IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #2

[CN2Souls]

Can One of you wonderful Map People please through a Map up for me...?

 

[Foxymona]

I don't think anyone is saying the mother had something to do with it or are critiquing her. Her mannerisms are not what I would expect. Does it mean she had anything to do with it? Nope.
But if she was- FOR ARGUMENT SAKE AND HYPOTHETICAL- acting this way because she is on meds or another reason- it could give a perspective on home life and discussion on if the girls ran away- I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE CASE.
I'm just trying to indicate that the behaviour of people should be allowed to respectfully comment on if it is particularly unusual...
Just my opinion.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Respectfully,

Statistically, a missing child is only rarely abducted by a stranger. It is most often a member of their own family or a close family friend. It is therefore appropriate to discuss everyone in my opinion.

I really dont believe that. Daily it seems we read or hear about strangers trying to abduct children and trying to lure them into their vehicle. Whether they are all successful or not doesnt matter for some of them are and it also doesnt mean they arent trying to abduct children.

There has not been one bit of information put forth by LE that either family is involved in this case.

imo

 

[nikkiw319]

I agree. I am shocked this lake is not used more for swimming, that picture makes it look quiet nice.

It makes it look nice but it's dirty and youd wade through a lot of seaweed business and mud to get anywhere worth swimming. I presume the bacteria levels are too high for swimming. We had lots of flooding years back and most lakes havent been the same since. The only legit swimming beach for the public is at George wyth state park near Waterloo/cedar falls and that beach just reopened for use this summer after using some FEMA flood recovery funds to make it swimming sad again.

Ted Gamerbinger says he had to swerve past the bikes at 12.20.

The girls were last seen by grandma riding down her street at 12.15.

That just doesn't add up.

Either Mr Gamerbinger has his times wrong, or grandma does...or one of the two knows more than they are saying.

I'm leaning toward TG. At least he would have had a time stamp on that phone call.

Didn't a local poster say earlier that no one swims in this lake?

See above. I'm sure there have been people to swim in it but it is posted no swimming and I've never personally observed someone swimming in it in my 31 years here.

Thank you for all the local insight we are getting here. It is much appreciated.

Those who are local - what is your gut telling you?

TIA

Ive always felt they were taken because where their bikes were found and the lack of shoes leads me to believe they wernt going into the water. They're pretty old for wandering off and getting lost in such a heavily populated residential area. I wasn't sure if they were taken from where the bikes were or if the bikes were planted there but after having several scenerio conversations with my husband, I believe they were taken from where the bikes were found. I believe someone was parked on arbutus and lying in wait on that trail. We've discussed how realistically someone could convince two kids to go with them. Lying about an injured parent, acting upset that grandma sans looking for them and to get in the car, showing a weapon, threatening harm, getting physical control of one of them, etc. it could have looked like nothing more than a mom or dad walking with their two kids.

It may have been someone they know, and even though I know the likeliness of stranger abduction versus known abductor, I think this may have been a stranger. A crime of opportunity. Someone lying in wait who could see the girls headed for the secluded area and could see that no one else was coming from either side. I suspect if it was someone they knew, they would have just convinced them to get in the car from the road or the entrance to the park, there wouldn't be a need to lay in wait.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's why I was wondering about the lake floor. I've been in lakes that start out muddy, or sandy, but wind up being a kind of slimy, clay-like mud. (This is in East Texas). I had a tennis shoe get stuck in such a lake bottom once, it was stuck so firmly that I had to pull my foot out and leave the shoe behind.

SBM

Most of those borrow ponds were lined with clay so that they would hold water rather than let it run away through cracks in the rocks. I don't know if Meyer's Lake was made that way but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be.

I could see one flip-flop getting stuck in the mud but not two. It's possible but doesn't seem likely to me.

 

[hollye]

Can One of you wonderful Map People please through a Map up for me...?

The map is in my siggy...


Hollye

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hollyblue]

Can One of you wonderful Map People please through a Map up for me...?

