IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Mjskit]

What if the girls stumbled upon a drug... a drug that one of the girls might be familiar with as in had seen a family member do this drug. That child then trying to be the older, cooler cousin shows the other girl how to do the drug. The second child follows suit and takes the drug as her cousin shows her. They overdose and are found by a family member who panics and attempts to cover it up.

Believable to me. But then the person who found them would have to have known they took the drug or be able to recognize the drug on/near them too. The thing is, if I found one of my children dead from drugs ( be it Rx or illegal) I am calling EMS not hiding bodies.
I noticed on the early videos of the family interviews that most seem calm (only one seems very nervous). IMO

 

[borndem]

Y

Speaking hypothetically here, and in generalities--I'm not arguing for any of these as a theory at this point.

Hate or jealousy would probably be for the parents, with the killer using the girls as a means to get to them.

Many psychopaths plan their kills meticulously. I'm not convinced this crime was planned, either. It could have been a crime of opportunity, where the killer was looking for someone and not one but two girls had the bad luck to wander past.

bbm

Yes, carbuff, makes sense.. If the girls, or maybe just little Lizzie biked around the lake several times a week -- which she didn't -- a psycho could have been lying in wait, and voila! here are 2 little girls, oh boy!! But that's not what we have here.

We just don't know, but what makes the best sense to me is if they were followed by a psychopath, and he approached them with some ruse, as we've discussed...

Such a dayam mystery still.

 

[nursebeeme]

Sorry. :truce:

In case no one has mentioned it, you are much less scary with your new avatar.

hahaha! thanks! (and just as I was getting ready to get out the needle again since the new year's celebration is over)

:nurse:

 

[carbuff]

Y

bbm

Yes, carbuff, makes sense.. If the girls, or maybe just little Lizzie biked around the lake several times a week -- which she didn't -- a psycho could have been lying in wait, and voila! here are 2 little girls, oh boy!! But that's not what we have here.

We just don't know, but what makes the best sense to me is if they were followed by a psychopath, and he approached them with some ruse, as we've discussed...

Such a dayam mystery still.

Well, yeah, the lake doesn't really fit. I totally agree with you about that. That's why I think they bumped into somebody evil somewhere just past where the video camera captured them, and the bikes were staged later.

 

[otto]

Otto A Charris Paulson Assistant Dierctor ofThe Iowa Investigation Wrote an e mail to LE and Enforcement Officials and state employees on Sept 12th2012 in the Demoines Register That They MAY have a video of the girls being abductive a video on the abductors vehicle .Just spotted this today .

I did a search for the article and I get the impression that he is saying that the vehicle must have been seen on surveillance video somewhere, but I don't think anyone knows what sort of vehicle was used.

 

[GrainneDhu]

As part of the sexual assault.

From the clearing where they were found, would they be able to see lights through the trees and heavy undergrowth? It doesn't look like it to me. But if somebody did leave them, they might have assumed the same thing, that the girls would walk out and get help, but not until the perp was well out of the way.

Of course it's highly unlikely.

But it was highly unlikely that two young girls would be kidnapped and murdered in the first place.

I am sorry, I misunderstood your response. I thought you were coming up with scenarios that weren't sexually motivated. Too many crossings of the various posts for me to keep up with!

Iowa is just not the sort of place where people get lost in the forest. Search and rescue call-outs are invariably for small children (under age 5) or people with some sort of serious mental disability, usually Alzheimers. A lifetime of living in Iowa tells me that an 8 year old and a 10 year who were in normal health would be able to figure out how to find help if they were dumped in the woods, even at 7 Bridges. They might end up with blisters, lots of mosquito bites and possibly giardia from drinking surface water but they wouldn't end up dead.

Even by the most brute chance method of simply walking in a straight line, the girls would have hit some type of road within a mile of walking. Iowa is literally covered with a grid of roads outlining every single square mile.

 

[borndem]

hahaha! thanks! (and just as I was getting ready to get out the needle again since the new year's celebration is over)

:nurse:

I like the needle (only yours, please) it's so (said in the nicest and most humble & wimpy way possible, please) you!!

Plunge on, Mz. Bee!!

 

[carbuff]

I am sorry, I misunderstood your response. I thought you were coming up with scenarios that weren't sexually motivated. Too many crossings of the various posts for me to keep up with!

Iowa is just not the sort of place where people get lost in the forest. Search and rescue call-outs are invariably for small children (under age 5) or people with some sort of serious mental disability, usually Alzheimers. A lifetime of living in Iowa tells me that an 8 year old and a 10 year who were in normal health would be able to figure out how to find help if they were dumped in the woods, even at 7 Bridges. They might end up with blisters, lots of mosquito bites and possibly giardia from drinking surface water but they wouldn't end up dead.

Even by the most brute chance method of simply walking in a straight line, the girls would have hit some type of road within a mile of walking. Iowa is literally covered with a grid of roads outlining every single square mile.

That's very interesting to me -- having grown up in Montana and lived in New England, where it's quite common for people of all ages to get lost and not uncommonly die of exposure, even in the summer. I don't even have the concept of walking in a "straight" line, because it's not really possible to do it. I'm going to have to come visit Iowa some time. I'm having a hard time visualizing something that flat.

There was one set of questions about "if not drugs or sexual assault," and there was another about possible accidents. So I poked around some scenarios that might have involved more or less accidental deaths.

I really can't think of anything that's more than distantly possible.

 

[threecrazykids]

NOT sleuthing the family on this...and I hope it's ok to make this comment:

I think it's safe to assume that LE has investigated any obvious revenge, drug, hate, plea bargain, rift, etc. that this entire family can possibly think of as far as acquaintances go. I'm sure this family has endured HOURS of questions regarding ANYONE they can remotely think of who would have a motive to harm these girls (recent or past friends etc.) and I'm sure some have cried themselves to sleep on countless occasions asking God himself "Who would do this to my baby?"

I don't think they know...I really don't.

I think that if this person is arrested it's going to be a surprise to everyone (even if there IS some sort of connection) it won't be anyone they'd ever expect.

 

[SapphireSteel]

NOT sleuthing the family on this...and I hope it's ok to make this comment:

I think it's safe to assume that LE has investigated any obvious revenge, drug, hate, plea bargain, rift, etc. that this entire family can possibly think of as far as acquaintances go. I'm sure this family has endured HOURS of questions regarding ANYONE they can remotely think of who would have a motive to harm these girls (recent or past friends etc.) and I'm sure some have cried themselves to sleep on countless occasions asking God himself "Who would do this to my baby?"

I don't think they know...I really don't.

I think that if this person is arrested it's going to be a surprise to everyone (even if there IS some sort of connection) it won't be anyone they'd ever expect.

Sadly, I doubt everyone will be surprised. Some people appear to have their suspicions including (IMO) LE.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I still think there is a possibility the girls met someone on the Internet who lured them. Imoo

 

[threecrazykids]

Sadly, I doubt everyone will be surprised. Some people appear to have their suspicions including (IMO) LE.

I should clarify...when I say everyone I mean everyone in their family.

I think there are certainly people outside looking in who may not be surprised, but as far as the family I think they are going to be completely blindsided by whomever did this (again...IF there is some sort of connection).

 

[Squeeze]

Exactly right. This is why in my theory that I posted in an earlier thread theorizes that the girls were lured into a home, a garage or a building there in the neighborhood around the home. Lured in, quickly bound or otherwise secured and the bikes very very quickly taken to the lake. Then this person returned to the home/building for the girls and took them to another (third) location. jmo and all that.

Thats my #1 theory, too.

 

[Tennlyn]

I still think there is a possibility the girls met someone on the Internet who lured them. Imoo

Were the girls on the Internet much? I've only been following the case on Websleuths since they were found.

I'm definitely lean towards luring to Meyers Lake, but I just thought it was someone they met in the neighborhood.

 

[carbuff]

NOT sleuthing the family on this...and I hope it's ok to make this comment:

I think it's safe to assume that LE has investigated any obvious revenge, drug, hate, plea bargain, rift, etc. that this entire family can possibly think of as far as acquaintances go. I'm sure this family has endured HOURS of questions regarding ANYONE they can remotely think of who would have a motive to harm these girls (recent or past friends etc.) and I'm sure some have cried themselves to sleep on countless occasions asking God himself "Who would do this to my baby?"

I don't think they know...I really don't.

I think that if this person is arrested it's going to be a surprise to everyone (even if there IS some sort of connection) it won't be anyone they'd ever expect.

Yes, I'm sure they have. My heart aches for them and all the pain they're going through. I did not mean to imply that they hadn't, or that anybody might be deliberately hiding anything. It was abstract speculation on my part.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Were the girls on the Internet much? I've only been following the case on Websleuths since they were found.

I'm definitely lean towards luring to Meyers Lake, but I just thought it was someone they met in the neighborhood.

I think Lyric was known to be online because she had a FB profile. Not too sure how often or how much time was spent on there though. Iirc, both family computers and all family phones were voluntarily given to LE, though. Back in the beginning. I figured if the girls were lured, it took place in person because I think after an examination of the computers, LE would have discovered something.

 

[Nvgirl]

So...we may be waiting awhile?

But i have been told that they hurry on current situations dealing with kids murdered or raped. Its the old test and crimes they are slow on getting tested wich is still sad :-(

 

[Squeeze]

A few things from this:

1. LE has more video tapes than just the CCTV one of the girls (hundreds of hours it sounded like).
2. There is something about this person that drew their attention. Breault says it has nothing to do with the white van. They also state they don't think he's a witness. So what does that leave him? :waitasec:
3. Does LE assume the girls went down River Forest and that is why they are questioning him?? Based on what...just the fact that they were riding "away" from the lake on the snipit of video that was all of 2 seconds long? I pray not...lease: I hope they are looking down every possible route between the Collin's home and that damn lake.

Based on the time of the Cornbelt video, and the timing of the van pulling into Casey's, they probably deduced that the van, whether or not he is considered a perp, would have driven by Brovan and River Forest about the time the girls were there, and therefor may have seen something our someone.

 

[Squeeze]

One thing I have learned from scouring Google Earth, looking at the addresses of all the players in this case, there are A TON of pickup trucks in that area. Here, I'd say 1 in every 30 cars is a pickup truck. There, it looks like close to 1 in 2!!!

Thats probably not too far off. We have a pickup, mini van, and two cars. Most people I know have a truck in their immediate family. And thats what I've envisioned all along, tossing the bikes into the back of a truck.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's very interesting to me -- having grown up in Montana and lived in New England, where it's quite common for people of all ages to get lost and not uncommonly die of exposure, even in the summer. I don't even have the concept of walking in a "straight" line, because it's not really possible to do it. I'm going to have to come visit Iowa some time. I'm having a hard time visualizing something that flat.

There was one set of questions about "if not drugs or sexual assault," and there was another about possible accidents. So I poked around some scenarios that might have involved more or less accidental deaths.

I really can't think of anything that's more than distantly possible.

Iowa isn't flat, ask anyone who has ridden RAGBRAI! But the rolling hills are easily navigable by foot. There are occasional ravines but they are not so frequent as to keep someone from walking out. In fact, one good way to find a way out of the woods would be to stay out of the ravine but follow it. That ravine will inevitably lead to a larger body of water or to a road.

A few people do die of exposure each year but it's usually a secondary cause of death. Primary is their mental impairment or their substance abuse.

I am haunted by the unidentified man found in Winneshiek County back in the 1980s. He was found holed up between two round bales of hay. What I found haunting at the time and still do is that he died within sight of the farm house. The farmer whose land he was found on said something along the lines of "I don't understand why he didn't come to the house, we would never turn someone who needed shelter away." Cause of death was exposure... but he didn't have to die that way. He was within a couple hundred yards of help.

If the girls had been dumped at 7 Bridges and were still able to walk, they would have been able to find help.