IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[cluciano63]

I've been watching a lot of crime flix on Netflix lately such as Solved; Disappeared; and Extreme Forensics and there was a murder case from Iowa on Extreme Forensics and to watch LE and the FBI put that case together in order to get a conviction was extremely pain staking. They didn't even have a body at the time they started to put the case together but LE knew who was responsible, busted the two responsible on different charges, put pressure on one perp to blow the whistle on the other perp, and just as they were getting ready to charge them another state came forward with the body. The two perps had dismembered the gentleman and put his head in a bucket of cement which they left in a parking lot in MO. That was the icing on the cake. It took LE and the FBI two or so years to put that case together, but in the meantime the perps were already sitting in jail on different charges. This was a real case file but I will say that the Iowa Bureau of Investigations did an excellent job putting the case together but the general public doesn't have the foggiest idea just what all is involved in building a case. For those who have Netflix check those titles out, they are real case files and very interesting of how they build a case with very llittle evidence.

I think that most, or at least many of us here, watch true crime shows. I know it is painstaking and tedious to make a case.

The problem is that silence from LE can mean one of two things; they are building a case, as you say, or they are stymied. We have no way of knowing, as outwardly, it all looks the same.

 

[Considering]

Okay...had never seen that link...

So how many "quote", as in: "quote", "coincidences" (in quotes) does it take to not make certain things coincidences ??

I really don't know...but too many "coincidences" at a certain point?...

Do we need to call in the TV show "Numb3rs" fellow?

What would a robberty suspect breaking out of the Black Hawk County Jail in Waterloo on Thursday have to do with the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth in Evansdale on Friday? He was back in custody on Friday morning.

 

[alliemay]

Can't sleep, I guess because I'm thinking of these cases. This site can be addicting some day's, but then again so is wanting justice for the innocent.

My brain is stuck for some reason on the image of the video's of the searches and of the vigil. I have heard stories of firefighters who will deliberately start fires and then go and help put out that fire. Part of me wonders if the person who did this may have been there helping with the search. In five months I don't even know how many searches they did and what area's they chose to search.

I still can't figure out if this person was known to them, maybe they had seen him before, maybe they knew him well, maybe they knew him in passing.

I wonder also if this person was even in system, look how long Sandusky got away with it.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Gravity. Keep me where the light is. John Mayer. