IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[threecrazykids]

O/T but you guys might find this interesting (and sickening):

More than 100 children have been rescued from the clutches of pedophiles after a massive U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency raid.

The ground-breaking investigation - named 'Operation Sunflower' - was executed America-wide between November 2012 and the first week of December, and resulted in 245 arrests.

A total of 123 sexually exploited children were identified by ICE agents working with Homeland Security Investigations by targeting people who own, trade and produce child *advertiser censored*.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

GOOD! I hope they are all prosecuted to the extents the law will allow. This has GOT to stop!

 

[Bootsctr]

Not related to this case in any way, but I found this and it made me think that this is how an unplanned murder case of a child plays out. No planning, just in the wrong place at the wrong time and some loser decides spontaneously that your life has no value. The way Lizzie's and Lyric's case is playing out compare to this one, makes me feel that something was planned and it wasn't random. Then again, what the heck do I know?

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/missing-griffin-girl-found-dead/nTdJQ/

*sigh another innocent victim! Such a sweet little face!

I dunno know anything, but one thing... there is something HINKY going on in Lizzie's and Lyric's case. Can't put my finger on it, but it is HINKY!

 

[carbuff]

*sigh another innocent victim! Such a sweet little face!

I dunno know anything, but one thing... there is something HINKY going on in Lizzie's and Lyric's case. Can't put my finger on it, but it is HINKY!

Yeah, that's the feeling I'm getting too.

I had the same feeling in Jessica Ridgeway's case, that it was something we couldn't quite see because we were all too...well, normal, I guess, to imagine the depravity. I'm afraid that might be the case here, too. Just right there at the corner of my mind...refusing to go away.

 

[Confusion]

Originally Posted by SapphireSteel
O/t...just sharing with those interested...it has just hit 113f where I live.

That's 45c.

I know I'm really late with this comment, but thought I'd try to help you appreciate your weather a little bit more. A couple days ago, it got down to -15F (which is around -24 C) here. I usually think I'd prefer my weather to yours, but a lot of people would prefer the heat to the cold.

 

[hollyblue]

O/T but you guys might find this interesting (and sickening):

More than 100 children have been rescued from the clutches of pedophiles after a massive U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency raid.

The ground-breaking investigation - named 'Operation Sunflower' - was executed America-wide between November 2012 and the first week of December, and resulted in 245 arrests.

A total of 123 sexually exploited children were identified by ICE agents working with Homeland Security Investigations by targeting people who own, trade and produce child *advertiser censored*.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

Beside behind bars or sent to a desolate island, I'd like to see every name of the 245 "operators" listed by MSM and made available to all social media. How many of these were caught in Iowa? IS there a list and the locations?

I still believe there may have been a connection to child *advertiser censored* in L & E's case....just because Lyric & Lizzie were both taken. Their case became too hot and they got rid of the girls....they couldn't be used. One of the reasons I believed the FBI when they stated they believed the girls were still alive. Time will tell when the autopsy report comes back in knowing how long the girls had been deceased.

I so hope they are on the tails of catching the perp(s). !!!!!

 

[Marilynilpa]

One thing that bothers me the most is that Lyric and Lizzie knew Grandma needed them to be home at a specific time. The girls asked to take a short bike ride, so they realized they couldn't go very far. They get on their bikes, pedal off like they'd probably done hundreds of times before. They ride past the auction house, and then - what?

I know kids don't have the same concept of time that adults do. But I'm sure Lyric and Lizzie would have known that by biking all the way to the lake, they would not be back to Lizzie's house in time. So why, on that day, would they choose to deliberately ignore Grandma?

This is what nags at me - if the girls wanted to bike to the lake, why pick that particular day? Why not the day before, or the day after? Or why not go earlier in the day, to ensure they'd be home in time, if they wanted to bike to the lake?

If the girls actually did bike to the lake, I believe they did so for a specific reason and had been reassured that they would not get in trouble.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I know I'm really late with this comment, but thought I'd try to help you appreciate your weather a little bit more. A couple days ago, it got down to -15F (which is around -24 C) here. I usually think I'd prefer my weather to yours, but a lot of people would prefer the heat to the cold.

After my husband passed away in 2001, I wanted to move away from Dallas to somewhere I'd never been before. One criteria was, I wanted to live where it was cold and snowy in the winter. Even though I fuss about the snow here in Pittsburgh, I much prefer the cold and snow to the heat and humidity of Texas. JMO

 

[threecrazykids]

Beside behind bars or sent to a desolate island, I'd like to see every name of the 245 "operators" listed by MSM and made available to all social media. How many of these were caught in Iowa? IS there a list and the locations?

I still believe there may have been a connection to child *advertiser censored* in L & E's case....just because Lyric & Lizzie were both taken. Their case became too hot and they got rid of the girls....they couldn't be used. One of the reasons I believed the FBI when they stated they believed the girls were still alive. Time will tell when the autopsy report comes back in knowing how long the girls had been deceased.

I so hope they are on the tails of catching the perp(s). !!!!!

I would love to see that list too and know if any were in Iowa. Maybe once they are tried AND CONVICTED they would be willing to do so. As much as I hate to defend anyone associated with this behavior I don't know that it's really fair to release all of their names etc. If there was some sort of distortion and someone arrested was not found guilty it probably wouldn't even matter once they are associated with the arrest.

Once you have any type of association with a crime like this your life would be forever changed...even if you're found NOT guilty. Guilty by association my parents would call it.

But...if they plea bargain or get convicted then I think it's fair game to release their names. I won't go into my rant about how I think anyone who commits a felony should ALSO have their names put out there for their community to know...but that rant I will save for a different day.:floorlaugh:

 

[JaimeInLA]

I would love to see that list too and know if any were in Iowa. Maybe once they are tried AND CONVICTED they would be willing to do so. As much as I hate to defend anyone associated with this behavior I don't know that it's really fair to release all of their names etc. If there was some sort of distortion and someone arrested was not found guilty it probably wouldn't even matter once they are associated with the arrest.

Once you have any type of association with a crime like this your life would be forever changed...even if you're found NOT guilty. Guilty by association my parents would call it.

But...if they plea bargain or get convicted then I think it's fair game to release their names. I won't go into my rant about how I think anyone who commits a felony should ALSO have their names put out there for their community to know...but that rant I will save for a different day.:floorlaugh:

They are releasing them to the local press in each community where the perps are suspected to live. Here is the one that went out to my local community this morning:

http://woodlandhills.patch.com/arti...child-pornographers?ncid=newsltuspatc00000001

They don't know the name of the woman involved, but they have her photo, and descriptions of her tattoos. Hopefully someone will be able to identify her from this info and she can be found and arrested.

 

[threecrazykids]

One thing that bothers me the most is that Lyric and Lizzie knew Grandma needed them to be home at a specific time. The girls asked to take a short bike ride, so they realized they couldn't go very far. They get on their bikes, pedal off like they'd probably done hundreds of times before. They ride past the auction house, and then - what?

I know kids don't have the same concept of time that adults do. But I'm sure Lyric and Lizzie would have known that by biking all the way to the lake, they would not be back to Lizzie's house in time. So why, on that day, would they choose to deliberately ignore Grandma?

This is what nags at me - if the girls wanted to bike to the lake, why pick that particular day? Why not the day before, or the day after? Or why not go earlier in the day, to ensure they'd be home in time, if they wanted to bike to the lake?

If the girls actually did bike to the lake, I believe they did so for a specific reason and been reassured that they would not get in trouble.

Ok...I've been doing a lot of thinking on this.

I wonder if the girls ever KNEW they had to be back by a certain time. I know it's been said by the family that they "never went that far", and that Wylma had wanted to leave the house by 1:30 to meet Tammy - BUT - was it ever published that Grandma told them "DO NOT GO FAR" or "stay within eyesight because we are leaving in just a bit"...anything along those lines?

Even though the adults seemed to have their plans for the day, I have yet to read where Grandma had told the girls their plans for leaving early. (The reason I say early is because Misty wasn't to get off until 2:00 - and they were leaving at 1:30 to meet Tammy according to transcripts).

Did the GIRLS know this or did Lyric think they had until 2 before anyone would expect them home? If this is when Mom would be picking her up unless she was told to be back before then maybe she/they thought they had time to dink around until Mom got off work?

I know Grandma had said in a transcript that if she can't see them she will yell for them and they will "eventually come back".

I just wonder if the girls themselves were ever told what time they needed to be back? Was that ever published in a transcript and I missed it? Or did the family just expect them back because they TYPICALLY checked in on a regular basis?

I just find it weird that a lot of focus seemed to have been made to the 2pm timeframe as far as the jogger, the Casey's guy in the white van etc. For some reason I'm feeling there is some sort of association with that 2pm timeframe...meaning that would be maybe when the girls would plan on being back to Lizzy's??

 

[hollyblue]

One thing that bothers me the most is that Lyric and Lizzie knew Grandma needed them to be home at a specific time. The girls asked to take a short bike ride, so they realized they couldn't go very far. They get on their bikes, pedal off like they'd probably done hundreds of times before. They ride past the auction house, and then - what?

I know kids don't have the same concept of time that adults do. But I'm sure Lyric and Lizzie would have known that by biking all the way to the lake, they would not be back to Lizzie's house in time. So why, on that day, would they choose to deliberately ignore Grandma?

This is what nags at me - if the girls wanted to bike to the lake, why pick that particular day? Why not the day before, or the day after? Or why not go earlier in the day, to ensure they'd be home in time, if they wanted to bike to the lake?

If the girls actually did bike to the lake, I believe they did so for a specific reason and had been reassured that they would not get in trouble.

Gma Wylma didn't need to leave until 1:30 for Waterloo, but I'm sure she wanted to fix the kid's lunch and cleanup before she left. So technically if the girls skipped lunch they had some extra time....to stretch their bike riding. I think the girls were lured there, but thought they could be back fairly shortly without getting into too much trouble and Lyric still be on Gma's good graces in leaving for Waterloo.

 

[chelsea6]

One thing that bothers me the most is that Lyric and Lizzie knew Grandma needed them to be home at a specific time. The girls asked to take a short bike ride, so they realized they couldn't go very far. They get on their bikes, pedal off like they'd probably done hundreds of times before. They ride past the auction house, and then - what?

I'm trying to think about this. The girls just poured themselves cold juice. That's when the girls ASKED to take a SHORT bike ride. (They knew leaving their just poured cold juice would give them a better chance Grandma would say yes.)

A short bike ride means not completing the full loop. Which means they had to make a quick turn around somewhere to come back, or go in-between the businesses somewhere for a shortcut.

Where on a map would they be able to shorten their route and also be the best place to give a perp a chance to abduct them? :waitasec:

 

[hollyblue]

Ok...I've been doing a lot of thinking on this.

I wonder if the girls ever KNEW they had to be back by a certain time. I know it's been said by the family that they "never went that far", and that Wylma had wanted to leave the house by 1:30 to meet Tammy - BUT - was it ever published that Grandma told them "DO NOT GO FAR" or "stay within eyesight because we are leaving in just a bit"...anything along those lines?

Even though the adults seemed to have their plans for the day, I have yet to read where Grandma had told the girls their plans for leaving early. (The reason I say early is because Misty wasn't to get off until 2:00 - and they were leaving at 1:30 to meet Tammy according to transcripts).

Did the GIRLS know this or did Lyric think they had until 2 before anyone would expect them home? If this is when Mom would be picking her up unless she was told to be back before then maybe she/they thought they had time to dink around until Mom got off work?

I know Grandma had said in a transcript that if she can't see them she will yell for them and they will "eventually come back".

I just wonder if the girls themselves were ever told what time they needed to be back? Was that ever published in a transcript and I missed it? Or did the family just expect them back because they TYPICALLY checked in on a regular basis?

I just find it weird that a lot of focus seemed to have been made to the 2pm timeframe as far as the jogger, the Casey's guy in the white van etc. For some reason I'm feeling there is some sort of association with that 2pm timeframe...meaning that would be maybe when the girls would plan on being back to Lizzy's??

Don't have a link, but there was something from Misty saying she talked to Lyric and telling her to be sure she called her to decide if she would return with GMa or her. Lyric never called her mom back. Can't remember if it was a video or just an article....pretty early in the investigation.

 

[threecrazykids]

I'm trying to think about this. The girls just poured themselves cold juice. That's when the girls ASKED to take a SHORT bike ride. (They knew leaving their just poured cold juice would give them a better chance Grandma would say yes.)

A short bike ride means not completing the full loop. Which means they had to make a quick turn around somewhere to come back, or go in-between the businesses somewhere for a shortcut.

Where on a map would they be able to shorten their route and also be the best place to give a perp a chance to abduct them? :waitasec:

Yes, but if they left at 11:30...were last seen at 12:15 that isn't really a short ride, is it? To me...a short ride would be back in 10-15 mins...so again, did they know how much time they had? They'd asked to go for a ride...but did they know how much time they really had since they'd already been gone 45 mins and still weren't told to come inside for lunch? :waitasec:

 

[threecrazykids]

Don't have a link, but there was something from Misty saying she talked to Lyric and telling her to be sure she called her to decide if she would return with GMa or her. Lyric never called her mom back. Can't remember if it was a video or just an article....pretty early in the investigation.

So, they left at 11:30...last seen by Grandma at 12:15, but was told to call Mom if they left before 1:30! So...does that mean they thought they had until 1:30 to ride? :waitasec:

 

[ShyViolet]

One thing that bothers me the most is that Lyric and Lizzie knew Grandma needed them to be home at a specific time. The girls asked to take a short bike ride, so they realized they couldn't go very far. They get on their bikes, pedal off like they'd probably done hundreds of times before. They ride past the auction house, and then - what?

I know kids don't have the same concept of time that adults do. But I'm sure Lyric and Lizzie would have known that by biking all the way to the lake, they would not be back to Lizzie's house in time. So why, on that day, would they choose to deliberately ignore Grandma?

This is what nags at me - if the girls wanted to bike to the lake, why pick that particular day? Why not the day before, or the day after? Or why not go earlier in the day, to ensure they'd be home in time, if they wanted to bike to the lake?

If the girls actually did bike to the lake, I believe they did so for a specific reason and had been reassured that they would not get in trouble.

I have all the same questions. I noticed in a recent article you posted the other day (pretty sure it was you, anyway) it was reported that the girls left the Collin's home around 12:15. I seem to remember that the time the girls left for their ride changed a few times early on and was discussed here at length. If they actually left the house at 12:15 it might help explain a few things, yet still leave a lot of unanswered questions.

From the article: "Authorities said the girls left Elizabeth's house in Evansdale around 12:15 p.m., were spotted at approximately 12:23 p.m. at a nearby intersection and then were seen between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on a road by the lake."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-iowa-cousins-lyric-cook-elizabeth-collins-bodies/story?id=17888330

 

[chelsea6]

They are releasing them to the local press in each community where the perps are suspected to live. Here is the one that went out to my local community this morning:

http://woodlandhills.patch.com/arti...child-pornographers?ncid=newsltuspatc00000001

They don't know the name of the woman involved, but they have her photo, and descriptions of her tattoos. Hopefully someone will be able to identify her from this info and she can be found and arrested.

I just remembered! When I called in the tipline this time, they asked if he had a tattoo. They never asked this before on the other calls. Are they now looking for someone with a particular tattoo? (Maybe from a picture or witness?) :waitasec:

 

[threecrazykids]

I just remembered! When I called in the tipline this time, they asked if he had a tattoo. They never asked this before on the other calls. Are they now looking for someone with a particular tattoo? (Maybe from a picture or witness?) :waitasec:

:great: I know LE does question or take note of tattoos because it is something people will remember. Awesome! Maybe they just asked as a standard question, but maybe they ARE looking for someone with a tattoo!:waitasec:

 

[MNDad]

I have all the same questions. I noticed in a recent article you posted the other day (pretty sure it was you, anyway) it was reported that the girls left the Collin's home around 12:15. I seem to remember that the time the girls left for their ride changed a few times early on and was discussed here at length. If they actually left the house at 12:15 it might help explain a few things, yet still leave a lot of unanswered questions.

From the article: "Authorities said the girls left Elizabeth's house in Evansdale around 12:15 p.m., were spotted at approximately 12:23 p.m. at a nearby intersection and then were seen between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on a road by the lake."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-iowa-cousins-lyric-cook-elizabeth-collins-bodies/story?id=17888330

I don't think I have ever read it this concise or with these times for that matter. If this was the first time I ever read anything about the timeline, then the timeline would make perfect sense without any confusion. The problem is that this isn't the first time I have read anything about the timeline and I have heard so many other times (verified or not). So let's say we took this as the definitive timeline and discarded anything else; I still have questions. What nearby intersection? Spotted by who? What road by the lake? Seen by who? Which directions were traveling when spotted and seen?

 

[chelsea6]

Yes, but if they left at 11:30...were last seen at 12:15 that isn't really a short ride, is it? To me...a short ride would be back in 10-15 mins...so again, did they know how much time they had? They'd asked to go for a ride...but did they know how much time they really had since they'd already been gone 45 mins and still weren't told to come inside for lunch? :waitasec:

You're right!! 10-15 minutes would be a short bike ride to me too. And nobody yelled at them to come inside during that 11:30 - 12:15 timeline? :waitasec: