IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[georger]

I don't think a hunter would put a body in an area that would be visited by hunters or other people. My guess is that just as others have said, this person thought the area was isolated. A hunter would know that this area would ultimately be walked through once deer season started.

Look on the map where the bodies were found - not far from the water at
a location where many people say they have fished FOR YEARS! Either the
perp is an idiot or he knew the bodies would be found - maybe wanted
the found.

I would look for the worst enemy this family has or ever had - if not that
profile then some pedophile who haunts wild areas, lakes, parks,fishing
areas ... has a camper? Somebody who once identified will stand out -

 

[georger]

A $50,000 reward had been offered for information that led to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible for the girls' disappearance.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-io...collins-bodies/story?id=17888330#.UMLNy4ZqD7M

Its $150,000 - announced on KWWL/KCRG/KGAB etc several times last few days -

 

[4Jacy]

For a long while I believed these girls would be found alive and well. This just make me want to cry, God bless them, I pray they didn't suffer.

 

[pdxmama]

For those of you that believe the girls were killed immediately after or close to the time of abduction and the dumped right away, what are the theories about their bodies being so well preserved? I have no idea what to believe but I just can't figure out how they could be so well-preserved and intact after 5 months in the wilderness. Is there some environmental or biological reason that this could have occurred without any additional "refrigeration"?

 

[cluciano63]

For those of you that believe the girls were killed immediately after or close to the time of abduction and the dumped right away, what are the theories about their bodies being so well preserved? I have no idea what to believe but I just can't figure out how they could be so well-preserved and intact after 5 months in the wilderness. Is there some environmental or biological reason that this could have occurred without any additional "refrigeration"?

I have not seen confirmation that they were so well-preserved as yet; if there something to this effect? I have seen various statements about being "instantly recognizable" but that can mean a number of things, IMO.

 

[georger]

Hello, I have been following this case as I moved from Waterloo about 5 months ago to West Des Moines. I have been following these forums about these missing girls and I have decided to create an account to share my thoughts.

Has anyone followed up at all about the creepy craigslist posting about the bridge? That seems like a smoking gun almost in regards to this case. Also, there is some very curious happenings on the Waterloo, Rants and Raves on Craigslist as well, seems as someone keeps posting poems and seems very troubled psychologically. This could also provide a large clue.

I feel that the perp or perps who has done this quite possibly is looking for their chance at "fame" and wants to be caught, but does not want to make it too obvious. I believe there is something more to the Craigslist activity, thoughts?

Refer this to LE ...

 

[pdxmama]

I have not seen confirmation that they were so well-preserved as yet; if there something to this effect? I have seen various statements about being "instantly recognizable" but that can mean a number of things, IMO.

You could be right. That quote about making an "eyeball ID" and then LE saying they didn't look like they had been out in the elements for 4 or 5 months and that they didn't need the parents to make an ID is what I'm thinking of. I guess we just don't have enough info yet.

 

[georger]

It was far from a sure thing, though. That quote from someone about how those two hunters would have missed the bodies if they'd walked five feet to the left or right makes it pretty clear that they weren't easily visible.

The weather is closing in, there's snow predicted for Saturday (first day of season two for shotguns). If those two hunters hadn't found the bodies Wednesday, I'm not sure they would have been found.

Of course, this is Iowa, so who knows? We may be doomed to have a mud winter this year. The only thing worse than snow and more snow is a mud winter.

I'm hoping if someone strongly urged his hunting friends to go hunting at 7 Bridges, those friends will remember that and report it to LE.

I suppose that if the bodies hadn't been discovered and the perp wanted them to be found, he could have figured out some way to anonymously tip off LE. Since that didn't happen, though, there isn't much point in speculating on it.

I have absolutely no basis for the following, it's just a feeling: I think it was immaterial to the perp whether the bodies were found or not. I think he placed them, got out of there without being spotted and that's all he cared about. By that time, all he wanted was to get away safely.

Much will depend on the Time of Death(s) - as yet no details released to the public ... not even to HLN Talking Heads ! And means of death if that can be determined.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hold on. Misty and Dan are not just addicts. They have both been convicted for manufacturing and selling meth! They are not just drug users -- they are drug producers, and Dan is a drug dealer! The people they associated with most certainly put their children in harm's way!

