IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Squeeze]

2. He was originally called a "person of interest" yet that terminology was changed later

3. He was at caseys at 2:00 the girls were last seen on Brovan around 12:15, unless he was walking the van alongside his pet turtle, he couldn't have possibly been on forest river rd while the girls were biking through.

Unless there was something LE knows of some other event that was occurring at 2:00.

 

[threecrazykids]

Yes, I'm sure they have. My heart aches for them and all the pain they're going through. I did not mean to imply that they hadn't, or that anybody might be deliberately hiding anything. It was abstract speculation on my part.

No worries...I wasn't jumping off your post, I was just making a general statement about any possible connections. I'm with you...my heart aches for them as well...I'm sure they have endured grueling hours of questions trying to spar their memories of any possible theory they can think of as to who would cause these girls such harm.

I know others do believe in some connection, and that is a valid opinion as well. I just personally feel (as you do) that no one is deliberately hiding anything. I am just baffled by this case (granted it's the first I've ever followed on here) but there is just SO many variables it makes my head spin!

 

[GrainneDhu]

But i have been told that they hurry on current situations dealing with kids murdered or raped. Its the old test and crimes they are slow on getting tested wich is still sad :-(

I'm certain that any forensic testing in connection to the girls has been given top priority.

However, I keep thinking about what a lot of people have posted along the lines of "someone doesn't go from a totally crime free life to abducting and murdering 2 young girls as their first crime." I think there is something to that. I think that whoever did this probably did commit other, less serious, crimes.

Then my mind goes to "what if he has committed sexual assault before but the rape kit hasn't been processed yet?" Even if the owner of the DNA in that hypothetical rape kit hasn't been identified, just knowing that the unknown subject committed a rape somewhere would give investigators more information.

Just as a hypothetical, if LE knew that DNA found on clothing belonging to Elizabeth or Lyric had also been found in a rape case in Illinois or Nebraska, that would give investigators a way to filtre out some of the suspects.

 

[superbee]

It's not possible to go around the lake in a loop. Sending a child alone to search the SE tip of the lake meant driving around to the Maiden Lane area to pick him up. With one child already missing, who in their right mind would do that?

The other girl that was late with Lyric was her 11 year old cousin. They were late and apparently when a parent looked for them at the park where they were allowed to be, the parent could not find them ... so police were called, but just at that moment, Lyric and Tammy's 11 year old daughter walked through the front door. Tammy was probably thinking of "cool" places (like a favorite aunt) that her daughter and Lyric would visit, like the park, the lake ... and it turmed out Lyric and Elizabeth did possibly ride their bikes to the lake. The fact that Lyric went to a park with her older cousin a week earlier and she didn't follow the rules implies that she may have done the same thing with Elizabeth ... perhaps they rode their bikes to the lake.

Perhaps they were last seen at12:11 and the camera was 8 minutes slow in relation to the cyclist's cell phone. So, 12:19 on video heading west behind the Cornbelt Auction. If the cyclist's sighting is accurate, then (children their age cycle at an ave. speed of 9 MPH) it was 8 minutes later at 12:27 that he swerved around their bikes ... so they had already arrived and vanished.

"How long were the family members at the lake before someone went to the police station?"

An hour? I admit to being guilty of letting three hours pass when my 13 year old son was supposed to be with a friend in a safe place. All turned out well.

Skateboard park seems too public for an abduction.

I wasn't thinking of the skateboard park as a place for abduction, but for witnesses. Hopefully some boarders were coming and going from the park that day, and at least one of them saw the 2 girls, and was aware of the time.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

At this point, I'm thinking of people it COULD be with a tie to the family, but not necessarily a close one. Thinking of maybe the older brother of one of the girls' friends? Or the nice guy from church. Someone they would feel comfortable with, but no one that would immediately come to the minds of any family member...just tossing those out there.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I'm certain that any forensic testing in connection to the girls has been given top priority.

However, I keep thinking about what a lot of people have posted along the lines of "someone doesn't go from a totally crime free life to abducting and murdering 2 young girls as their first crime." I think there is something to that. I think that whoever did this probably did commit other, less serious, crimes.

Then my mind goes to "what if he has committed sexual assault before but the rape kit hasn't been processed yet?" Even if the owner of the DNA in that hypothetical rape kit hasn't been identified, just knowing that the unknown subject committed a rape somewhere would give investigators more information.

Just as a hypothetical, if LE knew that DNA found on clothing belonging to Elizabeth or Lyric had also been found in a rape case in Illinois or Nebraska, that would give investigators a way to filtre out some of the suspects.

I agree, GrainneDhu. I thought the very thing about Jerry Sandusky. This man surely didn't begin molesting little boys in mid-life. Surely, there must have been suspicions from earlier on and he just didn't get caught when he was younger. I have a hard time believing that most people capable of abduction/murder of two young girls didn't have noticeable problems beforehand. Anti-social behavior? Problems with authority at school or home? Something.

 

[threecrazykids]

At this point, I'm thinking of people it COULD be with a tie to the family, but not necessarily a close one. Thinking of maybe the older brother of one of the girls' friends? Or the nice guy from church. Someone they would feel comfortable with, but no one that would immediately come to the minds of any family member...just tossing those out there.

My thoughts exactly. I think it's someone they were comfortable with (because sadly, I believe they went willingly).

I know this isn't good to think about but I just think about what those poor girls were thinking if they did know the person who did this to them. Can you even IMAGINE what went through their minds?
"Why are you doing this?"
"Please don't hurt her"
Crying and begging to be let go...

Literally makes me sick to my stomach...I gotta stop thinking about it.

God - PLEASE let it not have ended that way. I pray that either they were chemically subdued or tasered so they had NO idea what happened in their final moments.

 

[Fukiyama]

I am haunted by the unidentified man found in Winneshiek County back in the 1980s. He was found holed up between two round bales of hay. What I found haunting at the time and still do is that he died within sight of the farm house. The farmer whose land he was found on said something along the lines of "I don't understand why he didn't come to the house, we would never turn someone who needed shelter away." Cause of death was exposure... but he didn't have to die that way. He was within a couple hundred yards of help.

That guy has always interested me as well. Just going on what there is at the DCI website, I have always wondered if he met with foul play since getting in between two hay bales strikes me as unusual.

 

[Just Pat 22]

Thank you Pat! I bet this is what LE is waiting on. It would take a while to go through hundreds of hours of video they must have amassed.

Thats exactly what the LE said they had hundered's of video they are going through . I would post the Demoines Registor but I am not familar how to do it .I was supriesed to find it in the paper on my computer . Your very welcome . Pat

 

[iamnotagolem]

That guy has always interested me as well. Just going on what there is at the DCI website, I have always wondered if he met with foul play since getting in between two hay bales strikes me as unusual.

What time of year was it? When people have hypothermia it is common for them to borrow. We saw it in the Stacey English case, she burrowed under a tree.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That guy has always interested me as well. Just going on what there is at the DCI website, I have always wondered if he met with foul play since getting in between two hay bales strikes me as unusual.

At the time, the assumption was that he was taking shelter between them. The ME said he'd probably died about a year previously, so April or May 1985. Whatever happened to him didn't leave any signs of trauma on his bones.

Something from that case that is directly relevant here is that even though his body was skeletonized, his clothing was still in relatively good condition, particularly his boots. It was protected from the sun and somewhat from rain and snow by the round bales.

So it is possible that even if the bodies were skeletons, their clothing may well have been recognisable.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Maybe he was there right as the perp, who I will randomly call Fanny, was returning from 7 Bridges, and stopped at Casey's to hose off her truck. Fanny had to wash down the dust, fill'er up, and high tail it over to the lake to help look for missing girls. Hypothetically and MOO of course.

How could my sweet little Fanny be guilty of such a crime??!!

:cat:

 

[MNDad]

What if the girls stumbled upon a drug... a drug that one of the girls might be familiar with as in had seen a family member do this drug. That child then trying to be the older, cooler cousin shows the other girl how to do the drug. The second child follows suit and takes the drug as her cousin shows her. They overdose and are found by a family member who panics and attempts to cover it up.

That is what I was thinking when I suggested the possibility of an accident.

To save posts, I'll respond to done others here too. I didn't say an accident was likely; I just posed the question "what if". If it were such drug accident that was covered up, I would suspect that not all family members would be aware of it and only the "panicker" and"fixer" in the family with all the answers would know. Again, not likely, but "what if". Just something else to think about since we have nothing else.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What time of year was it? When people have hypothermia it is common for them to borrow. We saw it in the Stacey English case, she burrowed under a tree.

Probably April of 1985. Nights get cool that time of year and snow in early April is possible.

But the puzzling thing is that he was in plain sight of the farm house. Every farm has a light on a pole courtesy of the utility company, so even at night he would have been able to see that there was a house there.

The body was found fully clothed, including two coats (a pile lined coat and a windbreaker over it). That doesn't prove he didn't die of hypothermia but it would have been unusual for him not to have gone through the stage where victims of hypothermia start taking off their own clothes because they feel hot. He was certainly dressed appropriately for a cold night in April.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Maybe the guy in the white van looked like someone who saw the girl's that day talking to them? A witness reported that? Just guessing.

I still think it was the white van theory. I remember all the scanner calls before, MSM reports of attempted abductions and after. I think there's an article or MSM tweet out there about there were 300 or so Chevy Astro? Vans in the county registered but turns out the guys was a Safari, that looks just like the Astro? so that would include even more possibly.

 

[RNER]

Since sleuthing people on WS isnt allowed, If you know their names you can just look them up on iowa courts online.

Artzy

Thanks!
However...there are way way way too many cases for the the male accomplice :jail: and in order to find the details of the case, I have to be registered and pay a $25.00/month fee..........anyone registered willing to take on the task?????????????

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

My thoughts exactly. I think it's someone they were comfortable with (because sadly, I believe they went willingly).

I know this isn't good to think about but I just think about what those poor girls were thinking if they did know the person who did this to them. Can you even IMAGINE what went through their minds?
"Why are you doing this?"
"Please don't hurt her"
Crying and begging to be let go...

Literally makes me sick to my stomach...I gotta stop thinking about it.

God - PLEASE let it not have ended that way. I pray that either they were chemically subdued or tasered so they had NO idea what happened in their final moments.

No. Honestly I can't imagine what they were thinking. At their ages, my biggest worries had more to do with what game we were going to play next and how I was going to sneak my darn peas into the garbage without my mom seeing me. At that age, my cousins and brother were my best friends, daddy was my hero, and I had the best mom on earth. We looked for change so we could buy penny candy and rode our bikes in packs around the neighborhood. When we weren't doing those things, we played pick up games of baseball, soccer or dodgeball in someone's back yard. I never once as a child had a fear of being abducted...until Cheri Mahon disappeared. I had nightmares about her calling out to her mommy and daddy. Lord, that was decades ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. And she is what lead me here. Lizzie reminded me of her. And I didn't realize it until a few days ago. They have never found Cheri. That was in '85. She vanished into thin air never to be seen or heard from again. And she only had to walk 50 feet from her bus to her front door. A bright blue van with a mural painted on the side was always suspected in her disappearance, but they never found it either. Sorry for going O/T. But I've never gotten over it. I was 10 years old.

 

[MNDad]

That is what I was thinking when I suggested the possibility of an accident.

To save posts, I'll respond to done others here too. I didn't say an accident was likely; I just posed the question "what if". If it were such drug accident that was covered up, I would suspect that not all family members would be aware of it and only the "panicker" and"fixer" in the family with all the answers would know. Again, not likely, but "what if". Just something else to think about since we have nothing else.

Just got caught up and read the nurse's warning. I wasn't trying to sleuth the family of intentionally committing the crime, but this is probably too close to crossing the line, so I am fine with no one responding and keeping this thought going. I'll come up with a different theory. Sorry.

 

[georger]

georger, do you mean the Fareway store? The above post is nursebeeme's gentle reminder that we shouldn't be discussing these Facebook-based rumors.

ok - thanks.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Just got caught up and read the nurse's warning. I wasn't trying to sleuth the family of intentionally committing the crime, but this is probably too close to crossing the line, so I am fine with no one responding and keeping this thought going. I'll come up with a different theory. Sorry.

I didn't take your post as trying to sleuth the family. I think we are all grasping at straws at this point. Trying to think outside the box and all.