IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[GrainneDhu]

Excellent maps, Otto!! I know I said this before, but the on-ramps onto Interstate 380 were closed at River Forest at that time, so they could not have used the purple route.

I was driving down River Forest Road the other day, and I was thinking to myself.... the girls were last on video heading down Brovan towards River Forest Road. Assuming they went South on River Forest Road, why not take that road all the way to the Lake? Then I started to look, and I noticed the sidewalk on the East side of the road (heading South from Lafayette) ends at Central Ave! The girls would have had to turned left there and gone East on Central, or crossed River Forest to the opposite side of the street!! I think they went down Central, maybe went South on Ayers (there is another park there) and then went down Elmer Drive. If they went down River Forest to Central Ave, then down Central, they would not have hit any intersections that they would not have had the right-of-way (except turning left on Central), but meaning no stopping!

BBM

I'm trying to remember which roads the police set up roadblocks on on July 20 - I suspect those roads and intersections are LE's suspected exit routes. :twocents::moo:

I can't remember who posted it but someone posted that the girls may only have known one route to the lake and that one not necessarily the fastest or most direct. If Elizabeth had gone to the lake previously with her friends, they may have taken a wandering route just because that was the only route they knew.

We know they didn't have a working smartphone with them, so they would not have been able to get online directions, even assuming they thought of that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

IF there was a bike accident and IF lkuminol was sprayed on an area, would luminol show up at night? I hope this makes sense.

Easy enough to do; erect a tent or canopy over the area to block ambient light, then wait until night to check.

On a bicycle path, it may not be surprising to find some blood because people do fall off bicycles. If they found trace evidence of blood, I think they'd have to hope to get enough DNA from it to know that it was from one of the girls.

 

[SapphireSteel]

IF there was a bike accident and IF lkuminol was sprayed on an area, would luminol show up at night? I hope this makes sense.

Short answer - Yes.

Long answer - luminol works by reacting with blood then glowing, so it must be dark to do the test. It will pick up microscopic bits of blood that can sit around for years. It will also pick up blood that has been "cleaned up" because it's a messy substance and almost impossible to completely remove from a scene.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
If the girls' bodies are in the woods, they are more likely to be found by a deer hunter, since deer are browsers and prefer eating twigs and stuff. Pheasant (also divided into many different seasons) are more likely to be found in open fields and in light cover.

Thanks GrainneDhu. Had hunting season started yet (any of the various types) when the girls went missing? I thought it hadn't? I'm just confused by Cindersoot's reference to the perp being an "avid hunter" if hunting season hadn't started. I don't recall seeing or hearing anything that would tie their disappearance to anything related to hunting.

I definitely agree with you that a hunter might be likely to find them if they are out in the woods somewhere. I hope the local hunters are well aware of the girls and keeping their eyes peeled.

 

[cindersoot]

I think it's sad how most of us are talking about the girls bodies being recovered instead of the other way around. Im not being snarky, cause I think the same thing.

 

[Adair88]

I know that I was headed towards Waterloo area that day and there were heavy moving showers. It was rainy I remember at 3pm because I had an appointment and got wet going to my car.

Thank you Cinder! I thought I was going crazy as the only person who remembered the rain! And at 3pm too! I was leaving work at that time, and was rained on from my work to Target, right at 3pm! :rocker:

 

[Adair88]

I can't remember who posted it but someone posted that the girls may only have known one route to the lake and that one not necessarily the fastest or most direct. If Elizabeth had gone to the lake previously with her friends, they may have taken a wandering route just because that was the only route they knew.

We know they didn't have a working smartphone with them, so they would not have been able to get online directions, even assuming they thought of that.

Yes, that makes tons of sense, and I completely agree! Especially now that the timeline doesn't seem to be as tight as we were all trying to work with originally!:moo:

 

[superbee]

They appear to be on private land, They are along roads.. but very desolate roads for the most part. I saw a couple that I posted maps to that were along what seemed to be busier roads, but it appears most are along gravel or county roads.

Peebles, a scene has come across my mind a few times, of a gravel road, with a big field of sunflowers on a slight slope on the left and some sort of crossroads close by. I am sure this fits almost every farm in Iowa, but you may be on to something here. Some of us have suspected Luric and Elizabeth being held in town, or close to town, at least for a time after they disappeared, but now knowing there are these desolate buildings scattered around the landscape shows there are suspicious places out in the country, besides sheds and barns.

Have you approached any of these buildings, Peebles? Wondering if they have been searched, are there any kind of recent markings on a wall or door that might show they were searched since the girls disappeared?

 

[cindersoot]

I sure hope LE checked out rso Lavernz's other property on Indian creek rd.

 

[Adair88]

http://www.woi-tv.com/story/19540941/with-few-new-leads-vigil-spotlights-missing-cousins

snipped and bolded for discussion:

Also, if someone said they were going to Evansdale that weekend but then later said plans changed and they didn't go or someone's behavior has changed.