This map from Bing is easier to see, but there is a detailed, customized google map link in the first post of this thread that was done by another poster. HTH

http://binged.it/MgxfJH

 

[liltexans]

Family members say they're cooperating with the investigation.

"I did a polygraph this morning," Cook-Morrissey said. "Dan has yet to do his. Do his later. Several of our other family members did theirs yesterday. Family members, everybody is willing to do a polygraph test. We just want our girls home, you know. We're cooperating to the fullest."

http://www.kivitv.com/news/topfive/162716226.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

Respectfully,

Statistically, a missing child is only rarely abducted by a stranger. It is most often a member of their own family or a close family friend. It is therefore appropriate to discuss everyone in my opinion.

The person under discussion as being "too smiley," etc, is the person with the easiest alibi to validate.

She works at a Caseys, which is a chain of convenience stores all over Iowa. They all have cameras pointed at the registers and other areas of the store. I am absolutely certain that LE has already checked the cameras to verify she was at work when she said she was.

The hours she was at work absolutely preclude her from being the perpetrator.

 

[necco]

Reference humor as a coping skill, police and reporters use it too....they have to. Imagine if police arrived at a horrific scene and started screaming and crying themselves....they wanted to when they first started as officers, but they had to hold it in. That is why when they are all back at the police department, they use humor sometimes to release their feelings. It has NOTHING to do with bad character. Moo

I completely agree. Gallows humor is NOT a show of bad character. It is a coping mechanism used when faced with things that are almost incomprehensible and yet a person needs to keep on keeping on. There are things to be done and sometimes the brain uses humor as a barrier. There's a reason the expression "You either have to laugh or cry" exists. While I hesitate to quote a band in a missing persons thread, BNL sings "I'm the kinda guy who laughs at a funeral."

There is also a phenomenon called "inappropriate affect" when a person's reactions are seemingly contradictory to the situation at hand.

These do not necessarily mean you have "bad character" or are mentally ill, it just means that different people's brains and bodies react in different ways to stress.

 

[liltexans]

FRESH PICTURES The hunt for Lyric and Elizabeth continues; Meyers Lake being drained

The lake won’t be totally dry when the water quits draining. There will be areas a few feet deep in the middle.
“They (city officials) said it would be far enough (down) that if there’s someone in there, we would be able to see them,” Abben said.
Police taped off the area of the nature trail where the bikes were found, which is right across the gate allowing access to the drainage outlet. A police officer will monitor the progress continually until the lake is drained.
The search for Lyric and Elizabeth was scaled back considerably on Monday, but authorities and family members said that doesn’t mean their resolve to find the youngsters has diminished.
On Monday, law enforcement officers searched homes and business, wooded areas in town and stopped motorists at multiple street corners — handing out flyers, asking questions, taking names and license plate numbers and even looking in trunks — to find the girls or glean any information about their whereabouts. Nothing was discovered.

Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/fr...d32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz20tL2ixhP

 

[liltexans]

Hundreds gather at vigil for missing girls

The evening alternated between songs about God’s love, care and faithfulness and Scripture reading and prayer.

Many petitioners lifted tear-streamed faces and hands in fervent praise. Later, the crowd knelt together in silence.

At one point, Elizabeth’s mother, Heather Collins, took the stage to read Bible verses. Her words brought the gathering to its feet, and hugs and more intimate prayers were shared by people in nearby seats.

“Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. ... Great is your faithfulness,” a portion of Lamentations 3:22-23.

Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/hu...00c-11e1-8d05-001a4bcf887a.html#ixzz20tMnzWdl

 

[Chris_Texas]

I really dont believe that. Daily it seems we read or hear about strangers trying to abduct children and trying to lure them into their vehicle. Whether they are all successful or not doesnt matter for some of them are and it also doesnt mean they arent trying to abduct children.

Respectfully, and I mean this sincerely, your belief is irrelevant. It is simply a statistical fact that the vast majority of child crimes (of all types) are perpetrated by someone known to the child -- most often that child's family. These cases outnumber stranger abductions by a thousand to one. Despite the media focus, stranger abductions are extraordinarily rare. We have about fifty million children in America, and on average somewhere less than one hundred will suffer this horror anually.

