IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[threecrazykids]

If I'm wrong, I apologize to SapphireSteel for the incorrect assumption.

Well I made the wrong assumption too! I thought Sapphire was a she and the OTHER SS, (SierraShelby), is a he.

Guess we were both wrong! :floorlaugh:

 

[GrainneDhu]

hmm...
this will probably fall in an odd place, because I'm back in the middle of the discussion on how the bikes were positioned when found.

I'm the type of person who has in fact, moved bikes off of a path or trail if I found them just dropped there. As a young girl, I could NEVER stand bikes just laying on the ground. Mine were always parked nicely. If I'd been walking or jogging on that path that day, I'd have moved those bikes off the trail and parked them neatly.

So...now that I know about this case, I'll never do that again! Just imagine if my prints had been on those bikes! :jail:

If you had moved the bicycles, I believe you'd step forward and talk to LE about the whole thing. Imagine how valuable it would have been to have a witness who saw the girls on their bicycles at, say, 1:50 pm and then another witness who saw the bicycles, looked around for kids and then moved the bicycles at 2:00 pm.

With that narrow of a time frame, LE could examine all the CCTV footage available for that 10 minute slot and have a workable number of vehicles to investigate.

I also think that the answer to the question "am I the only one who...?" is always "no, you are not the only one" (also known as Ugol's Law). So there are undoubtedly other inveterate bicycle-straighteners out there.

 

[ktgirl]

the bikes could have just been picked up out of the trail by the time the LEO got there..

I don't think they were staged. :twocents:

I also think the girls rode there and that a lot of the family interviews that said they had never been there were semantics.

The watering lawn neighbor said they would ride past and turn around at the end of his road and ride back... (right next to the lake too)

:twocents:

I agree with all of this.

I know I'm in the minority but I do not think the bikes were staged.

 

[GrainneDhu]

the bikes could have just been picked up out of the trail by the time the LEO got there..

I don't think they were staged. :twocents:

I also think the girls rode there and that a lot of the family interviews that said they had never been there were semantics.

The watering lawn neighbor said they would ride past and turn around at the end of his road and ride back... (right next to the lake too)

:twocents:

BBM

I agree with all of the above and not just from fear of the needle.

It seems to me that the semantics that may have been in play were that the various family members who said they never rode to the lake were quite likely thinking "alone and without permission" in the context of the interview questions. If an interviewer had ever asked "did either of the girls ever ride to the lake with friends or with an adult?" the answer may well have been different.

 

[iamnotagolem]

If I'm wrong, I apologize to SapphireSteel for the incorrect assumption.

I don't think you are wrong. I'm sure she'll be along soon to set the record straight.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I agree with all of this.

I know I'm in the minority but I do not think the bikes were staged.

I'm right there with you

As for how the bikes were found, I think back to my childhood. It seems as though the boys that I grew up with were rougher with their bikes than we girls were. My brother seemed to need a new bike nearly every year because he would basically just jump off of his while it was still in motion and let it fall where it may. So, his bike was always beat to heck and back by the end of the summer. I, on the hand, never just plopped my bike down. I always used a kickstand. My bike was one of my favorite possessions. I would be a bike straightener! Lol. Is there a support group for us?

 

[tlcya]

Yup.

If I'm wrong, I apologize to SapphireSteel for the incorrect assumption.

we now have two members who are commmonly referred to as SS, for short.

SapphireSteel

and

SierraShelby

causing some confusion, likely not the last time.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I agree with all of this.

I know I'm in the minority but I do not think the bikes were staged.

I don't think you are in the minority on this. I believe the girls rode their bikes to the lake.

However, I ALSO believe they were staged. If that makes any sense.

I think the girls rode right to where the bikes were found, but the abductor (whom they knew), said, "just leave them there for now, let's go get ice cream" or something like that. The abductor purposely had those girls leave the bikes at that gate next to the lake so that it looked like they had a) drowned and b) been abducted by a complete stranger. Those would naturally be the first 2 assumptions most people would (and did) make.