Just thinking out loud here: If I remember correctly, there have been discussions about "uniformed" people...or people who wouldn't appear to be a threat. And wasn't there another case where some sort of "umpire" was involved in an abduction...like a little league umpire? Or maybe I made that up, but I thought someone had mentioned something about that on here.

Anyway, we know that Lizzie was at a game the night before they went missing. Was there maybe a tournament going on at the ball diamonds that were close to the campground? One that would have lasted through Saturday?

Or that due to heat it may have been cancelled? I know umpires are brought in from surrounding towns for games (in our town anyway). I wonder if maybe this person had every reason to be around town, wouldn't look suspicious, or maybe is someone who regularly umpires games?

I know the games probably weren't being held at the time of the abduction as most parents would be working etc, but I'm wondering if this person could have driven into the area to "check out the diamonds"?

And then maybe the games didn't take place due to heat, or were cancelled for some reason? This would explain the plan to go to Evansdale, but then plans changed.

Just trying another avenue...

I know there was not a tournament that weekend on the ball diamonds. I saw searchers in the fields behind the diamonds when I was returning to the camper from my hair appointment, around 11am. Most of the town was in shock on July 14. It seemed eerie and as if time stood still that weekend.

Slightly OT, but my family was gone from the campground from about 11:15am to about 3:30pm, and it is my understanding it was around that time that Deerwood Campground, and the areas around there, were searched for the girls. I did not personally see anything being searched INSIDE the campground that day, but it was reported in the news the campground was searched on July 14. :twocents:

 

[peeples]

Peebles, a scene has come across my mind a few times, of a gravel road, with a big field of sunflowers on a slight slope on the left and some sort of crossroads close by. I am sure this fits almost every farm in Iowa, but you may be on to something here. Some of us have suspected Luric and Elizabeth being held in town, or close to town, at least for a time after they disappeared, but now knowing there are these desolate buildings scattered around the landscape shows there are suspicious places out in the country, besides sheds and barns.

Have you approached any of these buildings, Peebles? Wondering if they have been searched, are there any kind of recent markings on a wall or door that might show they were searched since the girls disappeared?

The one i saw is on Hwy 3 up kinda by Allison, Iowa.

I saw no marks looking as though it had been searched recently, in fact although for the like new sign that said Tyson on the front, it looked like it hasn't been used in 10 yrs. Windows had tons of cob web across them, layers of dirt on the doors and door jams. The wood floor had REALLY old hay on it, the weirdest thing i noticed was NO BUGS not that stood out to me anyway.. which means no recent pig poo, flies LOVE pig poo
I will take pics Friday and post them for everyone to see

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks GrainneDhu. Had hunting season started yet (any of the various types) when the girls went missing? I thought it hadn't? I'm just confused by Cindersoot's reference to the perp being an "avid hunter" if hunting season hadn't started. I don't recall seeing or hearing anything that would tie their disappearance to anything related to hunting.

I definitely agree with you that a hunter might be likely to find them if they are out in the woods somewhere. I hope the local hunters are well aware of the girls and keeping their eyes peeled.

Youth deer season was first this year and it started 15 September. One of the pheasant seasons starts in the middle of October.

I think it is possible the perp was a hunter in that whoever he was may have left the girls' bodies in some remote location. That would speak to someone who knew of a remote location and was also strong enough to get there (I know of remote locations but am no longer strong enough to get myself to any of them).

If Cindersoot meant something else, then I'm not sure what she meant.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think it's sad how most of us are talking about the girls bodies being recovered instead of the other way around. Im not being snarky, cause I think the same thing.

It is sad but it reflects what I think is most likely.

It doesn't stop me from asking my husband if he saw any girls who might be Elizabeth or Lyric when he comes home after a trip to town.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Peebles, a scene has come across my mind a few times, of a gravel road, with a big field of sunflowers on a slight slope on the left and some sort of crossroads close by. I am sure this fits almost every farm in Iowa, but you may be on to something here. Some of us have suspected Luric and Elizabeth being held in town, or close to town, at least for a time after they disappeared, but now knowing there are these desolate buildings scattered around the landscape shows there are suspicious places out in the country, besides sheds and barns.

Have you approached any of these buildings, Peebles? Wondering if they have been searched, are there any kind of recent markings on a wall or door that might show they were searched since the girls disappeared?

I didn't think anyone in Iowa grew sunflowers as a crop (which is what I thought you were describing) but poking around on google reveals there are two and neither of them close to Waterloo.

 

[Adair88]

Again I'm not a local and I hope some of them will chime in soon, but I found the posts I was looking for. Here's my original:

IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19 (where I was wondering what was up with that... ahem... "black truck.")

Considering's reply about it being an old army tank for kids to play on. IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19


Sunlight's reply also indicating it's an old tank for kids to play on: IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19


Also thanks to Sunlight, more about the tank: IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19


At the risk of embarassing myself again :blush: there are a few other related posts including me realizing I mistook a military tank for a truck. In my defense from distant Google map images it mostly just looks like a large dark colored vehicle.

An aside, it was kind of cool to find out it's a tank. Near where I live it seems pretty unlikely they'd have something like that for kids to explore and play around on.