By comparisson, every five HOURS a child in America dies of abuse or neglect. They don't usually make the news...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15288865

There has not been one bit of information put forth by LE that either family is involved in this case.

imo

And I believe that they are likely correct in this case. This case is somewhat unique in that there are two children missing. I am sure they have reviewed the statistics for cases of this type. None the less, even this does not proclude family / friend involvement.

 

[hollyblue]

Has the island in the lake been searched? TIA

 

[Pensfan]

FBI search dogs looking for the girls.

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-dogs-joining-search-iowa-cousins-8-10-070314862.html

 

[sweetpea33]

Living in the area I have to wonder about construction workers. the are of I-380, just a short distance from where the bikes were found has benn under heavy construction for many, many weeks...have all the construction workers been checked out thoroughly??? I heard many were staying/living in Evansdale.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Respectfully, and I mean this sincerely, your belief is irrelevant. It is simply a statistical fact that the vast majority of child crimes (of all types) are perpetrated by someone known to the child -- most often that child's family. These cases outnumber stranger abductions by a thousand to one. Despite the media focus, stranger abductions are extraordinarily rare. We have about fifty million children in America, and on average somewhere less than one hundred will suffer this horror anually.

By comparisson, every five HOURS a child in America dies of abuse or neglect. They don't usually make the news...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15288865



And I believe that they are likely correct in this case. This case is somewhat unique in that there are two children missing. I am sure they have reviewed the statistics for cases of this type. None the less, even this does not proclude family / friend involvement.

And I mean this respectfullly but until we know what happened to these two children and who took them the statistics are totally irrelevant at this time.

There were two children taken in the Greone case done by Joesph Duncan. A boy and girl who were both tortured and raped and Dylan was murdered six weeks after being kidnapped.

IMO

 

[liltexans]

Missing Iowa Cousins: Cops Begin Draining Lake in Search for Girls

Heather Collins said the family has strict rules with Elizabeth about how far she is allowed to go and how often she has to check in.

"If she goes more than one block, she tells us and she calls us when she gets there and she calls us when she comes home," Collins said. "This is not like her normal thing."

Heather Collins reported the girls missing about three hours after they left to ride their bikes.

"I just had a gut feeling my daughter would not leave that long," Heather Collins said. "She knows she'd be in trouble. ... That's not like her."

snip

Heather Collins said that Elizabeth's cat that sleeps with her every night has been waiting on Elizabeth's bed ever since she disappeared.

"The cat's depressed and everybody else is too," she said. Collins said that her three other children, who are 4, 6, 12, miss their sister and have been "very upset."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...ng-lake-search/story?id=16784357#.UAV-GWHa1PM

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't think anyone is saying the mother had something to do with it or are critiquing her. Her mannerisms are not what I would expect. Does it mean she had anything to do with it? Nope.
But if she was- FOR ARGUMENT SAKE AND HYPOTHETICAL- acting this way because she is on meds or another reason- it could give a perspective on home life and discussion on if the girls ran away- I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE CASE.
I'm just trying to indicate that the behaviour of people should be allowed to respectfully comment on if it is particularly unusual...
Just my opinion.

I totally agree that we should be able to comment on usual behavior especially in cases where that behavior might give us insight into why a person is missing. I've done that time and time again here on WS and elsewhere.

But in this case, with no evidence at all that the girls ran away or were injured by a family member, it just seems a little snarky to me to keep pointing out how inappropriate Misty's behavior is.

Again, JMO.

 

[palaminodee]

http://www.myabc5.com/story/19031602/search-to-resume-for-missing-iowa-girls-8-and-10

"Cook-Morrissey said her daughter might have tried to swim at the lake, despite a swimming ban. She said the family swims at another nearby lake regularly, and described Lyric as a good swimmer."

The lake drains into the Cedar River, according to this story. I wonder if the bodies ended up there via the drain.

LE said there are grates on the drains...