IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

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TG saw 2 bikes they have never been confirmed as the girls bikes by LE. TG also said he saw two people fishing it's quite possible that the people fishing were the owners of the bikes TG saw.

Were the 2 fishermen fishing from a boat? If the 2 fishermen rode bikes to the lake, how did the boat get to the lake?
 
Wow! Remind me to give up my day job so i dont miss the opinions in this thread. What a massive day today! To stage or not to stage that is the question! lol. Still havent changed my theory went back through some of the august threads speculating on bike positions & the wording of the LE. To Otto, you are awesome with your maps!

The debate today was great. I guess sometimes we forget that the words we write do not really have emotion it is us that bring the emotion into the words. Some sentences are too the point & that is clear. Then there is fluffy - like me lol...(although in the mini heat wave we are having in my corner of the world its more like melty me) lol...

Ps: I am one of those rare ones who doesn't drive & can multitask on a bike lol down to my river. :)
 
BBM - IMHO, that's really big of you!

:great:
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Were the 2 fishermen fishing from a boat? If the 2 fishermen rode bikes to the lake, how did the boat get to the lake?
No. SierraShelby said specifically in a post here there was no boat/paddleboat. I looked it up yesterday because I had read SS's post wrong the first time and wanted to make sure.
 
So.. going by the above the bikes could have been staged the night before? I don't see a time when someone didn't see the bikes, it's like they were always there. Moo



Actually This lady says she was on the trail sometime on the 13th and says the park was empty.

"[She] lives near Meyers Lake, and was even on the trail Friday but says the park was empty then."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19084897/search-for-missing-evansdale-girls-continues-with-little-new-evidence
 
No. SierraShelby said specifically in a post here there was no boat/paddleboat. I looked it up yesterday because I had read SS's post wrong the first time and wanted to make sure.

So....(assuming) there was NO paddleboat when SierraShelby was there, and Breault mentioned several times that they wanted the paddle boater to come forward to assist in the investigation, do we believe the paddleboater was there thefore or after SS was there?

I don't think LE would ask for a paddle boater to come forward if no one reported them being there. So we have at least one other witness who was there that day. (Could be the jogger or the fisherman).

Before or after?:waitasec:
 
hmm...
this will probably fall in an odd place, because I'm back in the middle of the discussion on how the bikes were positioned when found.

I'm the type of person who has in fact, moved bikes off of a path or trail if I found them just dropped there. As a young girl, I could NEVER stand bikes just laying on the ground. Mine were always parked nicely. If I'd been walking or jogging on that path that day, I'd have moved those bikes off the trail and parked them neatly.

So...now that I know about this case, I'll never do that again! Just imagine if my prints had been on those bikes! :jail:
 
And if it wasn't for the surveillance video that supposedly shows the girls Friday, July 13, then we wouldn't even know for sure when exactly the last time was that they were seen (by anyone other than family)

Supposedly is right. We don't know for sure that video is footage of our girls.
And only a couple of people that thought they saw the girls came forward. I know I get mixed up, and it may be hard to admit, but perhaps they remember a different day, or it was some other girls they saw. (Lots of kids say hi to people.) If Lyric was so used to saying hi to everyone, then why was it just one or two maybe that came forward saying she said "Hi" to them if she were riding her bike for hours? :waitasec:

Where is the confirmation that the bikes weren't always there from late night before?
 
What is the web address for the main newspaper there?
 
So....(assuming) there was NO paddleboat when SierraShelby was there, and Breault mentioned several times that they wanted the paddle boater to come forward to assist in the investigation, do we believe the paddleboater was there thefore or after SS was there?

I don't think LE would ask for a paddle boater to come forward if no one reported them being there. So we have at least one other witness who was there that day. (Could be the jogger or the fisherman).

Before or after?:waitasec:

Must have been after because of the sighting on Brovan and Gilmer Sts. around 1pm.
 
Supposedly is right. We don't know for sure that video is footage of our girls.
And only a couple of people that thought they saw the girls came forward. I know I get mixed up, and it may be hard to admit, but perhaps they remember a different day, or it was some other girls they saw. (Lots of kids say hi to people.) If Lyric was so used to saying hi to everyone, then why was it just one or two maybe that came forward saying she said "Hi" to them if she were riding her bike for hours? :waitasec:

Where is the confirmation that the bikes weren't always there from late night before?

IIRC, it was Lizzie who reportedly talked to people on Mr. C's street, not Lyric.

If the bikes were at the lake trail the night before, then what happened to the girls?

I think this may be skating on thin ice, since I don't see any way to discuss this topic without implicating family members in some way.:tos:

I don't want you getting a time out - I like your posts!
 
the bikes could have just been picked up out of the trail by the time the LEO got there..

I don't think they were staged. :twocents:

I also think the girls rode there and that a lot of the family interviews that said they had never been there were semantics.

The watering lawn neighbor said they would ride past and turn around at the end of his road and ride back... (right next to the lake too)

:twocents:
 
Until the girls' bodies were found, I thought there may have been a (small) chance the bicycles were staged.

Since the girls' bodies were found, I am now convinced there was no staging.

If the girls' bodies had been found close to Evansdale (within a 5 mile radius), I would still be considering staging. But they were found well outside the search perimeter, which indicates to me that the perp's intended method was to grab and run. As long as the perp had 5-10 minutes to get out of town, he was out of danger of immediate apprehension.

It would have taken at least 10 minutes to grab the girls, transport the bikes to Meyers Lake and stage them. What reason would he have to spend that 10 minutes in town when he could be hightailing it out of town to a place he knew was unlikely to be visited by humans that day?

Then add in that search dogs apparently did indicate on the girls' scent at the scene and that some witness(es) placed the girls on Gilbert as late as 1:00 pm. It just seems to me that the evidence points towards the girls being abducted from Meyers Lake.

I agree. These were my thoughts exactly. As much as I did not believe at first that the girls rode to the lake, it is what I keep coming back to now. From what I'm reading about staging, it occurs at the scene of the crime in most cases. Sexual posing, ransacking, making a scene look like the scene of a burglary. Making a murder look like a suicide. I haven't found anything yet that involves transporting large items and dumping them in an effort to misdirect LE. With what little research has been done, staging was found to have occurred in less than 3% of the cases they looked at. The study was small and very limited. Truthfully, they just don't have many statistics on this phenomena.

So, I'm inclined to believe that IF staging occurred, it was someone familiar to the girls(familiar on what level, I don't know) I don't think a stranger would take on the risk at the time of the abduction. The staging would be more likely to occur at the place the bodies were dumped. IMO.

Wanted to provide a link for one of the several websites That talk about staging.

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/ISJjuly2010.pdf
 
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