IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

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Do you think he took the bikes with him & the girls, & then disposed of the bodies after staging the bikes? I think it would be very bold of him to kill the girls & then return since by then the families should have been in the area looking for them.

I've thought that they were possibly abducted on or near the trail and someone else (either an accomplice or innocent bystander) moved the bikes from off the path... ya know... so folks wouldn't have "swerve to miss them".

Not even JMO... just a rambling imagination.
 
I see what you're saying

What about jewelry? Shoes?

They did find at least one shoe. If it were the flip flops that we've seen pictures of, I don't think they would deteriorate much in 5 months.
 
The more i read under CF's mug shot the more my brain is going hmmmm.. seems like other people are having the same thoughts we are...
 
I have a question, and can't find answer anywhere on the internet. I'm 99% sure the answer is yes, but I'm new at websleuthing so heck if I know. I was going to ask this months ago, and now wish I had.

Let's say a person is in jail on some drug charge, or whatever and is very close to a much bigger case. While in the county jail, she/he confides to another inmate about what she/he heard or knows what happened to the victim/victims in the much bigger separate case she/he is very close to. (I'm thinking This person must not be very smart, right?)

Doesn't the jail monitor these conversations? I mean, isn't every word of what the inmates of the jail taped and listened to constantly, or could something get missed?

At least in Iowa, the answer is no, conversations between inmates are not routinely monitored.

The primary reasons are all practical. It's much more difficult than TV makes it seem to bug large open spaces. It's nearly impossible, in fact. What you get tends to be a muffled jumble of sounds and individual conversations are unintelligible.

Monitoring conversations between inmates and visitors is somewhat easier when the system whereby the two people sit on either side of a barrier and use telephones handsets to communicate.

Even if bugging the cells and recreational spaces were possible, there's the personnel problem. In order to effectively monitor anything, someone has to watch or listen to the conversations. I'm betting that well over 99% of what is said between inmates is boring, ordinary stuff like "can you hand me a kleenex?" Can you imagine how mind numbingly boring it would be to listen to 16 hours of that stuff per inmate per day? From the prison's point of view, each monitor is someone who has to be paid a certain wage and receive certain benefits, which mounts up fast.

Occasionally, when LE finds out there might be an inmate with knowledge of a certain crime, they will wire an individual, either an inmate or an impostor, and hope the wired individual can induce a confession. They have to be careful, though, not to do something that could be interpreted as entrapment (which is illegal and anything gotten by means of entrapment is not useable in court for any purpose). And even wiring someone is not a foolproof way to catch both sides of a conversation, depending on acoustics, etc. Quite often, what an individual wire ends up with is a lovely recording of their own voice with muffled sounds for the other half of the recording.

Finally, keep in mind that many jail and prison inmates have way too much time on their hands and are incredibly bored. It is not unusual for an inmate to get to the point where they are so desperate for something to alleviate the boredom of the usual day that they will say they know something they really don't.

Or inmates looking for some way of plea bargaining for pending charges will try trading knowledge of alleged confessions by cell mates. This has been shown to be a factor in a significant number of false convictions. When you take everything away from someone, by definition you leave that person with nothing to lose. A certain number will try out a fake confession, knowing that the worst that can happen is nothing.
 
at this point I am wondering about JVM leaked info about the bodies being frozen........
It just might be so.
1. I'D by eye quickly.
2. I feel the girls were murdered asap.
3. I just don't think they laid there for 5 months with activity there.
4. I could see a SO keeping 1 girl alive but 2 would be a handful,
JMOO

Again, I reinterate my theory about them being killed, put in a freezer large enough to hold large quantities of wild game, and when deer hunting season approached, he felt the need to clean it out, took the bodies to a location that he knew was remote. Maybe this eliminates CF, but its a possibility.

I wonder if CF hunts???
 
Of course like everyone else, I have no clue what happened, but I struggle with the real elaborate plans like taking the bikes and then returning to stage them. Or leaving your phone somewhere so it pings somewhere while you are committing a crime somewhere else. I just don't know that people go to those lengths unless they are really close to the victim and know that they will be the prime suspect. I just don't see all of that in this case. I think this is a sick person or persons that did what they did with little foresight. All only my opinion.
 
Black Hawk I believe due to that is where the case originated from

If they lived somewhere else they would be held there and then sent back to black hawk at some point though
 
So theoretically I could call BH county jail and ask if CF was there currently right?
 
Would they update the website if he were just detained for questioning, as if to not get the communities hopes up with an arrest for this case and it turn out to not be him?
 
BBM - I've been thinking about this a lot. I would be really surprised if investigators could even identify their clothing after being outside for so long. I have three kids and they have been known to leave items of clothing (socks, etc.) out in the backyard for a few days before I notice and they are often filthy when I find them, even in the summer when we haven't had rain. I can't imagine if those girls had been out there for 5 months that they would be able to instantly identify them based on their clothing before they got them to a lab and did a little clean-up.

Depends on what the items are made of and what the environmental conditions were.

For instance, shoes last an amazing amount of time in the environment. Even shoes with cotton canvas uppers are usually given coatings to make them water repellent (not waterproof).

Up in Canada, there has been a series of feet in shoes washing up on beaches. They are clearly feet that naturally disarticulated from the rest of the body. Most of them are unidentified but a few of them have been DNA linked to known people and that reveals the feet have been in the ocean for over a year. The reason they last so long is because the feet are encased in shoes, mostly tennis shoes (do they still call them tennis shoes?).

Any fabric that has a significant percentage of polyester in it will last quite a while in the environment. It's plastic, after all, and will probably last for decades if not centuries.

Most jewellery will last a long time in the environment mostly unchanged as well. Even base metal that has been electroplated will be identifiable even though the electroplated coating may not last.
 
So theoretically I could call BH county jail and ask if CF was there currently right?

I think so... I have never had to inquire at the BH county jail.. but have in butler and franklin county, and i could get a "yes" or "no".
 
Waterloopolice.com, click on daily arrest log.
 
Yes, this was between individual inmates. So if it wasn't taped I'm safe in assuming it would just be hearsay and couldn't be admissable as evidence no matter how big the case is?

I think it is admissible since both people who were in the conversation can testify in court. That's how jailhouse confessions come into evidence in court.

Unfortunately, then it becomes a contest to see which person seems most credible.

Jailhouse informants were the significant factor in 15% of false convictions and a less significant factor in more than that.
 
I do not believe there is any possible way they could ever monitor every conversation inmates have. However, nearly every other inmate is a prisoners worst enemy because they are all looking to get out of prison sooner and don't really care whose toes they step on. Prisoners often have their sentences shortened in exchange for testimony about a conversation they had with another inmate. Again, it just happened recently in the Evelyn Miller case (another Iowa case) and was the only reason they were finally able to find probable cause to make an arrest - because her now accused killer was in prison on other charges talking to other inmates about things that only the killer and LE knew. Which is another reason why it is very important that LE doesn't release a lot of information. With the recent arrest (Sept 2012) of a suspect in the Evelyn Miller case (2005), I think it is in the forefront in the minds on Iowa LE and even greater reason to remain tight lipped in this case.

In the Evelyn Miller case, LE made it clear nearly from the beginning who their suspect was (Casey Frederickson). It just took a while for them to get evidence to convict him of Evelyn's death.

In the Evelyn Miller case, in every interview LE would subtly talk about the inconsistencies and sheer unlikeliness of the main suspect's account of the night. No one ever came right out and said "yeah, we think it was the boyfriend" but they didn't have to. It was obvious what the LE theory of the case was.

I don't see anything like that happening in this case.
 
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