IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[GrainneDhu]

I think LE had a totally different theory on what was going on until the bodies were found. I think that made them take a new stance. It's not that they weren't looking at every possible scenario before but I believe they were leaning in a different direction.
Though I am not married to any theory, I have been leaning towards a local man cruising after work or on his day off to abduct a child. He may be known to the family just due to the fact it is a small town. The girls may have known him just because they had seen him in the area before.
I think he lured the girls to approach his vehicle and snatched them. I'm hoping there will be dna on the girls clothing or fibers or something. It is surprising how advanced testing for dna can be even when time has past and the elements have done their thing.
The area the girls were found in also opened up new clues as to the killer being a hunter and his possible location or areas he ventures to. I think it reinforces the theory of a local.
That makes me think of a white male. Most killers are male and they usually kill within their own race, especially if it is sexually motivated.
He's local.
He's at least late 20's and has his own vehicle. This doesn't seem like a teen with limits on his use of a vehicle and school and a curfew.
He's employed. This is a crime that seems to be the work of an organized killer. No hasty dumping of the bodies and even possible staging of the bikes. He would be stable enough to work and need a job to pay for his residence and vehicle.
His vehicle is a van or older SUV. Nothing that stands out as new and large enough to hide victims in.
Not particularly clean cut or good looking as I think he doesn't have much luck with women and doesn't worry about his hygiene because of it.
He's either not married or has a marriage where he is dominate. That's just my armchair profiling. It leaves most everyone as a suspect.

BBM

I agree with much of the above, except for the statement I bolded.

It used to be thought that perps stayed within their racial group in committing crimes. That is no longer the case. It turns out that was true until about 1985 but increasingly, crime is crossing racial lines. Why? Because inter-racial couples no longer draw the kind of attention they once did. It just doesn't turn many heads for a black person and a white person to be seen together (or white/Asian, black/hispanic, etc).

When I started going out with my first husband, we drew a lot of (sometimes very negative) attention because he's got "German" written all over his face and I am half-Korean. That was in 1978. I vividly remember going to his family reunions and feeling so out of place because almost every person present would draw me aside over the weekend to reassure me that my colour didn't matter to them.

By the time we divorced in the early 90s, no one noticed. In such a short time span, so much had changed.

I, too, doubt the perp is married. If he is, though, I think there's a chance that he's the submissive one in the marriage and no one would ever dream that Ol'MysteryMan would ever do anything to hurt anyone. I'm thinking of someone like Gary Ridgway, whose wife was the more outgoing and perceived to be more dominant than he was.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thank you so much. That was very helpful! I have said since the day the surveillance tape was released that TG's sighting can't possibly be accurate. The question is, was he purposefully deceptive or just mistaken? Given his determination to have his witness account heard (by media, police) and the detailed account he provided (exact time, exact location, exact activities surrounding swerving around the bikes) and his return to the scene the day after the sighting to talk to searchers AGAIN -- I have a really hard time believing he was mistaken.

But we can't talk about why he might be purposefully deceptive..... :banghead:

BBM

JaimeInLA, are you cindersoot in disguise? LOL

I don't think TG was lying, I believe he was mistaken about seeing the bikes on July 13. I feel he may have see two bikes on a different day. JMO

There is one other possibility - perhaps TG is someone who likes attention, who rode on that trail regularly and, after hearing about the missing girls, decides to tell everyone he saw the bikes on the trail that day. I have no reason for thinking this, but I do know that some people will grab at attention.

 

[Marilynilpa]

WATERLOO, Iowa - A federal judge has turned down a request to end the supervised release of one of the mothers of the two young missing cousins whose bodies were found last week.

Misty Morrissey, 35, also known as Misty Cook, the mother of Lyric Cook-Morrissey, has been under supervision in connection with a 2003 methamphetamine conviction since she was released from prison in 2006. The supervised stint is scheduled to end Jan. 30, 2013.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Judg...Remain-on-Supervised-Probation-183957401.html

IMO, this is the best thing for Misty right now. There will be less likelihood of her self-medicating with drugs/alcohol, which is something I've been concerned about. Out of all of the family members, I feel she is the least able to cope with things. JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think LE had a totally different theory on what was going on until the bodies were found. I think that made them take a new stance. It's not that they weren't looking at every possible scenario before but I believe they were leaning in a different direction.
Though I am not married to any theory, I have been leaning towards a local man cruising after work or on his day off to abduct a child. He may be known to the family just due to the fact it is a small town. The girls may have known him just because they had seen him in the area before.
I think he lured the girls to approach his vehicle and snatched them. I'm hoping there will be dna on the girls clothing or fibers or something. It is surprising how advanced testing for dna can be even when time has past and the elements have done their thing.
The area the girls were found in also opened up new clues as to the killer being a hunter and his possible location or areas he ventures to. I think it reinforces the theory of a local.
That makes me think of a white male. Most killers are male and they usually kill within their own race, especially if it is sexually motivated.
He's local.
He's at least late 20's and has his own vehicle. This doesn't seem like a teen with limits on his use of a vehicle and school and a curfew.
He's employed. This is a crime that seems to be the work of an organized killer. No hasty dumping of the bodies and even possible staging of the bikes. He would be stable enough to work and need a job to pay for his residence and vehicle.
His vehicle is a van or older SUV. Nothing that stands out as new and large enough to hide victims in.
Not particularly clean cut or good looking as I think he doesn't have much luck with women and doesn't worry about his hygiene because of it.
He's either not married or has a marriage where he is dominate. That's just my armchair profiling. It leaves most everyone as a suspect.

BBM,
Respectfully, I disagree. It was the middle of summer so no school in session, it was the middle of the day, so no curfew, parents probably at work, so would they notice the use of a vehicle?

I don't know how young of an age I'd be willing to entertain as a possibility. But I'd say based on being able to drive that 15 is probably the youngest. But I have a hard time with a serial killer in the making taking two victims for his first kill. Especially at 15.

Jmo

 

[iamnotagolem]

Someone mentioned upthread the possibility of a "good dad" type perp. A friend of the girls' dad who draws no suspicion.

So we know that Elizabeth was allowed to ride her bike a couple of blocks away to friends' houses. Maybe the girls headed to a nearby house of a friend to say hi. Maybe the friend wasn't home and the dad was.....

 

[SoBeCzar]

BBM,
Respectfully, I disagree. It was the middle of summer so no school in session, it was the middle of the day, so no curfew, parents probably at work, so would they notice the use of a vehicle?

I don't know how young of an age I'd be willing to entertain as a possibility. But I'd say based on being able to drive that 15 is probably the youngest. But I have a hard time with a serial killer in the making taking two victims for his first kill. Especially at 15.

Jmo

This has the feel of someone older. Probably over 30. I mentioned before how Jessica Ridgeways killer hastily dumped her remains not far from where she was abducted and her home. I thought then it was someone young. This killer traveled a ways to the body site. It seems like this was an area he had driven to many times before. Also the crime just makes me think of a perv that has been thinking about doing something like this for a long time and had already thought out how to lure or snatch a child and where to leave the body. I get the impression of a man that has got too friendly with children before and may be sort of a loner without many friends. I'm not seeing panic in any part of this crime. I think that comes with a more mature killer.

 

[roseofsharon]

BBM

JaimeInLA, are you cindersoot in disguise? LOL

I don't think TG was lying, I believe he was mistaken about seeing the bikes on July 13. I feel he may have see two bikes on a different day. JMO

There is one other possibility - perhaps TG is someone who likes attention, who rode on that trail regularly and, after hearing about the missing girls, decides to tell everyone he saw the bikes on the trail that day. I have no reason for thinking this, but I do know that some people will grab at attention.

IIRC, (can't find the link at this time) didn't TG say he saw the two kids' bikes laying on the trail, had to swerve to miss them (paraphrasing), but we later learned that LC's bike was an adult bike, so what bikes did TG actually see. There is no mistaken kids' bikes, but the distinction between a kid's bike and an adult bike is perfectly clear.

IMO

 

[cindersoot]

The timing is extremely tight if Mr G's sighting of the bikes is correct.

I have a feeling it is.

The dogs confirmed the girls were there...or at least, that the girl's scent was there.

That either implies that they got to the lake, or, someone went to a great deal of trouble to intercept them on the way then arrange the scene to appear that the girls got to the lake.

Considering the placement of the purse and the comments of Deputy Abben, the staging suggestion is about the only thing that makes to me. Staging a scene seems far fetched but is actually very common in crimes of this sort.

All Mr G saw was the bikes. It is entirely possible the perp/s were still on the scene, possibly the girls too, just hiding while he went by.

:cow:

Oh don't get me started....hehehehehehe.:floorlaugh:

 

[chelsea6]

I would be surprised, though, to discover that someone high on the food chain was transacting any deals in Evansdale.

Even if there were, those guys are not stupid. They know that if they make two little girls go poof, it will draw all sorts of LE attention that they don't want. To me, it's the same reasoning I used to rule out human trafficking: it's just not a viable business model.

If meth was involved in this crime, I expect it to be a user who was also a traveller, who came into town, committed the crime and left. While it would take a lot of luck for such a person to find the two known crime scenes, well, stranger things have happened.

It's only in fiction where things have to make sense.

Plus anybody could come flying around the back corner of Loftys and they'd be stuck. Not being able to turn around as its one lane. As you can see in the picture not a good place for a drug transaction Imo anyway.

 

[cindersoot]

IIRC, (can't find the link at this time) didn't TG say he saw the two kids' bikes laying on the trail, had to swerve to miss them (paraphrasing), but we later learned that LC's bike was an adult bike, so what bikes did TG actually see. There is no mistaken kids' bikes, but the distinction between a kid's bike and an adult bike is perfectly clear.

IMO

Hey, quit talking behind my back. : )

 

[Marilynilpa]

IIRC, (can't find the link at this time) didn't TG say he saw the two kids' bikes laying on the trail, had to swerve to miss them (paraphrasing), but we later learned that LC's bike was an adult bike, so what bikes did TG actually see. There is no mistaken kids' bikes, but the distinction between a kid's bike and an adult bike is perfectly clear.

IMO

About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

BBM

I think the wording is open to interpretation. It could mean he saw the bikes of the two kids (Lyric and Lizzie), or it could mean he saw two kids bikes (as opposed to adult bikes).

 

[threecrazykids]

So if TG didn't see the girls bikes, then whose bikes did he see? I don't think he saw them a different day, I think he saw the girls bikes...but if not, then who did they belong to...two different girls who happened to be in the same area at the same time that no one saw them either?

I honestly believe that if those bikes didn't belong to the girls we would know that the owners of those 2 bikes would have been identified. And not necessarily through LE in the media, but between the family talking to the media, the FB pages where family members are commenting, etc.

If the bikes didn't belong to the 2 girls then those 2 bike riders would either be the killers, or those bike riders HAD to have seen something...be it the perp, the girls, etc.

 

[cindersoot]

So if TG didn't see the girls bikes, then whose bikes did he see? I don't think he saw them a different day, I think he saw the girls bikes...but if not, then who did they belong to...two different girls who happened to be in the same area at the same time that no one saw them either?

I honestly believe that if those bikes didn't belong to the girls we would know that the owners of those 2 bikes would have been identified. And not necessarily through LE in the media, but between the family talking to the media, the FB pages where family members are commenting, etc.

If the bikes didn't belong to the 2 girls then those 2 bike riders would either be the killers, or those bike riders HAD to have seen something...be it the perp, the girls, etc.

:great::rocker:

 

[Marilynilpa]

Oh don't get me started....hehehehehehe.:floorlaugh:

:seeya: Missed seeing you here last night.

Yes, once again we are discussing TG.

 

[cindersoot]

:seeya: Missed seeing you here last night.

Yes, once again we are discussing TG.

I can't, one peep and I'm back in the naughty chair.:jail:

 

[tlcya]

I think LE had a totally different theory on what was going on until the bodies were found. I think that made them take a new stance. It's not that they weren't looking at every possible scenario before but I believe they were leaning in a different direction.
Though I am not married to any theory, I have been leaning towards a local man cruising after work or on his day off to abduct a child. He may be known to the family just due to the fact it is a small town. The girls may have known him just because they had seen him in the area before.
I think he lured the girls to approach his vehicle and snatched them. I'm hoping there will be dna on the girls clothing or fibers or something. It is surprising how advanced testing for dna can be even when time has past and the elements have done their thing.
The area the girls were found in also opened up new clues as to the killer being a hunter and his possible location or areas he ventures to. I think it reinforces the theory of a local.
That makes me think of a white male. Most killers are male and they usually kill within their own race, especially if it is sexually motivated.
He's local.
He's at least late 20's and has his own vehicle. This doesn't seem like a teen with limits on his use of a vehicle and school and a curfew.
He's employed. This is a crime that seems to be the work of an organized killer. No hasty dumping of the bodies and even possible staging of the bikes. He would be stable enough to work and need a job to pay for his residence and vehicle.
His vehicle is a van or older SUV. Nothing that stands out as new and large enough to hide victims in.
Not particularly clean cut or good looking as I think he doesn't have much luck with women and doesn't worry about his hygiene because of it.
He's either not married or has a marriage where he is dominate. That's just my armchair profiling. It leaves most everyone as a suspect.

Your armchair profile aligns with mine although I suspect he is early to mid 20s and will add that I think this is his first murder crime but he probably has multiple more petty arrests and he has molested before if this was a sexually motivated crime.

I think he does not fare well with females in his peer group and tends to try to hook up with teen females as they are more llkely to find him impressive (older, vehicle, job, etc.)

 

[cindersoot]

I just thought of something. Mr. TG told me that, " the bikes were laying ACROSS the trail". Now if the bikes were laying across the trail, then how did he swerve around them? The trail is about 6 ft across and a bike is ? ft across, so that leaves how much room to swerve around?

 

[GrainneDhu]

View attachment 28647

Plus anybody could come flying around the back corner of Loftys and they'd be stuck. Not being able to turn around as its one lane. As you can see in the picture not a good place for a drug transaction Imo anyway.

It's really better to stick to crowded places, like Wal-Mart parking lots. The police don't look twice at people or vehicles in crowded parking lots but someone in or coming out of that little alley would automatically stick out.

 

[SapphireSteel]

About 4 p.m. the youngsters’ bikes and Collins’ purse were found on the south side of Meyers Lake. Ted Gamerdinger of Waterloo, a bicyclist who said he often rides the Evansdale Nature Trail, has previously told The Courier he saw the two kids’ bikes on the trail at about 12:20 p.m., but no sign of the children.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Surv...nown-Sighting-of-Missing-Girls-163897346.html

BBM

I think the wording is open to interpretation. It could mean he saw the bikes of the two kids (Lyric and Lizzie), or it could mean he saw two kids bikes (as opposed to adult bikes).

"About" 12.20.

Just like Mr C's sighting was "somewhere between 12 and 1".

What if the witnesses have been asked by LE to be deliberately vague?

It certainly appears to me as though Mr C was about to say a specific time when his wife butted in and widened it (youtube).

:cow:

 

[threecrazykids]

:seeya: Missed seeing you here last night.

Yes, once again we are discussing TG.

I'm not discussing TG...I'm stating that if those bikes were NOT the girls, then I believe we would know they weren't the girls.

And I'm also asking us to sleuth that if those bikes were NOT the girls, then whose would they be? 2 other kids in the area the same time who also didn't see anything?:waitasec: