened.....and are still cold years later. :moo:

<modsnip> I don't think LE in this case have stopped investigating, so it's not cold to them, and I would bet that it's not cold to the people in that community. As long as they're still working on the case, it's still active.
Maybe the media isn't reporting on it, maybe these threads here have slowed down because some get tired of talking about the same things over and over, but that doesn't mean LE has put the files in a box or the lower drawer of the file cabinet and forgot about it. I would bet that they are still checking leads and tips and trying to find the girls. Being unsolved does not equal a cold case as long as there is still an investigation going on.

 

[otto]

I used to work as an investigator and my gut is screaming at me on this one...it's so hard to put into words what instinct is if someone else doesn't share it.

It's like a key, turning a lock. Everything just falls into place.

You just KNOW. Or at least, think you do. In my case, I had a 99% hit rate...basically, I could tell when people were lying, even over the phone.

Of course investigations can be steered in entirely the wrong direction this way, too, just look at Riley Fox.

I'm thankful that investigators and prosecutors do not use instinct, or intuition, to solve crimes. The use of facts and evidence is not only more reliable, but helps prevent the pitfalls of tunnel vision that are often associated with instinct, intuition, or feelings.

 

[Gracelin]

Does Black Hawk County have a GIS map?

Also can anyone tell me if they used the Black Hawk County Alert system in this case, and if so when did they do that...?

https://ww2.everbridge.net/citizen/EverbridgeGateway.action?body=home&gis_alias_id=1340761

TYA

I don't think they used this tool. Then again I am not local.
The news would have mentioned them using this system.moo

 

[Sunlight]

Can't camera-video specialist digitalize the film for clarity?

I believe they can...photoshop can even enhance using "sharpen" and "sharpen more". Surely, LE has access to advanced technology...which leads me to consider whether the video is a "snare" to some degree...depends who is looking at it...that is why I say to watch what stories morph to fit the fleeting timestamp changes. MOO