IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[Squeeze]

After all of this time, I think if someone was going to crack they would have already done so. JMO

Of course, if LE hasn't questioned this "follower" yet, maybe he still feels safe. Perhaps he won't crack until LE closes in on him and his "leader."

See that's what I'm thinking., that if LE questions this person, it might not take much to make him/her talk. But until then, he/she might think they're safe and LE doesn't suspect anything.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Anyone else think this is probably the fisherman who Tammy talked to who said he'd been there "a long time"?

I would call it "a long time" if he'd already been there at the time SS was there and then still around 3 when Tammy spoke to him.

SS said he saw two adults, Tammy talked to a little boy.

You're right, that would have been a long time for a little boy to be fishing alone!

 

[threecrazykids]

Maybe because it would have to wait until after the trial is over, and by that time, there is little media attention. Part of this reward was for simply finding the girls, wasn't it?? Not tied to an arrest and conviction??? Did we ever hear if the hunters that found the bodies will get part of the reward money?

The newest addition to the original reward is simply for an arrest in the case. Not based on conviction...just whomever provides information that leads to an arrest!:rocker:

 

[threecrazykids]

SS said he saw two adults, Tammy talked to a little boy.

You're right, that would have been a long time for a little boy to be fishing alone!

There was 2...and suddenly there was one?...:waitasec:

Maybe it's the same boat...2 people on...go let one off at the drain gate...get the girls into the car that has been parked over on Maiden lane. Second fisherman stays behind to stage bikes and be the look out to let the perp know when LE shows up via cell phone.

Get's questioned by LE..."nope...saw nothing".

SS saw 2 fisherman.

Tammy says 1. (Not being mean...I promise...but I can't be 100% certain that the person Tammy saw fishing was really a little boy).

For 1...define little. Little to me equals an age an adult should be with them.
Teenager? Not little to me...and fully capable of maneuvering a jon boat to assist in a getaway. JMO, not being argumentative just saying that Tammy's definition of "little" could possibly be an excitable comment or just another description that is relative.

Also...I just find it damned hard to believe that now we know at least 3 people were fishing there at the time of this abduction, yet no one confirms ever seeing these girls at the lake. I'm not buying it. Someone had to have seen something...

 

[Marilynilpa]

The newest addition to the original reward is simply for an arrest in the case. Not based on conviction...just whomever provides information that leads to an arrest!:rocker:

Thanks for that reminder, I'd forgotten about that.

So if someone provides information leading to an arrest in this case, they get the reward. Okay. But what happens if the arrest doesn't lead to a conviction? Then there is no reward money to offer for information :waitasec:leading to the arrest of a new suspect.

Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[watcher9]

Thanks for that reminder, I'd forgotten about that.

So if someone provides information leading to an arrest in this case, they get the reward. Okay. But what happens if the arrest doesn't lead to a conviction? Then there is no reward money to offer for information :waitasec:leading to the arrest of a new suspect.

Am I understanding that correctly?

I'm still reading in the old thread so I'm way behind.
I'm jumping off of this post to reply to one of your posts in that thread.

You mentioned that the girls probably didn't have an idea of what time it was.
Are there any clocks/temperature signs at the bank, drug store or somewhere around town that the girls could have seen? Did either of the girls have a watch on?

 

[MNDad]

CoeTrawk? He posted photographs.

I see someone beat me to it - CoeTrawk.

If that isn't it, I can go back to older threads and check around. I'm just killing time until The Mentalist comes on at 10 p.m. (I have a crush on Patrick Jane:blushing

That was it. Now to figure out what I was trying to remember. :blushing:

 

[threecrazykids]

Thanks for that reminder, I'd forgotten about that.

So if someone provides information leading to an arrest in this case, they get the reward. Okay. But what happens if the arrest doesn't lead to a conviction? Then there is no reward money to offer for information :waitasec:leading to the arrest of a new suspect.

Am I understanding that correctly?

IMO they won't make an arrest until they have everything they possibly can to get a conviction with next to no doubt. Now...every case (as we know) can lead to an acquittal, but I think they will have their ducks all lined up before an arrest is made.

Also...I don't follow a lot of cases, but how many times does a case go to trial for a particular defendant, then upon an acquittal, they charge and try someone else for murder 1? Just curious...

I don't think once they arrest and go to trial they will try anyone else if no one is found guilty. DA would have to have a whole new case built I would think...right?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm still reading in the old thread so I'm way behind.
I'm jumping off of this post to reply to one of your posts in that thread.

You mentioned that the girls probably didn't have an idea of what time it was.
Are there any clocks/temperature signs at the bank, drug store or somewhere around town that the girls could have seen? Did either of the girls have a watch on?

