IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Marilynilpa]

Not sure, but I'm looking for something. So far I have found this:

http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/07/11/appeals-court-orders-review-of-two-teen-murder-sentences/

One of these crimes occurred in 1985, and one in 1988.

I'll keep looking.

ETA: I think I've found it, but nothing I can link. For those who are interested, the case is State of Iowa v. Brown, August 1988. DNA evidence admitted. Defendant convicted of first-degree murder.

Now I'll try to find newspaper articles.

This is not be the right case, sorry. If I find something, I'll post it.

 

[Arod]

In the early days of the investigation I recall watching coverage on KWWL. The reporter specifically stated she was told that the purse and cell phone looked as though somebody had set them down as opposed to being thrown over the fence.I think this makes the staging theory more plausible and also makes me think two perps were involved

 

[carbuff]

To respectfully respond ... jealousy (of what) hate (why), revenge (for what) ... they were only very young children and as far as thrill, just moo, but thrill murder would be more spontaneous, a fantasy of a psychopath and I think these murders were well planned, but I am no expert, so again just moo.

Speaking hypothetically here, and in generalities--I'm not arguing for any of these as a theory at this point.

Hate or jealousy would probably be for the parents, with the killer using the girls as a means to get to them.

Many psychopaths plan their kills meticulously. I'm not convinced this crime was planned, either. It could have been a crime of opportunity, where the killer was looking for someone and not one but two girls had the bad luck to wander past.

 

[iamnotagolem]

To respectfully respond ... jealousy (of what) hate (why), revenge (for what) ... they were only very young children and as far as thrill, just moo, but thrill murder would be more spontaneous, a fantasy of a psychopath and I think these murders were well planned, but I am no expert, so again just moo.

You asked for motives, I offered some.

Jealousy? Since children were killed, then I'd say someone who wanted to hurt their parents. Someone who was jealous of Heather and Misty.

Hate? Someone who hated the girls parents and who wanted to hurt them deeply, again since misty and heather are sisters, I'd assume the goals would be to hurt them.

Revenge? No clue revenge for something Heather or Misty said or did to them?

Doesn't necessarily have to be heather or misty but if the girls were killed to hurt someone, I'd assume they were the targets.

Eta: that first sentence sounds snarky, it's not meant to be. I was just thinking of motives, I don't know the motive or have a theory on any set one.

 

[Bootsctr]

If anyone can come up with a plausible explanation for how both girls died in an accident, I'd be interested in hearing it. I could see this being a case of poor decision, panic and covering up if only one girl had died, but I can't think of a reasonable explanation for both girls dying in an accident.

What if the girls stumbled upon a drug... a drug that one of the girls might be familiar with as in had seen a family member do this drug. That child then trying to be the older, cooler cousin shows the other girl how to do the drug. The second child follows suit and takes the drug as her cousin shows her. They overdose and are found by a family member who panics and attempts to cover it up.

 

[Bootsctr]

This may not be the right case. If I find something, I'll post it.

Thanks Marilyn. I was just thinking it might be similar to this case, but it probably is not. Thank you for looking and I did read your link. Not sure what to think about the new sentences for those people at all.

 

[Sassy Lassie]

Wondering if it is someone who worked with Elizabeth's father or wanted him to do some work with him;a person known to Elizabeth? He might have seen the girls and asked if the dad was home. Offered a lift home since he was going that way...they knew they were due home so since he had a truck to put the bikes in...seemed like a good idea. Made up a reason to run by his house first, bikes later taken to the lake....

 

[iamnotagolem]

What if the girls stumbled upon a drug... a drug that one of the girls might be familiar with as in had seen a family member do this drug. That child then trying to be the older, cooler cousin shows the other girl how to do the drug. The second child follows suit and takes the drug as her cousin shows her. They overdose and are found by a family member who panics and attempts to cover it up.

My problem with that scenario is that Lyric lived with Heather and Drew, then with Wylma. Yes Misty And Dan have a drug riddled history, but it doesn't mean that Lyric had any knowledge or awareness of it.

I had absolutely no clue that my dad was involved in or doing or selling any kind of drugs until I read about his arrest in the paper. As far as I know he never did them around us kids, nor did any dealing when we were at his house.

 

[carbuff]

People call 911 when there is an accident. An accident is not even in the realm of possibilities, IMO. I see it mentioned in every case. I think it is so hard to believe the cruelty involved in killing children, that every case there is hope that it was an accident.

If they were left alive at 7bridges and died of exposure, I'd be shocked. There are probably half a dozen houses within a mile of where their bodies were found.
We believe they rode their bikes to Meyers lake but couldn't walk 3/4 of a mile to a house after being abandoned? Not likely IMO.

I said I didn't think any of them were likely. Grianne Dhu asked about plausible scenarios, and those were the possibilities I came up with.

The kind of accident that people get rid of a body rather than calling 911 is usually domestic violence, or a bar/gang fight.

That place where they were found is pretty far back from the nearest road, relatively speaking. I can see two young girls getting so disoriented they couldn't find a way out. In the summer, with the heavy undergrowth, they wouldn't be able to see lights through the trees or anything. Especially if they were blindfolded when they were taken in, they might not have known how close they were, or might have been physically unable to reach it if they were injured in the attack.

Again, I don't think it's likely and I'm not going to argue too strenuously in favor of any of them. There are far more likely scenarios.

 

[Bootsctr]

In the early days of the investigation I recall watching coverage on KWWL. The reporter specifically stated she was told that the purse and cell phone looked as though somebody had set them down as opposed to being thrown over the fence.I think this makes the staging theory more plausible and also makes me think two perps were involved

:wagon: Welcome Arod!

 

[janie]

I agree, everything went horribly right for whomever did this. Definitely have been thinking about other motives. From reading here and following this case, is it possible someone overdosed and died from a batch of crank that Dan had manufactured and that person's relative was so angry they took the girls and killed them?

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps that could be expanded to include anger at loss of a friend or family member in ways other than death, like a long prison sentence that took that person away from loved ones?

 

[iamnotagolem]

I said I didn't think any of them were likely. Grianne Dhu asked about plausible scenarios, and those were the possibilities I came up with.

The kind of accident that people get rid of a body rather than calling 911 is usually domestic violence, or a bar/gang fight.

That place where they were found is pretty far back from the nearest road, relatively speaking. I can see two young girls getting so disoriented they couldn't find a way out. In the summer, with the heavy undergrowth, they wouldn't be able to see lights through the trees or anything. Especially if they were blindfolded when they were taken in, they might not have known how close they were, or might have been physically unable to reach it if they were injured in the attack.

Again, I don't think it's likely and I'm not going to argue too strenuously in favor of any of them. There are far more likely scenarios.

Sorry if my post came off argumentative, I didn't intend it that way at all. I agree with you that there are much more likely scenarios.

 

[carbuff]

Sorry if my post came off argumentative, I didn't intend it that way at all. I agree with you that there are much more likely scenarios.

'Saright. I think we're all getting a little touchy here. It's tense and today's LE comments left me with such a sinking feeling, like something really awful is about to go down...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Taken out to the park by older boys wanting to play a mean prank and left there to be frightened in the woods, and died of exposure before anybody came back? Or alternately, the perp raped them and left them the way the Wyoming guy did, and they died of exposure/beating/animals?

SBM

I think this is highly unlikely.

It was the middle of July and nights in Iowa at that time of year do cool off some but not to the point where anyone in normal health would be endangered. Even if they were lost, once night fell, they would have been able to see lights from the various farms around 7 Bridges and all they would have to do is pick a light and walk towards it.

There are isolated reports of large predators in Iowa (mountain lions or wild hogs) but those are such rare events that I really doubt any of them got the girls. We do have coyote in Iowa but they are generally very shy of humans and two girls would not be attacked.

It's possible that they died of beating but then that begs the question, why were they both beaten so badly?

 

[iamnotagolem]

What if it were another close relative? http://www.kwwl.com/story/19127066/uncle-of-missing-girls-hospitalized-apparent-drug-overdose

No offense to you, but it irritates the bejesus out of me when journalists write a story based on their opinion and serve it up to sway their readers. It sounds like that journalist is convinced that the girls death is 100% related to drugs either via Dan or Jeremiah, yet no evidence to back up what they imply.

I don't know if Dan or Jeremiah were involved somehow, but the article just rubs me the wrong way.

I still have a hard time believing that the girls saw Jeremiah doing drugs and decided they'd try it and ODd.

Maybe I'm naive but I just have a hard time believing an 8 & 10 year old would even be willing to try any type of drugs.

 

[borndem]

In the early days of the investigation I recall watching coverage on KWWL. The reporter specifically stated she was told that the purse and cell phone looked as though somebody had set them down as opposed to being thrown over the fence.I think this makes the staging theory more plausible and also makes me think two perps were involved

:welcome6:



to WebSleuths,

Arod!!!!



:greetings:


:rollercoaster:
​

 

[carbuff]

SBM

I think this is highly unlikely.

It was the middle of July and nights in Iowa at that time of year do cool off some but not to the point where anyone in normal health would be endangered. Even if they were lost, once night fell, they would have been able to see lights from the various farms around 7 Bridges and all they would have to do is pick a light and walk towards it.

There are isolated reports of large predators in Iowa (mountain lions or wild hogs) but those are such rare events that I really doubt any of them got the girls. We do have coyote in Iowa but they are generally very shy of humans and two girls would not be attacked.

It's possible that they died of beating but then that begs the question, why were they both beaten so badly?

As part of the sexual assault.

From the clearing where they were found, would they be able to see lights through the trees and heavy undergrowth? It doesn't look like it to me. But if somebody did leave them, they might have assumed the same thing, that the girls would walk out and get help, but not until the perp was well out of the way.

Of course it's highly unlikely.

But it was highly unlikely that two young girls would be kidnapped and murdered in the first place.

 

[nursebeeme]

Folks: I have bumped up the rules about family members ad nauseum since July. I believe my last bump of them was a few pages ago.

No speculation about family members. Period.

 

[nursebeeme]

read this: rules about family members

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

 

[iamnotagolem]

Folks: I have bumped up the rules about family members ad nauseum since July. I believe my last bump of them was a few pages ago.

No speculation about family members. Period.

Sorry. :truce:

In case no one has mentioned it, you are much less scary with your new avatar.