IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[tlcya]

Ty footballmom I see you were able to upload the images.

 

[passionflower]

I think they've had their suspect/s all along.

I hope now that they found the girls, they will be able to prove it and make an arrest.

Note even though the girls have been found murdered, there are still no LE warnings about a predator.

trying to catch up.......
BBM
YES! I agree!

 

[passionflower]

Do a search for Caylee Anthony's clothes after 6 months exposed in a swampy field. The clothes were in bad shape but still identifiable.

yes, I find myself comparing the 2 scenes.
Caylee was encased in a bag and yet her tiny body was scattered by animals.
Plants grew through her dump grave.
This for some reason seems different from the small ammount of
knowlege we have been given so far. JMOO

 

[pdxmama]

Here are the shorts (that were found four years ago today ):


http://patrishka.wordpress.com/2010...horts-exhibit-31-in-cindy-anthony-deposition/

Here are the letters from her shirt:

http://abcnews.go.com/widgets/mediaViewer/image?id=13810286

Thanks so much! I was searching for these pics and couldn't find them. Man, looking at those just made my heart sink all over again. I agree they aren't completely destroyed but I'm not sure that they would make an immediate ID possible while the "body" is still in the location it was found in. Thanks again.

 

[chelsea6]

yes, I find myself comparing the 2 scenes.
Caylee was encased in a bag and yet her tiny body was scattered by animals.
Plants grew through her dump grave.
This for some reason seems different from the small ammount of
knowlege we have been given so far. JMOO

That's what I was wondering. I don't see a larger area with digging/sifting many containers of dirt, then findings coming out for days, etc. :waitasec:

 

[tlcya]

Going with the speculation about the girls being more recently killed (trying to keep an open mind here) that would involve the perp taking a huge risk. He would need to keep them secreted somewhere, feed, maintain them, all while the entire state was on the lookout for them. Their bodies being found locally suggests they would have been kept somwhere locally as well. How would that work?

Even if they were kiled right away, I just don't know if I can see them being killed where they were found. So open, right out there on a beautiful day.

:shakehead:

If sexually motivated, I think perp would have needed somewhere to do the deed, somewhere off the beaten track. A house, an outbuilding, a basement, somwhere without close neighbors in order to get the girls secured without being seen, heard, etc.

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

 

[carbuff]

I would like to see that too, although I am leaning towards believing it's the shortest route. This would make it possible to walk the girls in quickly and easily while avoiding possibly being seen.

I just can't shake the feeling that this crime was completed before LE found the bikes at 4 pm.

I agree with you about the timing.

I think whoever it was and whatever the motivation, he grabbed them close to the place they were supposed to be, killed them and disposed of the bodies, and returned to stage the bikes.

 

[Angleena]

I have a question, and can't find answer anywhere on the internet. I'm 99% sure the answer is yes, but I'm new at websleuthing so heck if I know. I was going to ask this months ago, and now wish I had.

Let's say a person is in jail on some drug charge, or whatever and is very close to a much bigger case. While in the county jail, she/he confides to another inmate about what she/he heard or knows what happened to the victim/victims in the much bigger separate case she/he is very close to. (I'm thinking This person must not be very smart, right?)

Doesn't the jail monitor these conversations? I mean, isn't every word of what the inmates of the jail taped and listened to constantly, or could something get missed?

I do not believe there is any possible way they could ever monitor every conversation inmates have. However, nearly every other inmate is a prisoners worst enemy because they are all looking to get out of prison sooner and don't really care whose toes they step on. Prisoners often have their sentences shortened in exchange for testimony about a conversation they had with another inmate. Again, it just happened recently in the Evelyn Miller case (another Iowa case) and was the only reason they were finally able to find probable cause to make an arrest - because her now accused killer was in prison on other charges talking to other inmates about things that only the killer and LE knew. Which is another reason why it is very important that LE doesn't release a lot of information. With the recent arrest (Sept 2012) of a suspect in the Evelyn Miller case (2005), I think it is in the forefront in the minds on Iowa LE and even greater reason to remain tight lipped in this case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Lizzie had braces, which would make her remains instantly identifiable, just by sight.

 

[NWLady]

I am not having any luck clicking on the link to KWWL for Heather's extended interview, it seems the video won't load? :banghead: It shows it's there but when I click on it, nothing happens. I also went to KWWL's website and the same thing happpens. Has anybody else had this problem and/or any suggestions? Thanking you in advance!

 

[Just Pat 22]

I gleaned two things from the following article:


snip <<Tall grass that once covered the area was cut in the search, and bushes and saplings were clipped.>>

snip <<The remote location is mainly used by hunters, fisherman and the occasional camper. Those searching for mushrooms frequent the area in the spring.>>

My observations are that
1.the area where the girls were found may not have been a "clearing" as some have thought until it was cleared by LE. and
2. Meyers Lake, where the girls disappeared, was also used by fishermen.

Just something to ponder.

HI SO. Mom Your right I recall reading that if the hunters had stepped three feet away they would have never founds them becauseof the Tall Weeds . I love the word Ponder . It really makes you think . God bless those girls and let us get the sick perp that did this.

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Evansdale Police chief interview from today-At the end of the interview, he warns parents to be cautious with their children at this point.