I don't have a link handy, but I recall hearing that neither girl wore a watch. As to clocks/temperature signs, I really don't know. That's a great question!

 

[Marilynilpa]

IMO they won't make an arrest until they have everything they possibly can to get a conviction with next to no doubt. Now...every case (as we know) can lead to an acquittal, but I think they will have their ducks all lined up before an arrest is made.

Also...I don't follow a lot of cases, but how many times does a case go to trial for a particular defendant, then upon an acquittal, they charge and try someone else for murder 1? Just curious...

I don't think once they arrest and go to trial they will try anyone else if no one is found guilty. DA would have to have a whole new case built I would think...right?

I find it odd, though, that the reward is offered for info only leading to an arrest - usually rewards are offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of a perp.

You're right, I doubt any arrest would be made without solid evidence, so the reward question probably isn't relevant in this case.

 

[otto]

Before I'm ready to start chasing invisible boats, big noisy trucks and fisherman, how did the girls get from Brovan to the SE tip of the lake, toss their bikes in the middle of the trail and vanish in 4, 5, 8 minutes?

 

[otto]

I don't have a link handy, but I recall hearing that neither girl wore a watch. As to clocks/temperature signs, I really don't know. That's a great question!

If the cell phone could make 911 calls, wouldn't it also function as a clock?

Most children have been socialized, through school schedules, to have lunch at the same time of day ... so they often get hungry at that time of day. I don't see any reason for a 10 year old child, described as "adult-like" in previous threads, to be incapable of paying attention to time.

 

[hollyblue]

Not natural is right IMO. Seems like the bikes were pointing to the lake. Intentionally is my guess. IMO

Maybe they pulled up closer to the gate to speak to someone there on the other side? I could see that.

Wonder if SS saw an open gate there or was it closed?

 

[Marilynilpa]

If the cell phone could make 911 calls, wouldn't it also function as a clock?

I really don't know . . . it's seems likely, though.

 

[otto]

I really don't know . . . it's seems likely, though.

I've never seen a cell phone that doesn't have a clock. Even the early models had a clock. We know that Elizabeth could make 911 calls with her phone, so she could also have checked the time.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Before I'm ready to start chasing invisible boats, big noisy trucks and fisherman, how did the girls get from Brovan to the SE tip of the lake, toss their bikes in the middle of the trail and vanish in 4, 5, 8 minutes?

That's the same question I've been trying to answer, especially if the 12:23 sighting is accurate. Even if it isn't accurate, and we're working off of the 12:19 (12:11 + 8 minutes per Mr. Pahl) time on the surveillance video, is it possible for the girls to get there and vanish prior to TG's sighting?

 

[otto]

Maybe they pulled up closer to the gate to speak to someone there on the other side? I could see that.

Wonder if SS saw an open gate there or was it closed?

Even if the children encountered someone on the trail, they still had to ride more than a mile, put down their bikes and completely vanish in less than 8 minutes. How could that happen? If they were abducted somewhere else, there is no possible way that their bikes were on the trail in less than 8 minutes.

 

[threecrazykids]

Before I'm ready to start chasing invisible boats, big noisy trucks and fisherman, how did the girls get from Brovan to the SE tip of the lake, toss their bikes in the middle of the trail and vanish in 4, 5, 8 minutes?

Via vehicle, no idea. If they were picked up at the corner of Brovan how long does it take to drive to the lake?

Again...huge assumption, but possible I suppose that the bikes were put in the back of a vehicle.

I'm with you otto...the timeline isn't adding up.

 

[otto]

That's the same question I've been trying to answer, especially if the 12:23 sighting is accurate. Even if it isn't accurate, and we're working off of the 12:19 (12:11 + 8 minutes per Mr. Pahl) time on the surveillance video, is it possible for the girls to get there and vanish prior to TG's sighting?

I can't see any way for a 4'1", 8-year old child to ride a BMX more than a mile, ride around to the SE tip of the lake, drop her bike in the middle of the trail and simply vanish in less than 8 minutes.

The time for the video is 12:11 + 8 (for being slow). The earliest time for the cyclist reporting bikes on the trail is 12:27. Everything has to have happened in less than 8 minutes, and I just don't see that as a possibility.

 

[otto]

Via vehicle, no idea? If they were picked up at the corner of Brovan how long does it take to drive to the lake?

Again...huge assumption, but possible I suppose that the bikes were put in the back of a vehicle.

I'm with you otto...the timeline isn't adding up.

If the children were last seen at 12:19, then abducted, the bikes loaded into the vehicle, driven to Maiden Lane, the girls subdued, the bikes carried to the trail ... no way could that all happen in less than 8 minutes.