Regarding the tank, I have been up close and personal with it once or twice a few years ago. It is metal and hollowed out, with a small opening on the underside for children to climb up into. I heard a rumor it was searched immediately that day, just in case the girls had gone up into it and had gotten stuck. :blushing: I believe children can not only climb into it, but they can also stick their head up and out the top. Not sure, it's been a few years since I've been to the park there.:waitasec:

 

[katydid23]

I think it's sad how most of us are talking about the girls bodies being recovered instead of the other way around. Im not being snarky, cause I think the same thing.

I keep trying to think of scenarios where the girls could still be alive and well, and sadly, very few realistic scenarios come to mind.

If someone wanted a child to raise, they would choose a toddler or younger. If they wanted someone for the sex trafficking underground, I think they would choose older girls that were already runaways.

If someone wanted revenge upon the family, I don't think they would keep the girls safe and cared for. At least not for this long. At first, I wondered if they had been taken and the drug informants were told to follow instructions and the girls would be released. But that was a long time ago. I lost hope that was the case here.

I really hope I am wrong though. Such sweet young girls should be at school
learning their math and social studies and learning double dutch rope.

 

[Sunlight]

@Adair88. Can you remember what those guys that dismantled the bikes looked like? Do you know if they had light hair, dark hair, grey hair, glasses, mustaches, beards, skinny, not skinny? Perhaps you didn't see them...I seem to remember your DH may have seen them. I think you may have seen something important that night, and I know you already spoke with LE. Just so curious to see if anyone can start to put faces to places so to speak.

 

[Adair88]

There have been 17 or 18 kids that have gone missing in Iowa in this area since April of this year and no one knows what happened to them. I consider that to be a lot of kids for a small community to just disappear without a trace. I know they consider several of them to be runaways but are they? I believe they just found a couple of them when they busted the human trafficking case in Chicago. I have no doubt whatsoever that LE is all over that but my little brain says something is wrong with this picture. I live in SD and in a bigger city than WaterLou Iowa, but we don't have any kids unaccounted for that I don't know about. Thank God they caught the last idiot that tried to abduct some school kids here which was recent. That sicko is in jail. I know that kids disappear all over the country, but 17-18 kids in one area in that short of time frame is a bit much to swallow.

I know 100% that the only children from that article who were considered abducted were Lyric and Elizabeth. The other children were only reported missing, which means something completely different from being abducted. The others were all older and were probably missing on their own terms.

Yes, this area is still in shock. Yes, we are paranoid. But no, there is not a sudden rash of abducted/missing children in the area!

 

[Ollipop]

Excellent maps, Otto!! I know I said this before, but the on-ramps onto Interstate 380 were closed at River Forest at that time, so they could not have used the purple route.
...

SBM...Actually, the ramps on and off the eastbound lanes were closed, but as far as I can remember, the westbound ramps never closed. I use them daily.

That was me, Tucarra! I agree. I think LE thinks there were two sets of bikes, based on the questions asked of us by LE because we were camping in the area that night. LE asked if we had brought any bikes with us in the campground, and if we had any canoes, kayaks, or paddleboats with us. The answer was no! But, we told LE about the two men who returned to the campground around midnight that night, tearing apart bikes. We thought it was strange and they were making a lot of noise, but didn't know all the details of this case at the time, either. :what:

I'm not going to go into the other TG details again, because I guess it's just a rumor. But I think the bikes he saw were the spider's web, so to speak. The perp was waiting for the right person or people to come along and get off their bikes... perhaps to investigate or help an injured person? :moo:

This info and artzy's info, are very intriguing. Thank you both so much!!

Regarding the tank, I have been up close and personal with it once or twice a few years ago. It is metal and hollowed out, with a small opening on the underside for children to climb up into. I heard a rumor it was searched immediately that day, just in case the girls had gone up into it and had gotten stuck. :blushing: I believe children can not only climb into it, but they can also stick their head up and out the top. Not sure, it's been a few years since I've been to the park there.:waitasec:

Children can still climb up under it somewhat, but you can no longer stick your head out the top - at least not that I've ever known. My kids don't even like to go under there at all - dark, creepy, smelly, even in daytime, lol. Who knows what has gone on in there over the years.

Thank you ALL so much! I can't tell you how important it is as a local parent to know that people are still talking about this outside of this small community. The arrest in the Evelyn Miller case renews my faith in LE somewhat, but also reminds me that there are some seriously ill-minded people walking among us and it is easy to hide that fact in a state like Iowa (or anywhere, I suppose).

As to the exit routes, etc: remember, there are a couple fairly busy truck stops fairly close to the lake. Thinking of the Walsh case, and what that father endured in his efforts to locate his son makes me shudder. Its hard to grasp just how "out there" you can get in a short time in Iowa, but I'm choosing to maintain hope that these girls are alive somewhere, wondering if we're all still looking. The likelihood is slim, I realize, but the alternative is not palatable for me tonight.

Thank you again, WS.

 

[Marilynilpa]

:seeya: Hi, Ollipop, good to "see" you again. Thanks for your comments, it's always good to hear your take on things.