IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[24Roses]

I have a question, and can't find answer anywhere on the internet. I'm 99% sure the answer is yes, but I'm new at websleuthing so heck if I know. I was going to ask this months ago, and now wish I had.

Let's say a person is in jail on some drug charge, or whatever and is very close to a much bigger case. While in the county jail, she/he confides to another inmate about what she/he heard or knows what happened to the victim/victims in the much bigger separate case she/he is very close to. (I'm thinking This person must not be very smart, right?)

Doesn't the jail monitor these conversations? I mean, isn't every word of what the inmates of the jail taped and listened to constantly, or could something get missed?

I'm not sure if they are audio taped, but I do know that Casey Fredricksen was arrested for Evelyn Miller's murder after he was heard apologizing to her while in prison for drug charges.
I know they do have video survallance, I wonder if it's with audio? That might be difficult to have for individual inmates though?

 

[24Roses]

BBM -That is how it should be done. I don't want to watch NG or JVM have a field day with details. I really like how Heather stated her thoughts concerning this in the interview you linked further up-thread.

WHEN this murderer is caught, tried and convicted, and they will be, there will never be a chance for parole, the community will make sure of that. IMHO

BBM-In Iowa, 1st degree murder carries a life sentence with no chance of parole.You take a life, you spend the rest of your life there!

 

[pdxmama]

I think they would have confirmed likely ID before they told the family. If the girls were dressed in the clothes they were last seen in, that would be straightforward.

If they could have been say, possibly the bodies of two hunters, they wouldn't have called them.

BBM - I've been thinking about this a lot. I would be really surprised if investigators could even identify their clothing after being outside for so long. I have three kids and they have been known to leave items of clothing (socks, etc.) out in the backyard for a few days before I notice and they are often filthy when I find them, even in the summer when we haven't had rain. I can't imagine if those girls had been out there for 5 months that they would be able to instantly identify them based on their clothing before they got them to a lab and did a little clean-up.

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM - I've been thinking about this a lot. I would be really surprised if investigators could even identify their clothing after being outside for so long. I have three kids and they have been known to leave items of clothing (socks, etc.) out in the backyard for a few days before I notice and they are often filthy when I find them, even in the summer when we haven't had rain. I can't imagine if those girls had been out there for 5 months that they would be able to instantly identify them based on their clothing before they got them to a lab and did a little clean-up.

Has it been confirmed how long they've been out there?

:what:

 

[FootballMom]

I think they would have confirmed likely ID before they told the family. If the girls were dressed in the clothes they were last seen in, that would be straightforward.

If they could have been say, possibly the bodies of two hunters, they wouldn't have called them.

I believe HC said, "bodies of two girls" and naturally we can presume they felt fairly confident that it was their girls. My point was that identifying them as "bodies" vs. "remains" as well as their gender so rapidly tells me they were easily identified visually as female... not based just on their clothing.

I would expect significant deterioration of the clothing to make it hard to identify on sight as matching what the girls were wearing. I could not find a description but I'm sure many of you here would know fairly quickly.

Here is an interesting read albeit a bit lengthy regarding deterioration of clothing with human remains; "cotton, wool and acetate deteriorate quicker when exposed to environmental conditions including human decomposition than to environmental conditions and no human decomposition; silk, acrylic and nylon deteriorate more slowly when exposed to environmental conditions including human decomposition; and polyester showed no differential response."

http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/view...ctim clothing deterioration elements autopsy"

 

[pdxmama]

Has it been confirmed how long they've been out there?

:what:

No, but many (WS'ers that is) are saying they think they have been out there this whole time. I'm not sure if I agree based on what seemed to be a fairly easy visual ID by LE.

 

[pdxmama]

I believe HC said, "bodies of two girls" and naturally we can presume they felt fairly confident that it was their girls. My point was that identifying them as "bodies" vs. "remains" as well as their gender so rapidly tells me they were easily identified visually as female... not based just on their clothing.

I would expect significant deterioration of the clothing to make it hard to identify on sight as matching what the girls were wearing. I could not find a description but I'm sure many of you here would know fairly quickly.

Here is an interesting read albeit a bit lengthy regarding deterioration of clothing with human remains; "cotton, wool and acetate deteriorate quicker when exposed to environmental conditions including human decomposition than to environmental conditions and no human decomposition; silk, acrylic and nylon deteriorate more slowly when exposed to environmental conditions including human decomposition; and polyester showed no differential response."

http://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/view...ctim clothing deterioration elements autopsy"

BBM - Oh my goodness, I wasn't even thinking of the added discoloration/ destruction of clothing that would come from decomp itself. I was just thinking of them being dirty and falling apart from 5 months in the woods. I'm not sure what to think about all of this. Thanks for that info, very interesting.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Each jail is different but in Flordia when Haleigh Cumming's father, girlfriend, her brother, father's cousin & another woman were arrested, they had video and audio of their jail conversations with family & friends. Hours of them we listened to when released. Florida is a Sunshine State & released them and still no one has been charged. Iowa is now a Sunshine State and they haven't released anything due to the on going investigation.

eta, of course the tapes released were redacted.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Do a search for Caylee Anthony's clothes after 6 months exposed in a swampy field. The clothes were in bad shape but still identifiable.

 

[tlcya]

BBM - I've been thinking about this a lot. I would be really surprised if investigators could even identify their clothing after being outside for so long. I have three kids and they have been known to leave items of clothing (socks, etc.) out in the backyard for a few days before I notice and they are often filthy when I find them, even in the summer when we haven't had rain. I can't imagine if those girls had been out there for 5 months that they would be able to instantly identify them based on their clothing before they got them to a lab and did a little clean-up.