Having a drug addiction is more money than most people can afford. People don't set out to become addicted, it happens largely by accident; part of the problem is that far from everyone who tries a drug becomes addicted to it, so there's always examples of social users around to help people believe that they too will be a social user.

I'm not saying that they did the right thing but I honestly believe that addiction is something that happens to a person without their intentional consent and once it does, it is a horrendous thing. This article says it all a lot better than I can:

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/5605/me--my-monkey

I think that the perpetrator is the one who is completely to blame for killing Elizabeth and Lyric. At this point, I have no idea who that person is. For all I know, it was someone who saw Elizabeth at church and became obsessed with her. If that turns out to be true, it doesn't make it Heather and Drew's fault for taking their child to church.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Whenever I hear "white van" I think of the DC sniper case. Remember how there was a big hunt for a white van? It turns out white vans are everywhere and it had nothing to do with the case.

I agree.

Not only did it not help the case, it actually slowed it down by causing LE to focus on white vans.

Lee Malvo said in his recent interview that after the news media revealed the white van theory, they intentionally looked for nearby white vans when setting up shots, to continue the confusion.

 

[georger]

For those of you that believe the girls were killed immediately after or close to the time of abduction and the dumped right away, what are the theories about their bodies being so well preserved? I have no idea what to believe but I just can't figure out how they could be so well-preserved and intact after 5 months in the wilderness. Is there some environmental or biological reason that this could have occurred without any additional "refrigeration"?

LE/CBI has released NO FACTS yet. No estimates of time at location have
been released. Nothing. Nada. If and when these facts are released then
the public may be able to help - until then its pure speculation...

 

[georger]

I have not seen confirmation that they were so well-preserved as yet; if there something to this effect? I have seen various statements about being "instantly recognizable" but that can mean a number of things, IMO.

It could be nothing more than "two distinct bodies/remains ... small not
adult corpses" and the probability of that being x,y, or z in that low
population area at this time is >>> 90%+. We still dont have any solid
facts from LE! NOTHING! Dont know iof remains or whole bodies, time of
death, etc etc etc ....

If they want help from the public they have to give the public something
to work with ... and the longer this goes the further away a solution gets!
The murderer could be in Argentina by then.

 

[georger]

I agree.

Not only did it not help the case, it actually slowed it down by causing LE to focus on white vans.

Lee Malvo said in his recent interview that after the news media revealed the white van theory, they intentionally looked for nearby white vans when setting up shots, to continue the confusion.

NEWS reported a beared guy in white van iN two counties today acting
wierd following school buses ... adult man and woman tried to abduct a
kid near Kirkwood in CR just after the Cook event at Evansdale. Yes.
There are a ton of white vans in Iowa. But wierds in white vans is a FACT
right now, whether related to Lyric or not. Its time to protect ALL OF THE
KIDS!

 

[pdxmama]

LE/CBI has released NO FACTS yet. No estimates of time at location have
been released. Nothing. Nada. If and when these facts are released then
the public may be able to help - until then its pure speculation...

I understand that. I am simply referring to the statements that have been made and since we're all sitting around here speculating due to lack of info, I thought I would ask those people who are a little more scientifically inclined IF the statements made by LE about the bodies not looking like they had been in the elements for 4 to 5 months and could be ID'd on sight (at least tentatively) what could be the cause?

What environmental factors could account for a body, that HAD been in the elements for 5 months, being so easily identifiable?

I have no theory and I know we have no facts but those are statements that have been made and I'm just trying to understand them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I mean like, would a killer take the girls out to the spot they were found and then abuse/kill/whatever them if the heat and humidity was uncomfortable or even oppressive. Same goes for if the girls had been killed somewhere else and then taken there and left. I guess I'm just trying to get an idea or a feeling of how long the girls were kept alive or how long they'd been at the site.

I think it depends on how acclimated the individual is.

In my teens and then in my 40s, I spent most of my time outside in the summer and it would take truly extreme heat to slow me down (highs over 100 F). In my 20s and 30s, I worked in office jobs and anything over 80 F really sapped my energy levels when outside.

