IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[georger]

While there is no proof and nothing to support it side from my belief that predators (and that is who I think is responsible) tend to operate in areas they are more familiar with and have some knowledge or comfort with.

I do think our perp knew of this spot and had at least passing familiarity of it. I think it much more unlikely that perp "happened" upon this spot whil driving around with two abducted children (alive or dead) in his vehicle and hoping to find an area which offered privacy.

Is there a store of some kind on the road to this place, close to the road
to this place ... you get my drift ... with a video taping machine ? Tapes
saved? Im betting LE is looking into this - even a priovate home with a
video taping of an entrance which might cover part of a road beyond ...

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm lost. Who's blood in the soil are we hoping to find? If it is the girls, how would this help identify the killer? I know I am missing something obvious.

There was a post earlier today by WolfDreamer asking if it would be possible for blood to still be in the soil. No one answered the question, so I bumped it up because I felt it was interesting and I didn't know the answer. If you'll read back a few posts, you'll find WolfDreamer's post.

No one said anything about it identifying the killer, IIRC.

ETA: My post was #1288, if that helps you any.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

We have the death penalty here in SD and we don't have the crimes that other states have. We just executed one that raped an 8 year old 22 years ago and while he was raping the poor little thing he was stabbing her at the same time. Maybe it will take harsher laws being implemented to get this people to think twice about what their doing.

Well... I tend to think twice about the DP being a deterrent. It could be, tho...
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

I have found it rather interesting for a long time just why some areas do have low crime rates, and others seem to magnets. Stereotypes rarely fit.

(One thing I DO know from experience: don't let the meth labs set up shop...'k, JMO)

 

[SapphireSteel]

I'm lost. Who's blood in the soil are we hoping to find? If it is the girls, how would this help identify the killer? I know I am missing something obvious.

I'm just answering a question.

:dunno:

I don't know what signifcance the asker places on it.

 

[Squeeze]

I'm originally from Texas, so I know there are a lot of people who are for the death penalty.

But if someone is going to do something as terrible as abducting, possibly assaulting, and then killing two little girls, would having the death penalty in Iowa have made any difference? Would he/she/they have thought twice? If the girls were abducted by a pedophile, I doubt he would have controlled his urges and said, wait, I can't do this, if I got caught I could get the death penalty.

Perhaps there are some statistics that prove me wrong, but I fail to see how having the death penalty decreases serious crimes. JMO

Didnt I read here that the Perp usually doesn't think they will get caught, so it would be ineffective?

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

As long as there is a chance that an innocent person can be put to death, there should be no death penalty. The death penalty(IMO) is a terrible thing. Those most likely to be put to death wrongfully are poor African American males. Thank goodness for organizations like "the Innocence Project" for trying to right some of the wrongs of false convictions based on false confessions, false witness statements and false identifications.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Didnt I read here that the Perp usually doesn't think they will get caught, so it would be ineffective?

It surely is. The DP is only scary for ordinary honest people.

It hasn't worked as a deterrent anytime over the last 300 years so there's no reason to believe it would start working now.

:dunno:

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I'm lost. Who's blood in the soil are we hoping to find? If it is the girls, how would this help identify the killer? I know I am missing something obvious.

I think, originally, it was merely to do with how such might help determine COD in this case and if after such a long time, it would even be there at all, but also just curiosity over how such things... work overall.

 

[MNDad]

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

 

[iamnotagolem]

But this would be near 7 bridges, not Meyers lake. People would remember shots fired around Meyers lake.

I don't understand what you are saying. Why would there be shots at Meyers Lake? Sorry I probably am just not following.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Is there a store of some kind on the road to this place, close to the road
to this place ... you get my drift ... with a video taping machine ? Tapes
saved? Im betting LE is looking into this - even a priovate home with a
video taping of an entrance which might cover part of a road beyond ...

Well, um, let's see, from July 13th to December 5th is 145 days. Somewhere around 3,450-ish hours. That's a lot of video storage for ANY surveillance system.

 

[iamnotagolem]

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

Because LE has given us nothing to discuss so we discuss what we think might have happened and various scenarios that probably don't matter.

 

[SapphireSteel]

As long as there is a chance that an innocent person can be put to death, there should be no death penalty. The death penalty(IMO) is a terrible thing. Those most likely to be put to death wrongfully are poor African American males. Thank goodness for organizations like "the Innocence Project" for trying to right some of the wrongs of false convictions based on false confessions, false witness statements and false identifications.

This is so refreshing to read.

Finally someone who shares my views.

The DP is inhumane and only applies to poor people.

It's archaic and disregards every morality or compassion we have, ironic in such a religious country.

The US also practices it illegally in the eyes of the rest of the world as it violates the Geneva Convention protocols.

 

[SapphireSteel]

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

What happens is this.

Someone asks a question.

Someone who thinks they know the answer, replies.

A third party disagrees.

A fourth party has a different opinion again.

The original question is totally obliterated in the persuant confusion and the entire thing ends up with someone like you asking what the hell it's all about. :lol:

Rinse, repeat.

I notice it happens when we are all fired up (like now, the day of Elizabeth's Celebration) and have absolutely nothing new to go on or to chew over.

It also coincides somewhat with cocktail hour

ETA: I'm always surprised how much I learn during these seemingly irrelevant detours.

 

[georger]

would it be possible for blood to still be in the soil.

No one said anything about it identifying the killer, IIRC.

Well yes, including products of blood, depending on the amount of time,
rain, and a host of other factors. Blood also dripped down around the
edges to the bottoms of leaves and the like. The FBI will do (probably did)
some routine testing in the area looking for bio products. Lab testing will
determine who the specimens belong to if anything was found ...

But evidence of this kind will be closely guarded on the premise it would
wind up at trial.

Forensic people were there for a long period of time into the next day ..

 

[TeenyTaurus]

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

As far as I read them all to basically be, all of the above was pure general speculation, indirectly related to THIS case, and more like "I wonder how someone might see a person at a distance...", "What are the chances of someone reporting something like gunshots in an area...", "What kinds of things could be collected as evidence IF such and such were to occur..." They were never started by anything reported. Just good ol' Websleuthers thinking about things, learning about things, debating potential scenarios in general, 'tis all. NOT in any real DIRECT application to this case.

 

[Whisperer]

As long as there is a chance that an innocent person can be put to death, there should be no death penalty. The death penalty(IMO) is a terrible thing. Those most likely to be put to death wrongfully are poor African American males. Thank goodness for organizations like "the Innocence Project" for trying to right some of the wrongs of false convictions based on false confessions, false witness statements and false identifications.

...Gosh, the ones I've seen executed out here were white. I will have to check and see if I am correct because I'm going from memory. It is generally the white males that commit more heinous crimes. At least that is the way it used to be. As the Caucasian race dies out, it will be interesting to watch what happens with the DP.

I think people picture a black male as the ones being put to death for their crimes. I'm just not sure that holds up in the West. IIRC, it didnt appear that way in California.

 

[Marilynilpa]

There have been a lot of conversation about Lyrics size and when menstrual cycles start, gun shots and blood in soil and I don't want to be snarky, but I am lost on the significance of either conversation. I am just feeling that I am missing the importance of these. There has been no reports of a gun being used, I don't know what blood of the girls in the soil would prove and Lyric was obviously a kid. I'm not saying these aren't valid conversations; I just am not following and want to understand why so much has been posted on these topics so I can play along.

Did you read my post #1288, which bumped up WolfDreamer's post? A simple question was asked. There was no major importance to it, just one of the random questions that pop up from time to time.

No one said blood in the soil would "prove" anything, a poster just wanted to know if it would be still be detectable. And a couple of people were kind enough to provide their insights.

As to menstrual cycles, Lyric's size, gun shots, etc., there have been way too many posts to summarize here. All I can suggest is go back to where the posts began yesterday, and follow from there. Or, as I did, just skip over the menstrual posts, LOL.

 

[georger]

Well, um, let's see, from July 13th to December 5th is 145 days. Somewhere around 3,450-ish hours. That's a lot of video storage for ANY surveillance system.

I know that. Still you look and ask!

One of my concerns is, if this was simple, it would already be solved with
perp(s) in jail. That does not appear to be the trend so far ... so you dig
and cover all bases.

These girls are worth it! On the off chance there might be some evidence somewhere, you
look and ask - we dont have the autopsy - the 3,450-ish hours could boil down to 6-8 hours or 24-48 hours between a few dates .

 

[Marilynilpa]

As far as I read them all to basically be, all of the above was pure general speculation, indirectly related to THIS case, and more like "I wonder how someone might see a person at a distance...", "What are the chances of someone reporting something like gunshots in an area...", "What kinds of things could be collected as evidence IF such and such were to occur..." They were never started by anything reported. Just good ol' Websleuthers thinking about things, learning about things, debating potential scenarios in general, 'tis all. NOT in any real DIRECT application to this case.

Yep, exactly. Just Websleuthers doing their thing!!