This neither proves nor disproves how long the girls (or clothes) but think how long little Caylee Anthony's clothes were out in the elements in that funky swampy flooded area. And yet some were still very identifiable.

 

[cindersoot]

The top photo was taken by a photographer with the Gazette. It was posted on their website.

The bottom one was also on a website, from one of the TV stations I think, but I didn't save the info.

I don't remember who did the markup, unfortunately. Brain has hit overload...

Wow! Good catch.

 

[carbuff]

So much about the clothing depends on what material they were made out of and what kind of dye was used. Some kinds of cheap nylon are all but indestructible. Some materials will last a long time under water but disintegrate quickly in sunlight.

 

[FootballMom]

I've been wondering about the point of entry and the possibility that perhaps an ATV might have been used to get to the clearing.

I compared several historical images when the water levels were low that are very similar in appearance to now. The clearing is generally the first area of significant water to be met when approaching from the south or west. Perhaps they drove an ATV as far as they could and went no further.

I have 3 alternate routes identified on the images (other than from the West/loop drive):

BLUE: approximately 815 feet going North from 270th Street on the West side

RED: approximately 2,850 feet going West from 270th Street on the East side

YELLOW: approximately 3,115 feet going West from the field on the East side

The historical images are dated: 2011 wide overview (to show area), November 2003, October 2006, October 2008 and September 2009.

 

[chelsea6]

I'm not sure if they are audio taped, but I do know that Casey Fredricksen was arrested for Evelyn Miller's murder after he was heard apologizing to her while in prison for drug charges.
I know they do have video survallance, I wonder if it's with audio? That might be difficult to have for individual inmates though?

Yes, this was between individual inmates. So if it wasn't taped I'm safe in assuming it would just be hearsay and couldn't be admissable as evidence no matter how big the case is?

 

[tlcya]

With Seven Bridges open again, passersby could see the recent tire tracks down the wildlife area’s dirt roads. The spot were the bodies were apparently located is an unremarkable bank above a fork in the Wapsipinicon River, about a tenth of a mile walk from a roundabout parking area.

Two small strips of yellow tape declaring “Caution Sheriff Line Do Not Cross” remain tied to logs, and an occasional orange-and-silver striped ribbon marker can be seen in the brush.

Tall grass that once covered the area was cut in the search, and bushes and saplings were clipped.

Thanks to SouthernMom's link http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_eb5c81b6-42db-11e2-b39a-001a4bcf887a.html I think we can put this to bed. Still doesn't preclude some evidence having been gathered from trees, branches and brush, but the above states those items were cut/trimmed etc "in the search" so, no campfire making perp IMO and it seems less likely to me that trees were cut down for bullet holes, etc. Just my own opinion. Also appreciate that the article specifies once more that the grass in the area was TALL. Which IMO means those bodies could well have been hidden in plain sight by tall lush green grasses earlier in the summer.

 

[strawberry]

Do a search for Caylee Anthony's clothes after 6 months exposed in a swampy field. The clothes were in bad shape but still identifiable.

Here are the shorts (that were found four years ago today ):


http://patrishka.wordpress.com/2010...horts-exhibit-31-in-cindy-anthony-deposition/

Here are the letters from her shirt:

http://abcnews.go.com/widgets/mediaViewer/image?id=13810286

 

[tlcya]

I've been wondering about the point of entry and the possibility that perhaps an ATV might have been used to get to the clearing.

I compared several historical images when the water levels were low and they are very similar in appearance to now. The clearing is generally the first area of significant water to be met when approaching from the south or west. Perhaps they drove the ATV as far as they could and went no further.

I have 3 alternate routes identified on the images (other than from the East/loop drive):

BLUE: approximately 815 feet from 270th Street (west)

RED: approximately 2,850 feet from 270th Street (east)

YELLOW: approximately 3,115 feet from the field (west)

Apologies... I'm having trouble again with uploading images but I will come back and edit this post to add them as soon as I figure out what my technical "opportunities" entail.

ty footballmom, I would love to see it once linked or uploaded. The route in is something I have been trying to nail down from the get.

 

[FootballMom]

Do a search for Caylee Anthony's clothes after 6 months exposed in a swampy field. The clothes were in bad shape but still identifiable.

I only remember little bits and pieces of destroyed fabric from her shirt and a few tatters of the letters. She is actually what made me think of the condition the girls clothing might have been in or close if they had been there in the summer elements until last week.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think it is effecting everyone following her case or that lives in that area. It's very heart breaking.

In the interview with Heather, she said she dreams of Lizzie and can see her smile, talk to her, etc. What a blessing God is giving her in allowing that and her to feel close to her at this time. She says she welcomes them and I've experienced the same thing. Enjoying the time in your dreams when you know it's not a possibility upon awakening. (((hugs to you Heather))) God Bless.

BBM

I, too, know exactly what she means. I hope these dreams help her as she begins to move into life without Lizzie.

 

[SouthernMom]

ty footballmom, I would love to see it once linked or uploaded. The route in is something I have been trying to nail down from the get.

I would like to see that too, although I am leaning towards believing it's the shortest route. This would make it possible to walk the girls in quickly and easily while avoiding possibly being seen.

I just can't shake the feeling that this crime was completed before LE found the bikes at 4 pm.