IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

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The flip flops are something that I had not really heard about until just recently.
I am a little surprised that the flip flops were found at the park. I seemed to stump my toes in flip flops as a kid and the thing doodle would pop out, I was better off bare foot even riding my bike.
 
Does anyone know if any of the family were acquaintances, or even possibly friends with CF?
 
I'm surprised that Elizabeths flip flops were found. They don't stay on the feet well and if the body was carried wouldn't they have fallen off?
 
Rereading articles from the beginning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ives-fear-missing-iowa-cousins-were-abducted/

"The area where the bikes were found is fenced on both sides, and it is right where maintenance gate is. It is a spot that looks to me like a trap," Morrissey said. "Somebody could have just come along right then or followed them down. It would have been the worst spot to be in."


bbm, To me this works both ways as in, that same spot would have been the closest and best place to dump the bikes. Look how long it took to find the bikes. Hours! No one wanted to think or believe that the girls would have wondered that far. It doesn't matter who or what said what, the point is it was hours.

I personally feel that they were picked up on the road/street and the bikes were dropped off at that spot at the lake, just a feeling I got. jmo

It would have been interesting if LE did have someone in their radar and were able to "watch" them as the news of the girls being found was released but I seriously do not think they have anyone they suspect. jmo
 
http://library-resources.cqu.edu.au/JFS/PDF/vol_44/iss_3/JFSCH12.pdf
(snipped - read more)
Child Abduction: Aged-Based Analyses of
Offender, Victim, and Offense Characteristics in
550 Cases of Alleged Child Disappearance*

While Finkelhor found that young school-aged children (age 5 to
12) were at lower risk for homicide, this study found that school-aged
children (age 6 to 12) experienced a large increase in the risk
of abduction and homicide. Hanfland et al. (16) also found an increase in the abduction and homicide of school-aged children (age6 to 12).
Again, differences in case selectivity may partially account for this finding. Within abduction offenses, there appears to
be a continuum of increasing risk for victims ultimately based on
the increased mobility and independence of the aging child.
Younger children are more often victimized by family members
and acquaintances in protected circumstances, whereas older, more
physically mature children (e.g., school-aged) are abducted outside
of the home by acquaintances and strangers primarily for sexual
reasons.
The data presented in this study were obtained from FBI child
abduction and homicide case files
 
I'm surprised that Elizabeths flip flops were found. They don't stay on the feet well and if the body was carried wouldn't they have fallen off?

They didn't say she was still wearing them, so they could have.....
1) Been walked in
2) Carried in and the shoes did not fall off
3) The shoes were carried there also and dumped
 
I can't imagine the girls going voluntarily with anyone, whether they knew them or not, and leaving behind a purse and phone. To me, this implies force. And that could mean two abductors, not positively of course, but it would make sense that one was ready to drive off, or it took two to get them into the car quickly.

Most little girls I have seen with purses can't be parted from them. Not to mention their bikes.

I am picturing two losers driving around on a Friday with nothing better to do, maybe in a car full of beer cans. If so, let's hope one of them decides to rat on the other.

Yeah don't know why, but I'm feeling two perps, too.
 
Snipped

Dan Morrissey, Lyric's father, could not be found by authorities before they broke the news. According to Cook, Dan knew the police were trying to make contact but was scared, as he faces a domestic abuse trial and trials for possession with intent to deliver methamphetamine and running a meth lab stemming from incidents before the disappearance.

"They finally did talk to him, I think, on Friday," Cook said. "He's OK. I talk to him every so often."


http://qctimes.com/news/local/servi...cle_09ef603a-453e-11e2-8659-0019bb2963f4.html
 
O/T - wow... we're already 1,000+ messages.

It took me forever today to wade through pages which gave me way more info than I needed abt a whole bunch of you. :)

Age? <checked>
Age of Onset of Menses? <checked>
Height? <checked>
Weight? <checked>

Now... open wide and say aaah...
 
After the interview yesterday (which I haven't yet completely viewed), I think that we have two new pieces of information. The children's shoes were at the scene and the day they were murdered is given as July 13. That suggests to me that the girls were taken directly to the 7 Bridges park, wearing their shoes, and murdered. From there, I think we know two things: the perp is local (which we pretty much already knew), and the perp had to get back to his life by Saturday. I strongly suspect that the perp has returned to the scene more than once to check out whether the bodies continued to be difficult to find. I also doubt that anyone starts their criminal career by abducting two young girls, so this person is on someone's radar. I would bet that this person travels with a powerful flashlight in the vehicle to navigate the area at night. I would also bet that this person has mentioned the park in casual conversation during the last 5 months ... and shown too much interest in the investigation. Hopefully there will be an arrest soon.
 
Snipped

Dan Morrissey, Lyric's father, could not be found by authorities before they broke the news. According to Cook, Dan knew the police were trying to make contact but was scared, as he faces a domestic abuse trial and trials for possession with intent to deliver methamphetamine and running a meth lab stemming from incidents before the disappearance.

"They finally did talk to him, I think, on Friday," Cook said. "He's OK. I talk to him every so often."


http://qctimes.com/news/local/servi...cle_09ef603a-453e-11e2-8659-0019bb2963f4.html

Your child is missing........but you're afraid to talk to LE because of pending trials? :waitasec: (sitting on my hands on this one)
 
After the interview yesterday (which I haven't yet completely viewed), I think that we have two new pieces of information. The children's shoes were at the scene and the day they were murdered is given as July 13. That suggests to me that the girls were taken directly to the 7 Bridges park, wearing their shoes, and murdered. From there, I think we know two things: the perp is local (which we pretty much already knew), and the perp had to get back to his life by Saturday. I strongly suspect that the perp has returned to the scene more than once to check out whether the bodies continued to be difficult to find. I also doubt that anyone starts their criminal career by abducting two young girls, so this person is on someone's radar. I would bet that this person travels with a powerful flashlight in the vehicle to navigate the area at night. I would also bet that this person has mentioned the park in casual conversation during the last 5 months ... and shown too much interest in the investigation. Hopefully there will be an arrest soon.

Otto, do you think someone who visits the site, would take more time to conceal them or even bury them after the initial panic moment of 7/13 was over? Or do you think they would just do some kind of walk by to make sure they are still there?
 
Your child is missing........but you're afraid to talk to LE because of pending trials? :waitasec: (sitting on my hands on this one)

Investigators have said that he is not a suspect, so his reluctance to speak wiith police was connected to his criminal activities related to meth and domestic abuse.
 
Investigators have said that he is not a suspect, so his reluctance to speak wiith police was connected to his criminal activities related to meth and domestic abuse.

This is correct.

I wonder if avoiding the police was because he knew they would eventually be contacting him to say bodies had been found (because statistically in case like this, that's the case- not because he had any inside knowledge) and really didn't want to actually hear or face that the girls' bodies had been found. Maybe he felt like if he could avoid hearing it from authorities he wouldn't have to face that his little girl & niece were dead, even though he already knew in the back of his mind by this time it was likely.
 
Your child is missing........but you're afraid to talk to LE because of pending trials? :waitasec: (sitting on my hands on this one)

I wish I could sit on my hands, too. I find that news troublesome on more than one level. I mean, I thought given his court-case-circumstances he would have been wearing some type of ankle bracelet. And, did he really disappear aft hearing LE was looking for him or had he already disappeared and LE didn't know that until they needed to contact him due to finding his dau's body?!? IDK...
 
After the interview yesterday (which I haven't yet completely viewed), I think that we have two new pieces of information. The children's shoes were at the scene and the day they were murdered is given as July 13. That suggests to me that the girls were taken directly to the 7 Bridges park, wearing their shoes, and murdered. From there, I think we know two things: the perp is local (which we pretty much already knew), and the perp had to get back to his life by Saturday. I strongly suspect that the perp has returned to the scene more than once to check out whether the bodies continued to be difficult to find. I also doubt that anyone starts their criminal career by abducting two young girls, so this person is on someone's radar. I would bet that this person travels with a powerful flashlight in the vehicle to navigate the area at night. I would also bet that this person has mentioned the park in casual conversation during the last 5 months ... and shown too much interest in the investigation. Hopefully there will be an arrest soon.

It's normal for authorities, the ME and the funeral home to use the date of disappearance as the date of death until it can be confirmed....IF they can. At this point, we can't say it was the day the infact passed.

Your child is missing........but you're afraid to talk to LE because of pending trials? :waitasec: (sitting on my hands on this one)

May have been "under the weather" so to speak and LE would have known it. jmo
 
Otto, do you think someone who visits the site, would take more time to conceal them or even bury them after the initial panic moment of 7/13 was over? Or do you think they would just do some kind of walk by to make sure they are still there?

I think the perp returned to the scene because he wanted to be sure that they were well concealed. I don't think he would return to bury them, as that would increase the risk of getting caught. If he was discovered near the bodies, then he could simply claim that he discovered them. If he was discovered near the bodies with a shovel, that looks entirely different.

From the aerial photos taken when the bodies were discovered, it looks to me like they are not buried, but instead lying above the ground.
 
I find it so sad that (it appears) misty doesn't want th girls buried together. Would've been a lovely gesture, together in life and in death.

I think that Misty probably has good reasons for not having the girls buried and memorialized together.

One of which, in my opinion, is that little Lizzie would over-shine (so to speak) Lyric at the memorial. Lyric is smaller, cuter (in a traditional little kid way), and looks more innocent than her older, more developed cousin. Lyric looks less like a child, and therefore less innocent, cute, helpless etc (although we know she was all of these things because she's 10).

I was heavy and 5'6"ish at age 10 and had started to develop. Teachers treated me differently. I'd overhear them call the short, thin, not yet developing girls "so cute" and baby them. I felt like they and some adults thought I was an ugly duckling and would forget that I was the same age as those "little kids" despite being stuck in a woman's body (with size 11 feet). It was like they expected me to act older than the "little" girls my same age and be more mature/not kid around all cutesy like the "little" girls. I was taller than all but one of the boys in my grade & I always felt like some were suspicious that I and the other developing, larger girls would be interested in boys in a way that the little girls were not. Like developing early made us more prone to be promiscuous or something, when really, all we wanted to do was play Barbies and watch "The Lion King" like other 10 year olds & wish away all of the changes that were happening to our bodies. Many adults seemed to have a presumption we were somehow less innocent or less like children because we were bigger.

My guess is "little"/younger Lizzie would have taken away some of the spotlight from Lyric, at least in a memorial service. Putting pics of the two side by side might cause some to question that perhaps the older, more developed cousin was talking to someone online, meeting a boy, etc that led to this event and poor little Lizzie got dragged into it & hurt also.

I hope this all makes sense. I am not saying anyone at WS has treated either girl differently or as less/more innocent or as less/more of a child. However, my guess (based on my own experience) is that many of the adults (non-family members) who interacted with Lyric treated her somewhat differently from other "little" less-developed kids her own age and that as her mom, Misty picked up on this & we're seeing it in her decision to have a separate service/burial.

I grew for about a year more, eventually reaching 5'8ish with size 11 feet (thank goodness my feet didn't grow anymore). I eventually lost a lot of weight and entered college as 5'8ish and 135lbs/size 4/6 or so (not what I weigh/wear anymore) and outgrew my ugly duckling, kid in a woman's body, awkward 10-13 year old overweight developing-early phase. Lyric reminds me of myself as far as her size at that age (granted I was taller as well)- I am sad that she will never get to enjoy her swan phase where the adults (and sometimes other kids) who treated you so differently during that awkward stage see you and are shocked at the beautiful swan you've become (and you can tell they feel bad for how they acted towards you years ago). Just another thing this perp stole from these girls.
 
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