"Smock says law enforcement has taken this case very personal and they will keep working until those people involved are brought to justice. He says for now, parents need to stay cautious.

"We don't know at this point who is out there. I wouldn't ask people to become paranoid but I would ask them to be cautious and to use good common sense when we are out and about and what you're doing with your children," said Smock"

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20317006/2012/12/11/evansdale-police-chief-says-he-wants-justice

 

[iamnotagolem]

Going with the speculation about the girls being more recently killed (trying to keep an open mind here) that would involve the perp taking a huge risk. He would need to keep them secreted somewhere, feed, maintain them, all while the entire state was on the lookout for them. Their bodies being found locally suggests they would have been kept somwhere locally as well. How would that work?

Even if they were kiled right away, I just don't know if I can see them being killed where they were found. So open, right out there on a beautiful day.

:shakehead:

If sexually motivated, I think perp would have needed somewhere to do the deed, somewhere off the beaten track. A house, an outbuilding, a basement, somwhere without close neighbors in order to get the girls secured without being seen, heard, etc.

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

I'm right there with you. I'm not sure how good my gut instincts are....but I've always thought the girls were dead before the 911 call. I don't know if I believe it was a sexually motivated crime. Why take two, when one will do? Unless the perp knew the girls then he couldn't grab one and leave the other. In that case, why not find a girl alone?

If he knew the girls, then was it really sexually motivated? Was only one the target and the other collateral damage? Did he kill one immediately while he assaulted the other?

The phrasing of "bodies" bothers me so much. Why not remains? Were the girls kept alive until recently? In that case it makes me doubt even more that this was sexually motivated. Were the girls frozen then dumped recently? If so, why? Was necrophilia involved? Or was freezing them just a good solution to hiding their bodies until the searches had all ceased?

Too many questions, not enough answers. :banghead:

 

[carbuff]

I'm not sure LE always puts that much thought into the implications of what they say. If they said bodies instead of remains, they were probably just trying not to sound so harsh.

 

[foxbluff]

BBM - I've been thinking about this a lot. I would be really surprised if investigators could even identify their clothing after being outside for so long. I have three kids and they have been known to leave items of clothing (socks, etc.) out in the backyard for a few days before I notice and they are often filthy when I find them, even in the summer when we haven't had rain. I can't imagine if those girls had been out there for 5 months that they would be able to instantly identify them based on their clothing before they got them to a lab and did a little clean-up.

I see what you're saying

What about jewelry? Shoes?

 

[chelsea6]

I do not believe there is any possible way they could ever monitor every conversation inmates have. However, nearly every other inmate is a prisoners worst enemy because they are all looking to get out of prison sooner and don't really care whose toes they step on. Prisoners often have their sentences shortened in exchange for testimony about a conversation they had with another inmate. Again, it just happened recently in the Evelyn Miller case (another Iowa case) and was the only reason they were finally able to find probable cause to make an arrest - because her now accused killer was in prison on other charges talking to other inmates about things that only the killer and LE knew. Which is another reason why it is very important that LE doesn't release a lot of information. With the recent arrest (Sept 2012) of a suspect in the Evelyn Miller case (2005), I think it is in the forefront in the minds on Iowa LE and even greater reason to remain tight lipped in this case.

These people are used to keeping their mouths shut, as they all get drugs from each other. I couldn't believe this mom wouldn't go to the police after she was told this information by her daughter/son, but then again, Meth is a strong drug and holds a lot of secrets. In their world, to come out and talk to police puts them all in danger.

 

[24Roses]

I agree with you about the timing.

I think whoever it was and whatever the motivation, he grabbed them close to the place they were supposed to be, killed them and disposed of the bodies, and returned to stage the bikes.

Do you think he took the bikes with him & the girls, & then disposed of the bodies after staging the bikes? I think it would be very bold of him to kill the girls & then return since by then the families should have been in the area looking for them.

 

[pdxmama]

I see what you're saying

What about jewelry? Shoes?

Those would probably be more visible and for longer. Finding shoes or jewelry would make more sense to me as a reason for such a quick ID.

 

[Joe Friday]

Lizzie had braces, which would make her remains instantly identifiable, just by sight.

Was it ever revealed that the "entire" bodies of both girls was found? (Sorry I haven't been following along that regularly in the past few days.)

I thought it was awful strange how long it took for positive ID to be made. You would have thought dental records could have been compared and ID would have been made the same day or at the very least the next day during autopsy. The only two thing I can think of for the delay would be if there were only dental records for the one girl and LE didn't want to announce anything until positive ID was made on both girls in which case DNA had to be used or maybe there was nothing to compare known dental records with, which might indicate possible dismemberment.


On a side note:

I think some members of WS are reading too far into "bodies" as far as what condition the remains must have been in when found. Different people say things in different ways. I think it is more of a respect thing to say bodies regardless of whether or not it is skeletal remains that was found or not.

JMO

 

[Considering]

Lizzie had braces, which would make her remains instantly identifiable, just by sight.

I don't think Lizzy wore braces. IIRC, on one of the early threads, someone posted that it appeared that Lizzy wore braces, basing that information on a photograph. However, after enlarging the photograph, I believe it was determined that what had appeared to be braces was not. Also, LE never mentioned braces in their description of Lizzy.