Remember what Dan said: "They were led right into a trap."

 

[otto]

we now have two members who are commmonly referred to as SS, for short.

SapphireSteel

and

SierraShelby

causing some confusion, likely not the last time.

It seems like a fairly simple problem to solve ... we aren't really supposed to be discussing other posters, are we? Also, the anonymity of referring to the cyclist as "the cyclist" avoids any possibility of discussing other posters ... just my 2 cents.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I don't think you are in the minority on this. I believe the girls rode their bikes to the lake.

However, I ALSO believe they were staged. If that makes any sense.

I think the girls rode right to where the bikes were found, but the abductor (whom they knew), said, "just leave them there for now, let's go get ice cream" or something like that. The abductor purposely had those girls leave the bikes at that gate next to the lake so that it looked like they had a) drowned and b) been abducted by a complete stranger. Those would naturally be the first 2 assumptions most people would (and did) make.

Remember what Dan said: "They were led right into a trap."

I understand what you are saying. The girls rode to the lake, were snatched off of their bikes, and the bikes were moved in some way from how the girls originally left them. Do you think the purse was also moved?

Now that I've changed my mind and decided that I believe the girls rode to the lake, I now must decide whether they rode there for the heck of it and had the misfortune of running into the perp(s) there...or whether they were lured there for the purpose of being taken in a more secluded setting than say Brovan. I think most likely they were lured there to be taken. Someone sent them to their deaths.

 

[Fukiyama]

we now have two members who are commmonly referred to as SS, for short.

SapphireSteel

and

SierraShelby

causing some confusion, likely not the last time.

Not really. I've been here since thread #1 and SapphireSteel has been Sapphire for short pretty much all the time. SS has only popped up recently referring to SierraShelby.

And believe me, I'd have noticed if had been used before because SS is so distinctive considering my interest in Nazi Germany.

 

[otto]

I don't think you are in the minority on this. I believe the girls rode their bikes to the lake.

However, I ALSO believe they were staged. If that makes any sense.

I think the girls rode right to where the bikes were found, but the abductor (whom they knew), said, "just leave them there for now, let's go get ice cream" or something like that. The abductor purposely had those girls leave the bikes at that gate next to the lake so that it looked like they had a) drowned and b) been abducted by a complete stranger. Those would naturally be the first 2 assumptions most people would (and did) make.

Remember what Dan said: "They were led right into a trap."

That might well be the simplest answer to what happened, but if does require the fact that a murderer just happened to be on that isolated section of the trail, at the fairly deserted park, exactly when the children just happened to be riding there.

Perhaps the children rode their bikes straight to the trail and, when they entered the double fence area, they were intercepted by one or two predators. They were forced to put their bikes at the gate, go through the gate, walk along the lake shore and vanish into a vehicle parked in Maiden Lane.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I understand what you are saying. The girls rode to the lake, were snatched off of their bikes, and the bikes were moved in some way from how the girls originally left them. Do you think the purse was also moved?

Now that I've changed my mind and decided that I believe the girls rode to the lake, I now must decide whether they rode there for the heck of it and had the misfortune of running into the perp(s) there...or whether they were lured there for the purpose of being taken in a more secluded setting than say Brovan. I think most likely they were lured there to be taken. Someone sent them to their deaths.

I think that (insert name of my suspect) was well known to the girls. He/she tossed the purse over the fence as the girls walked ahead towards the car. The girls left the bikes on the trail. At some point, either a good Samaritan picked them up and leaned them on the fence, or the searchers picked them up and leaned them on the fence.

Remember, at this point, NOBODY was thinking they had been kidnapped. The searchers were volunteer firemen -- not trained LE. They weren't even full time firemen/city employees. They just thought they were helping look for 2 girls who were probably lost or maybe had fallen in the lake. I think it is likely that they picked up the bikes once they found them. (Of course, this is a HUGE boo-boo, and LE will NEVER admit this to us. Hence, Abben's vagueness.)

 

[hollyblue]

the bikes could have just been picked up out of the trail by the time the LEO got there..

I don't think they were staged. :twocents:

I also think the girls rode there and that a lot of the family interviews that said they had never been there were semantics.

The watering lawn neighbor said they would ride past and turn around at the end of his road and ride back... (right next to the lake too)

:twocents:

Agree nurse. I believe the girls had more freedom than has been told. Perps tune in to children who they know that do by watching and seeing them regularly. IMO Maybe he children were restricted to a three block area, but if they are out there for an hour of more....parents really don't know where they are. Not blaming the parents or family, only the loosely moralled sick perps should be blamed. I remember being gone almost all day with my large group of friends riding bikes and exploring back in the 60's....be home for dinner or before dark. We did look out for each other tho..so if one was hurt, there were others to go tell the parents or take us home. We lived in the rurals and would sometimes explore the junk yard down the road belonging to an older couple that never had any children. One day they invited me in for some ice cream...no biggie. I was like Lizzy always talking to everyone. Upon telling my parents my father told me to never go on their property again...period. He also paid them a visit the next day. I don't know what was said, but felt bad that I had created so much havoc and didn't understand....and figured he thought I would get hurt rumbling around all the junk. He must of known something, because many a neighbor bandaged a finger or knee or let us onto their property to pet the horses, etc. I liken it to the The Little Rascals.. We were into everything.

O/T

My fav: Kids think Uncle George is a cannibal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WXj13J59S24

 

[JaimeInLA]

That might well be the simplest answer to what happened, but if does require the fact that a murderer just happened to be on that isolated section of the trail, at the fairly deserted park, exactly when the children just happened to be riding there.

Perhaps the children rode their bikes straight to the trail and, when they entered the double fence area, they were intercepted by one or two predators. They were forced to put their bikes at the gate, go through the gate, walk along the lake shore and vanish into a vehicle parked in Maiden Lane.

Not in my scenario. In my scenario, they were told to go there by someone they knew and trusted.

 

[Marilynilpa]

That might well be the simplest answer to what happened, but if does require the fact that a murderer just happened to be on that isolated section of the trail, at the fairly deserted park, exactly when the children just happened to be riding there.

Perhaps the children rode their bikes straight to the trail and, when they entered the double fence area, they were intercepted by one or two predators. They were forced to put their bikes at the gate, go through the gate, walk along the lake shore and vanish into a vehicle parked in Maiden Lane.

BBM

It could also have happened that way if the girls knew their abductor(s), which is my theory (at the moment:what.

I don't feel this was a random abduction. JMO

 

[Confusion]

Well I made the wrong assumption too! I thought Sapphire was a she and the OTHER SS, (SierraShelby), is a he.

Guess we were both wrong! :floorlaugh:

I not only thought Sapphire was a she, I thought Sapphire said she was a single mother. :waitasec:

 

[tlcya]

It seems like a fairly simple problem to solve ... we aren't really supposed to be discussing other posters, are we? Also, the anonymity of referring to the cyclist as "the cyclist" avoids any possibility of discussing other posters ... just my 2 cents.

I was guilty of shortening pre new verified member but have simply made sure post new verified member that I refer to the members by their full username or by quoting the post of theirs I am responding to. just to avoid confusing others.

 

[otto]

Not in my scenario. In my scenario, they were told to go there by someone they knew and trusted.

Even if they were lured there (perhaps by a stranger), it still requires that one or two murderers just happened to be at the correct isolated section of the mostly deserted park at the exact correct time to intercept the girls.

 

[otto]

BBM

It could also have happened that way if the girls knew their abductor(s), which is my theory (at the moment:what.

I don't feel this was a random abduction. JMO

I don't see any reason that the girls had to know the person that lured them to the park. All it would take is for someone to ask the girls if they were heading down to the big children's party at the SE tip of the lake.