IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[RNER]

I agree with you about looking at who benefits, and how they benefit. And about there being an epicenter somewhere.

While the most obvious (to most) conclusion is that a pedophile took the girls for his own twisted reasons, there are other possibilities that deserve consideration. IMO

IMOO...Whoever did this wanted it to be known the girls were taken and wanted the girls to be found, and clearly had a message to send!

If the bikes/purse were staged, as some believe, I don't know why the perp would go through the trouble or take the risk of being caught when they already had the girls and could have just taken the bikes with them or disposed of them in a random and more remote location. If the bikes weren't staged and just left at the lake in a random abduction, I don't know why the "identifiable" bodies/evidence ended up so close to home, when the perps had 5 months to dispose of them in any location and manner that would prevent them from being found or identified!

RSO/pervert/*advertiser censored* ring doesn't fit into my scenario because there would be other victims or similar crimes in the area before and after this and there would be more info and warnings released by LE to protect other children.

Timing and location from day 1 tells me this is "home grown" and related to family affiliation/lifestyle (not done by family members directly)! This family had affiliation with some very scary, intimidating, threatening people with rap sheets a mile long, who in my opinion, would not think twice about killing someone for any number of reasons!

And yes...I have specific people in mind with media articles and a (disturbing) youtube rap video...but I might be restricted by "rules" since they haven't been classified as a POI or "suspect".

 

[GrainneDhu]

It could have been more or less random choice on their part -- bored and where else do you go in a town that small? and thinking they could be back in time -- and bad luck that there happened to be a child killer lurking by the lake that day. If you read accounts from that kind of killer, they often describe waiting in areas where they know there are children, just waiting for somebody to come along.

Do I think that's likely? Like every other theory, I can't see any way to rule it out based on the information we have.

One reason I have mentally ruled out theories that involved the perp making contact with the girls at or near Brovan to lure them to the SE tip of Meyers Lake is that I think it would be difficult for a motorist to be sure of covering the distance in time. In town, it's often faster to get from A to B on a bicycle than it is in a car because bicyclists can flout the traffic laws (they shouldn't but they do).

I think it was jenandemmie who made a post a while back that the position of the bodies suggests two perps who walked the girls to that location, then went far enough to satisfy their personal senses of privacy.

Ever since then, I've been playing with the two perp theory. One that I think is very workable is to have one perp stationed in that one 400 foot length of trail that was isolated from observation. The other perp (probably the more publicly presentable one) goes into town, cruises around until he sees two young girls on bicycles together, makes contact and in some way lures them to Meyers Lake.

 

[kikid]

IMOO...Whoever did this wanted it to be known the girls were taken and wanted the girls to be found, and clearly had a message to send!

If the bikes/purse were staged, as some believe, I don't know why the perp would go through the trouble or take the risk of being caught when they already had the girls and could have just taken the bikes with them or disposed of them in a random and more remote location.

If the girls entered willingly into a nearby home or business, and left bikes in a yard, garage, or driveway - then the person who subdued them would want to get the bikes away from there asap! They'd take them to the nearest "Out-of-the-way" place they could think of.

I theorize this was someone nearby Bovan, someone they sort of knew (father of friend, uncle of friend, older teen). Someone who had a loosely formed plan for when the time was right. This person hadn't necessarily planned for these two girls on this particular day, but had planned what they would do if the situation ever presented itself.

The girls were lured into a building, home, office, business, shed or garage. The lure could have been anything from playing video games, a special treat, a gift or note for mom, or "Hey, your bike tire is low - bring it in the garage and I'll put some air in it".

We know this person was local, had access to a vehicle, and is probably someone familiar to the girls.

If the bikes were staged as I suspect, then this person was very familiar with Meyers Lake and the bike trail. This person also had to be familiar with the 7 Bridges location.

 

[RNER]

If the girls entered willingly into a nearby home or business, and left bikes in a yard, garage, or driveway - then the person who subdued them would want to get the bikes away from there asap! They'd take them to the nearest "Out-of-the-way" place they could think of.

I theorize this was someone nearby Bovan, someone they sort of knew (father of friend, uncle of friend, older teen). Someone who had a loosely formed plan for when the time was right. This person hadn't necessarily planned for these two girls on this particular day, but had planned what they would do if the situation ever presented itself.

The girls were lured into a building, home, office, business, shed or garage. The lure could have been anything from playing video games, a special treat, a gift or note for mom, or "Hey, your bike tire is low - bring it in the garage and I'll put some air in it".

We know this person was local, had access to a vehicle, and is probably someone familiar to the girls.

If the bikes were staged as I suspect, then this person was very familiar with Meyers Lake and the bike trail. This person also had to be familiar with the 7 Bridges location.

Agree with this...except if you want to "ditch" the bikes and "get rid of them ASAP", why lay them against the fence (or in whatever debated manner they were placed) on the bike trail, throw the purse over the fence and make it appear that they were left there by the girls, especially if they were being held in a house or building or by someone that lived or had activities NEAR the lake? Why not "ditch" the bikes in the woods or throw them at the side of the road somewhere other than the lake? IF the bikes were staged, it was done to draw attention TO THE LAKE, which in my opinion would indicate that the perp(s) took the girls and/or had the girls somewhere OTHER THAN THE LAKE! The remote location of the bikes/purse on the bikepath does not indicate to me the "nearest out-of-the-way place" for disposing of the bikes unless the perp lived or had connection to one of the homes right there!:what: HMM!

 

[chelsea6]

I may be seeing some weird connections involving a person we've discussed, but need some answers first.


I noticed there are girls and boys preschool to 8th grade in an Evansdale wrestling club. Does Readlyn have a childrens wrestling club as well, and if so do they play each other from time to time? :waitasec:

 

[kikid]

Agree with this...except if you want to "ditch" the bikes and "get rid of them ASAP", why lay them against the fence (or in whatever debated manner they were placed) on the bike trail, throw the purse over the fence and make it appear that they were left there by the girls, especially if they were being held in a house or building or by someone that lived or had activities NEAR the lake? Why not "ditch" the bikes in the woods or throw them at the side of the road somewhere other than the lake? IF the bikes were staged, it was done to draw attention TO THE LAKE, which in my opinion would indicate that the perp(s) took the girls and/or had the girls somewhere OTHER THAN THE LAKE! The remote location of the bikes/purse on the bikepath does not indicate to me the "nearest out-of-the-way place" for disposing of the bikes unless the perp lived or had connection to one of the homes right there!:what: HMM!

Yes, that makes sense that they were placed to draw attention to the lake and place the girls there rather than on their street/block.

Editing to add....

If this is the case and the bikes placed to throw off search efforts or give the perp more time, then we are dealing with a somewhat intelligent perp. Certainly not a druggie, a younger teen (16-18), or a peson with a low IQ.

 

[nursebeeme]

folks: do not "discuss" what you are not allowed to discuss... this includes talking about what you cannot discuss. Also a reminder that we do not allow discussion of personal messages on the thread.

:nurse:

 

[Marilynilpa]

folks: do not "discuss" what you are not allowed to discuss... this includes talking about what you cannot discuss. Also a reminder that we do not allow discussion of personal messages on the thread.

:nurse:

Sorry, I know better.:blushing:

 

[Squeeze]

Agree with this...except if you want to "ditch" the bikes and "get rid of them ASAP", why lay them against the fence (or in whatever debated manner they were placed) on the bike trail, throw the purse over the fence and make it appear that they were left there by the girls, especially if they were being held in a house or building or by someone that lived or had activities NEAR the lake? Why not "ditch" the bikes in the woods or throw them at the side of the road somewhere other than the lake? IF the bikes were staged, it was done to draw attention TO THE LAKE, which in my opinion would indicate that the perp(s) took the girls and/or had the girls somewhere OTHER THAN THE LAKE! The remote location of the bikes/purse on the bikepath does not indicate to me the "nearest out-of-the-way place" for disposing of the bikes unless the perp lived or had connection to one of the homes right there!:what: HMM!

