IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[hollyblue]

Map of bike trails in the area.....and I'm not pointing to only one bicyclist here. Was thinking one way for anyone to access parks in general. A bike trail could be used by walkers/joggers too. The map is a bit sensitive and takes a little time to load and while navigating it.

http://www.iowadot.gov/maps//msp/Bikemap/bikemap2012_front.pdf

 

[nursebeeme]

threecrazykids, if the members alleging to be insiders are verified it is up to individual posters to determine if they believe their accounts. (big if here: they are not yet verified)

As for discussing other rumors from facebook: that is a :nono:

I hope that helps

 

[threecrazykids]

threecrazykids, if the members alleging to be insiders are verified it is up to individual posters to determine if they believe their accounts. (big if here: they are not yet verified)

As for discussing other rumors from facebook: that is a :nono:

I hope that helps

Got it, THANK YOU!!:great:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not asking anyone to believe anything regarding which route the girls took. I simply had mentioned this apparent sighting that I had heard about and disclosed it to be a rumor which I now realize we are not to discuss.

I also should ask the question then....If Mr. G comes on here and is verified are we to believe and discuss his claimed sighting of the bikes even though LE hasn't confirmed it and included it in their official timeline?

His pic was in the paper, yes...and had apparently informed the Courier of his sighting, BUT if LE isn't including OR confirming it then I don't know why his sighting would be anymore believable than the rumors of the Fareway workers. Because we know his name and it was printed it is to be considered a fact?

I'm not being snarky...I'm really not. I just don't understand why his comments are really going to be anymore believable than anyone else that day IF we continually shift focus to only what LE has CONFIRMED.

Confirmed by LE is the 12:15 sighting and the 3:58 finding of the bikes. Everything else in between LE has stated POSSIBLE. Even the video LE states "may be" the last possible sighting. That confuses me as well.

If you choose to ignore the other rumored sightings it is ok with me. I'm just keeping it in my mind as a possible route since NONE of us can seriously believe we KNOW the route they took. It's all assumption at this point.

Keep in mind everyone, this is my first case so bare with me as I learn the ropes.:blushing:

I agree that none of us can know for sure what route the girls took. But we can extrapolate to a certain extent based on info released by LE. JMO

 

[otto]

I'm not asking anyone to believe anything regarding which route the girls took. I simply had mentioned this apparent sighting that I had heard about and disclosed it to be a rumor which I now realize we are not to discuss.

I also should ask the question then....If Mr. G comes on here and is verified are we to believe and discuss his claimed sighting of the bikes even though LE hasn't confirmed it and included it in their official timeline?

His pic was in the paper, yes...and had apparently informed the Courier of his sighting, BUT if LE isn't including OR confirming it then I don't know why his sighting would be anymore believable than the rumors of the Fareway workers. Because we know his name and it was printed it is to be considered a fact?

I'm not being snarky...I'm really not. I just don't understand why his comments are really going to be anymore believable than anyone else that day IF we continually shift focus to only what LE has CONFIRMED.

Confirmed by LE is the 12:15 sighting and the 3:58 finding of the bikes. Everything else in between LE has stated POSSIBLE. Even the video LE states "may be" the last possible sighting. That confuses me as well.

If you choose to ignore the other rumored sightings it is ok with me. I'm just keeping it in my mind as a possible route since NONE of us can seriously believe we KNOW the route they took. It's all assumption at this point.

Keep in mind everyone, this is my first case so bare with me as I learn the ropes.:blushing:

I think we also have to include the 2:00 PM sighting by the "runner".

" Authorities are still searching for anyone who may have been at Meyers Lake before 3 p.m. on July 13, the day two cousins vanished from the community.

...

There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

"On Friday, July 13, 2012, Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook went for a bike ride in their hometown of Evansdale, Iowa, a small town that borders the eastern side of Waterloo, Iowa. The girls were seen riding their bikes at 12:30 p.m. that day. At approximately 2:00 p.m., their bikes were found near a gate on the trail that goes around Meyers Lake. Elizabeth and Lyric are still missing."

http://www.iowa.gov/odcp/docs/missingIowagirls.pdf[/QUOTE]

 

[hollyblue]

I'm not asking anyone to believe anything regarding which route the girls took. I simply had mentioned this apparent sighting that I had heard about and disclosed it to be a rumor which I now realize we are not to discuss.

I also should ask the question then....If Mr. G comes on here and is verified are we to believe and discuss his claimed sighting of the bikes even though LE hasn't confirmed it and included it in their official timeline?

His pic was in the paper, yes...and had apparently informed the Courier of his sighting, BUT if LE isn't including OR confirming it then I don't know why his sighting would be anymore believable than the rumors of the Fareway workers. Because we know his name and it was printed it is to be considered a fact?

I'm not being snarky...I'm really not. I just don't understand why his comments are really going to be anymore believable than anyone else that day IF we continually shift focus to only what LE has CONFIRMED.

Confirmed by LE is the 12:15 sighting and the 3:58 finding of the bikes. Everything else in between LE has stated POSSIBLE. Even the video LE states "may be" the last possible sighting. That confuses me as well.

If you choose to ignore the other rumored sightings it is ok with me. I'm just keeping it in my mind as a possible route since NONE of us can seriously believe we KNOW the route they took. It's all assumption at this point.

Keep in mind everyone, this is my first case so bare with me as I learn the ropes.:blushing:

All insiders posting info is up to the reader to decide if they believe it or not. They are just verified of who they are. We had many recently on a case in NH.....you talk about points of view!!!

I'm baring with you.....been there too. :seeya:

 

[RNER]

You make a good point, but let me counter with this. If LE questioned two Fareway employees who were out on a cigarette break, it seems to me LE would have emphasized the importance of them remaining quiet about what they saw. After all, as you said, LE would not want the media to get their hands on those two witnesses.

And yet, at least one family member of a (supposed) witness has been on FB since practically day one, talking about it. If this witness was so critical to solving the case, I doubt his/her family would be talking about it on FB. I'd be scared to death the perp would come after my loved one at Fareway, and I would do everything I could to keep him/her safe. JMO Unless the family member just wanted to bask in the limelight, in which case I would question their integrity and the comments they made. Again, JMO.

I'll go with what little we've been given by LE and leave the FB rumors alone.

I absolutely agree...based on being the family member of a "critical witness" to a victim of a kidnapping/murder, in which suspects have been arrested, but not tried yet.

My family member was advised by LE to not discuss certain details of the case with anyone, and was advised what to discuss with close family members and friends. This was not only to protect the integrity of the investigation/trial, but for safetey and protection from media and others associated with the case.

In my particular situation, LE worked strongly with Media to safeguard specifics about the case, withheld information, and even released information that was altered in order to protect the case and witnesses. Suspects are in custody, and many details, such as cause of death, motive, planning, witness identification and statements have not been released to the public, yet it all exists.

I know each case is different, but I strongly believe (based on my personal experience) that in the case of Lyric and Elizabeth there is a suspect, he/she may already be in custody for something else or under the watchful eye of LE, evidence will lead to further charges against the suspect, witnesses testimony and evidence exists, but has not been made public and LE/media releases information that has been changed or released to protect the integrity of the investigation.

 

[threecrazykids]

I think we also have to include the 2:00 PM sighting by the "runner".

" Authorities are still searching for anyone who may have been at Meyers Lake before 3 p.m. on July 13, the day two cousins vanished from the community.

...

There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

"On Friday, July 13, 2012, Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook went for a bike ride in their hometown of Evansdale, Iowa, a small town that borders the eastern side of Waterloo, Iowa. The girls were seen riding their bikes at 12:30 p.m. that day. At approximately 2:00 p.m., their bikes were found near a gate on the trail [/B]that goes around Meyers Lake. Elizabeth and Lyric are still missing."

http://www.iowa.gov/odcp/docs/missingIowagirls.pdf

[/QUOTE]


Crap...I keep forgetting the stinkin' jogger at 2:00.:floorlaugh: Now that one wasn't confirmed by LE though, right? I'm still wondering if this isn't the same person Aunt Tammy (in her transcript with NG) said she spoke to. If memory serves me correctly she stated she had started asking random people if they'd seen the girls and someone said they'd seen them riding east on the trail.

Editing: No...there has to be 2 people then...the person who found the bikes at 2 said they were at the gate and no girls. But, someone according to Aunt Tammy said the person's name had been given to LE who had claimed to see them.

Also...if the bikes were found at 2:00 by the gate, then why are using the 3:58 time? If this person could pinpoint the time of day he saw the bikes and it was at 2:00 (but no girls) then that to me indicates they were gone by this time and the 3:58 second finding of the bikes really isn't going to help seal up an abduction time...am I correct? Sounds to me like they were gone already at 2:00.

 

[hollyblue]

Originally Posted by threecrazykids

Crap...I keep forgetting the stinkin' jogger at 2:00.:floorlaugh: Now that one wasn't confirmed by LE though, right? I'm still wondering if this isn't the same person Aunt Tammy (in her transcript with NG) said she spoke to. If memory serves me correctly she stated she had started asking random people if they'd seen the girls and someone said they'd seen them riding east on the trail.

I wonder if this is the same person maybe?


Also...if the bikes were found at 2:00 by the gate, then why are using the 3:58 time? If this person could pinpoint the time of day he saw the bikes and it was at 2:00 (but no girls) then that to me indicates they were gone by this time and the 3:58 second finding of the bikes really isn't going to help seal up an abduction time...am I correct? Sounds to me like they were gone already at 2:00.

[/quote]
Don't think it was same person. The guy at 2PM saw the bikes, but not the girls. The person Misty asked saw the girls riding east. LE was asking anyone who saw the girls before 3PM to call them....so I'm thinking they were trying to close the timeline a bit. LE arrived on scene at 3PM....Heather went to the station at 2:47PM.

 

[Squeeze]

Here's what http://evansdalesearch.com/ said for those who cannot pull it up:

Tuesday - July 17th
Day 5

9:00 A.M. - No further information has been released to the public. The Meyers Lake is still draining inch-by-inch. In the past this process has taken 2-3 days.

11:00 A.M. - Authorities tape off a large perimeter around Meyers Lake to aid in their search efforts.

4:00 P.M. News Conference - The police have zero leads and are at a standstill. They will continue to drain Meyers Lake but no idea how long it will take. Several girls did come forth and witness seeing both girls that afternoon. The dogs used scent pad samples taken from the girls' shoes and picked up a scent trail, but Breault couldn't say what, if anything, it led investigators to. Tips from all over are coming in about the girls and those leads are being followed. Officers are still on footer and interviewing people within the community.

Then shouldn't this info be in the transcript of the press conference??

 

[JaimeInLA]

Crap...I keep forgetting the stinkin' jogger at 2:00.:floorlaugh: Now that one wasn't confirmed by LE though, right? I'm still wondering if this isn't the same person Aunt Tammy (in her transcript with NG) said she spoke to. If memory serves me correctly she stated she had started asking random people if they'd seen the girls and someone said they'd seen them riding east on the trail.

Editing: No...there has to be 2 people then...the person who found the bikes at 2 said they were at the gate and no girls. But, someone according to Aunt Tammy said the person's name had been given to LE who had claimed to see them.

Also...if the bikes were found at 2:00 by the gate, then why are using the 3:58 time? If this person could pinpoint the time of day he saw the bikes and it was at 2:00 (but no girls) then that to me indicates they were gone by this time and the 3:58 second finding of the bikes really isn't going to help seal up an abduction time...am I correct? Sounds to me like they were gone already at 2:00.

Aunt Tammy said she spoke to a fisherman who saw the girls. The police have never verified the fisherman.

 

[Squeeze]

BBM

Unfortunately, not everyone on FB tells the truth. That's why here on WS, anything from FB is considered to be rumor unless it is supported by MSM or statements from LE.

Well, yes, technically it is rumor, but that doesn't mean we can't assume that it's not truth.

Obviously we have to interject our own opinions/speculations and read between the lines, because if we went by what LE has told us and what's reported in the MSM (which is not always correct), then we would have solved this case by now.

My main point is that we cannot assume that just because LE hasn't confirmed, doesn't mean that this information is not true or some other evidence doesn't exist. They didn't release the information on how Evelyn Miller died and if she was clothed, but yet they obviously knew the answer to that question.

 

[otto]

Crap...I keep forgetting the stinkin' jogger at 2:00.:floorlaugh: Now that one wasn't confirmed by LE though, right? I'm still wondering if this isn't the same person Aunt Tammy (in her transcript with NG) said she spoke to. If memory serves me correctly she stated she had started asking random people if they'd seen the girls and someone said they'd seen them riding east on the trail.

Editing: No...there has to be 2 people then...the person who found the bikes at 2 said they were at the gate and no girls. But, someone according to Aunt Tammy said the person's name had been given to LE who had claimed to see them.

Also...if the bikes were found at 2:00 by the gate, then why are using the 3:58 time? If this person could pinpoint the time of day he saw the bikes and it was at 2:00 (but no girls) then that to me indicates they were gone by this time and the 3:58 second finding of the bikes really isn't going to help seal up an abduction time...am I correct? Sounds to me like they were gone already at 2:00.

The information about the 2:00 confirmed sighting is from the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation report ... so it is very definitely confirmed by investigators. After the search began, searchers (a volunteer fireman) found the bikes at 3:58.

http://www.iowa.gov/odcp/docs/missingIowagirls.pdf

 

[otto]

Well, yes, technically it is rumor, but that doesn't mean we can't assume that it's not truth.

Obviously we have to interject our own opinions/speculations and read between the lines, because if we went by what LE has told us and what's reported in the MSM (which is not always correct), then we would have solved this case by now.

My main point is that we cannot assume that just because LE hasn't confirmed, doesn't mean that this information is not true or some other evidence doesn't exist. They didn't release the information on how Evelyn Miller died and if she was clothed, but yet they obviously knew the answer to that question.

Publishing the last known location of a missing person is extremely important in a missing person's investigation. Publishing the manner of death and condition of the remains is not important except during trial.

 

[Squeeze]

Publishing the last known location of a missing person is extremely important in a missing person's investigation. Publishing the manner of death and condition of the remains is not important except during trial.

But again, we don't know if this was the last known location. It might have been the same day, but in the morning.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Well, yes, technically it is rumor, but that doesn't mean we can't assume that it's not truth.

Obviously we have to interject our own opinions/speculations and read between the lines, because if we went by what LE has told us and what's reported in the MSM (which is not always correct), then we would have solved this case by now.

My main point is that we cannot assume that just because LE hasn't confirmed, doesn't mean that this information is not true or some other evidence doesn't exist. They didn't release the information on how Evelyn Miller died and if she was clothed, but yet they obviously knew the answer to that question.

BBM

I agree that just because LE hasn't confirmed something doesn't mean it isn't true. But for the purposes of our discussions here on WS, we have to abide by the rules. FB comments and unsubstantiated rumors are not to be discussed.

 

[otto]

But again, we don't know if this was the last known location. It might have been the same day, but in the morning.

The girls went for a bike ride at about 11:30. They were riding where they were allowed to be until about 12:30, when Wylma became concerned because she could no longer see the children. That doesn't allow for the possibility that the children were anywhere except where they were allowed to be (not a couple of blocks away at a grocery store). At 12:15 they were where they were supposed to be, and there is information that at 12:23 they were where they were supposed to be. This doesn't leave any room for the girls to be where they were not supposed to be at any time prior to 12:23 ... and at that time they were going East.

It seems to me that what is important is the last known sighting of the girls. Wylma last saw the girls riding their bikes towards the parking lot at the old post office. After that time, the girls were seen riding East on Brovan Blvd. That is the last known confirmed sighting of the girls. They were not heading towards Meyers Lake, and they were not heading towards the Evansdale Nature Trail that connects with Lafayette. They were heading East towards River Forest Road. Hypothetically, if someone behind a store told the children to ride on the Evansdale Nature Trail, clearly the children ignored that information because they were last seen a few blocks away going in the opposite direction.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Aunt Tammy said she spoke to a fisherman who saw the girls. The police have never verified the fisherman.

Sorry, JaimeInLA, but your comment is incorrect. Tammy said she saw a boy who was fishing, and asked him how long he'd been there. He said he'd been there for a while, but he had not seen the girls. So there would be no need for LE to verify his statement.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

 

[Marilynilpa]

Then shouldn't this info be in the transcript of the press conference??

Sure. Have you seen a transcript of the press conference of July 17th and not found that comment in there? I haven't searched for the transcript, I just relied upon what MSM reported.

ETA: I cannot find an active link to the July 17 press conference. If you have a transcript for that day, please provide a link.

 

[nikb]

Sorry, JaimeInLA, but your comment is incorrect. Tammy said she saw a boy who was fishing, and asked him how long he'd been there. He said he'd been there for a while, but he had not seen the girls. So there would be no need for LE to verify his statement.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

There was a little boy fishing, and he had been there a long time. I asked him as well, when I first approached and started asking random people. I said, "Did you see two little girls on a bicycle? He said "No". I said, "How long have you been here?" He said, "A long time."

Thanks for finding the quote, I was just about to go looking for it. Something about this has always bothered me. Can't put my finger on what, but it's bothered me.

I wish we knew what "a long time" means in this boy's mind.