So I think there is a possibility that the perp is someone who is acclimated to the weather. Maybe someone who works construction or some other outside, physical job. Someone in good enough shape that carrying a 140 lb girl for 100 feet (just an estimate off the top of my head) was possible.

I think that the perp got control of the girls right where their bicycles were found (either by luring or by coercion) and walked them into the woods to Maiden Lane. Both known crime sites suggest someone who was comfortable in the woods.

Then again, maybe he's not much of an outdoor person. Someone who strongly driven can overcome their environment; I think this perp was strongly driven in abducting the two girls in whatever it is he wanted to do with one or both of them and then equally strongly driven to do whatever it took to evade arrest.

I imagine that since the ME has turned the autopsy results over to the Black Hawk County Sheriff's office, there will soon be another press conference that gives more information.

 

[GrainneDhu]

For those of you that believe the girls were killed immediately after or close to the time of abduction and the dumped right away, what are the theories about their bodies being so well preserved? I have no idea what to believe but I just can't figure out how they could be so well-preserved and intact after 5 months in the wilderness. Is there some environmental or biological reason that this could have occurred without any additional "refrigeration"?

There is one single reporter for a network known better for it's drama than for serious investigative reporting who claimed that he had a source that said, blah blah blah.

I think the reason the bodies were ID'd so quickly is exactly what Abben said: the bodies were the right general size and there are no other local children missing who fit the description. Ollipop, a verified local who is related by marriage to the families, posted that he was told that the girls' clothing was found with the bodies.

I think putting all those conditions together, the bodies could have been down to skeletal remains and still been tentatively identified immediately.

Someone, I cannot remember who, pointed out that this very same reporter made sensational claims in another case from an alleged LE source. The claims turned out to be wrong and the source turned out to be a reserve officer who was directing traffic and never got close to the crime scene.

 

[GrainneDhu]

You could be right. That quote about making an "eyeball ID" and then LE saying they didn't look like they had been out in the elements for 4 or 5 months and that they didn't need the parents to make an ID is what I'm thinking of. I guess we just don't have enough info yet.

I interpreted Abben's statement that there was no reason for the families to view the bodies as being of a humanitarian or protective nature. Meaning that since they have many other ways to identify the bodies (dental records, DNA, possessions found with the bodies) there was no reason to subject the families to such an ordeal.

 

[cluciano63]

Did LE actually say that it did not look as though the bodies had been outside for 4-5 months?

If so, is there a link? I know a reporter claims a source told him something to that effect but was not aware LE made such a statement.

 

[georger]

I thought I would ask those people who are a little more scientifically inclined IF the statements made by LE about the bodies not looking like they had been in the elements for 4 to 5 months and could be ID'd on sight (at least tentatively) what could be the cause?

[/quote]

If LE said "the bodies are not looking like they had been in the elements
for 4 to 5 months" then there must be some forensic reason for making
such a statement. Did LE say that? The word bodies vs remains implies
whole intact bodies, I would think, but again Im just guessing because LE
has not released any actual facts, and I fear they won't. I pray we arent
headed for six months of having to listen to maybes and conjecture on
KWWL/KCRG/KCRG, which could easily happen.

Im in the same boat you and everyone else are in: and I am a scientist,
forensic person, ... I dont know nothing because nothing has been
released.

We have to be patient as difficult as that is! Like everyone else, Im just
sick about this ... and in Iowa.

Can an approximate time of death be estimated? Probably yes. That will
depend on the integrity of the bodies. Its common sense.

Thanks. I understand your concern and share in that ...

 

[GrainneDhu]

NEWS reported a beared guy in white van iN two counties today acting
wierd following school buses ... adult man and woman tried to abduct a
kid near Kirkwood in CR just after the Cook event at Evansdale. Yes.
There are a ton of white vans in Iowa. But wierds in white vans is a FACT
right now, whether related to Lyric or not. Its time to protect ALL OF THE
KIDS!

Last summer, several of those "attempted abductions" turned out to be misunderstandings fuelled by increased tension.

The Washington and Henry Counties white van guy has yet to be identified and, more than that, he has yet to commit a crime. I would like for LE to find out who he is but I'm not yet convinced that he has criminal intentions.

So far, there hasn't been anything to link a white van to Lyric and Elizabeth's disappearance.