Just shows that this person obviously planned every detail for when the time was right. Good theories!

 

[Bootsctr]

We have many nesting around us here in June. Just around freezing these days, saw a magnificent bald eagle yesterday sitting at the top of the old hanging tree along the highway to town.

Thank you so much for your response! I'm jealous. These are magnificant birds. I never knew Papa bird took such an active role in raising the young ones. During the day, they are changing sitting on the young ones about every 2 hours. Huge fine if you disturb the nest (which can weigh up to 4,000 pounds) - $25,000 and one year in jail. Someone messing with our human children should suffer far greater consequences.

I would like to again apologize to anyone I might have offended with an earlier post. Being molested at 7 years by an uncle who was 16 at the time may have jaded thought process. I thought he was the coolest person on earth at the time. Grandmother even denied that said uncle could have possibly done this even though he was caught in the process by my grandfather. Quite a time passed (6 months to a year) and he was allowed to be alone with me again. He did it again. He tried to maintain control over me for many years. At 17 I told him what I thought of him and never allowed myself to be alone with him again or talk to him over the phone. It took many years to realize it was not MY FAULT!

I would like to say I do not believe this is what happened in Elizabeth and Lyric's case. However, I cannot rule out drugs not being involved. I also think the sex trafficking situation has strong possibilities too. I am one of the few who believe Deb Irwin did not have a nefarious connection in Baby Lisa's connection. Thanks for reading.

 

[Squeeze]

If the girls entered willingly into a nearby home or business, and left bikes in a yard, garage, or driveway - then the person who subdued them would want to get the bikes away from there asap! They'd take them to the nearest "Out-of-the-way" place they could think of.

I theorize this was someone nearby Bovan, someone they sort of knew (father of friend, uncle of friend, older teen). Someone who had a loosely formed plan for when the time was right. This person hadn't necessarily planned for these two girls on this particular day, but had planned what they would do if the situation ever presented itself.

The girls were lured into a building, home, office, business, shed or garage. The lure could have been anything from playing video games, a special treat, a gift or note for mom, or "Hey, your bike tire is low - bring it in the garage and I'll put some air in it".

We know this person was local, had access to a vehicle, and is probably someone familiar to the girls.

If the bikes were staged as I suspect, then this person was very familiar with Meyers Lake and the bike trail. This person also had to be familiar with the 7 Bridges location.

Agree 100%. I don't think they made it as far as the lake.


There was mention in a thread a while back about possible surveillance cameras at the shop on the corner. Id really like to know if they had them, because it would make sense if they do. I may have to take a drive later....

 

[katydid23]

Agree 100%. I don't think they made it as far as the lake.


There was mention in a thread a while back about possible surveillance cameras at the shop on the corner. Id really like to know if they had them, because it would make sense if they do. I may have to take a drive later....

Squeeze,

What do the locals in Waterloo think about this case? What do they think happened to the girls? Are people afraid there is a kidnapper living among them? Or do they think it was someone passing through?

 

[Bootsctr]

The subpoena stated that KWWL “may have knowledge, regarding a criminal offense which occurred in Black Hawk County, Iowa, on or about July 13.”

No matter how many times I view the video, I can't figure it out. Misty talked about being at the hotel room and LE coming in at an early hour, and that she and Dan had seen an attorney who told them they shouldn't speak any more to LE.

For whatever reason, that video was significant to LE. Maybe LE heard something on the video that contradicted something they were told, and subpoenaed the video in case it was ever needed for evidence.:waitasec:

My apologies, I'm still a few pages behind, but wanted to comment regarding the subpoenaed video.

I believe LE subpoening the video was LE's way of telling the family, perhaps Misty and Dan in particular, talk to us. Stop talking to the media. This case is very serious. We don't think you are cooperating fully with us. Talk to us not the media. We are trying to keep some things out of public knowledge so we will know when we have the guilty person. I don't necessarily think anything of importance was on the video. It just showed that LE was serious with the family when they subpoened it. FWIW. JMO. :moo:

 

[chelsea6]

folks: do not "discuss" what you are not allowed to discuss... this includes talking about what you cannot discuss. Also a reminder that we do not allow discussion of personal messages on the thread.

:nurse:

Will be very careful. :seeya:

 

[chelsea6]

Agree 100%. I don't think they made it as far as the lake.


There was mention in a thread a while back about possible surveillance cameras at the shop on the corner. Id really like to know if they had them, because it would make sense if they do. I may have to take a drive later....

If you see someone with a BIG German Shepherd in the front seat taking pictures.. it's probably ME!! lolol :floorlaugh:

 

[alliemay]

Wish I could understand the staged theory better but having a hard time because the poster says they were last seen riding their bikes about 2:00 near the lake. Would that have been the statement made by the lawn watering guy? If his statement was not correct or fuzzy, I can't see LE allowing anyone to put that reference on a poster.....confusing

I think that if the killer where smart, he would fess up now, think I read that they are trying to enact the death penalty in this state.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...38-0019bb2963f4/5002c04654cd0.preview-699.jpg

 

[Jax49]

If you see someone with a BIG German Shepherd in the front seat taking pictures.. it's probably ME!! lolol :floorlaugh:

What kind of camera does your shep prefer? LOL. Thanks, I needed a laugh.

I've not posted much here recently -- just so disappointed the girls were murdered and no arrests have been made.

 

[Bootsctr]

Now I will have to look that up. Did you know her, or did it happen where you live?

Johnny Gosch has always had my attention. He was a few years younger then I when abducted in 1982. I recently watched a show on msnbc called Missing Johnny. There were several thing that caught me off guard, or I simply had never heard before.

1. It took the police 45 minutes to respond, even though the police station was only 10 blocks away.

2. He had a younger brother and older half siblings.

3. There was a young guy who came forward who admitted he helped abduct Johnny. The Des Moines police never questioned him.

4. Eugene Martin was abducted two years later, and I knew about that, but the police didn't think there was a link. Then nearly two years after that, a THIRD boy went missing, Marc Allen. I have never heard of that one!!! Perhaps his mother (although interviewed for the show) was not as vocal as Noreen Gosch. Hes never been found.

Clearly, we owe a lot to Noreen Gosch and her tenacity. She has made a difference, and still is.

I recently caught the tail-end of a program feature Johnny Gosch that recently aired (msnbc I believe). Was not able to see the whole story, but Noreen Gosch was interviewed and what she said opened my eyes to other possibilities of the missing girls. HOpe to catch the program in its entirety. Thank you to the local Websleuthers who alerted me to Johnny and his story.

 

[chelsea6]

If the girls entered willingly into a nearby home or business, and left bikes in a yard, garage, or driveway - then the person who subdued them would want to get the bikes away from there asap! They'd take them to the nearest "Out-of-the-way" place they could think of.

I theorize this was someone nearby Bovan, someone they sort of knew (father of friend, uncle of friend, older teen). Someone who had a loosely formed plan for when the time was right. This person hadn't necessarily planned for these two girls on this particular day, but had planned what they would do if the situation ever presented itself.

The girls were lured into a building, home, office, business, shed or garage. The lure could have been anything from playing video games, a special treat, a gift or note for mom, or "Hey, your bike tire is low - bring it in the garage and I'll put some air in it".

We know this person was local, had access to a vehicle, and is probably someone familiar to the girls.

If the bikes were staged as I suspect, then this person was very familiar with Meyers Lake and the bike trail. This person also had to be familiar with the 7 Bridges location.

Doesn't this remind you of that escape from Alcatraz, in June 1962 when the inmates fashioned dummies of themselves to buy time while they made their escape? Perhaps the bikes were staged for the same reason. http://www.alcatrazhistory.com/alcesc1.htm

 

[chelsea6]

What kind of camera does your shep prefer? LOL. Thanks, I needed a laugh.

I've not posted much here recently -- just so disappointed the girls were murdered and no arrests have been made.

Y.W... Oh, and he's got a Samsung system at home, anything new would be great!! ...lol :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: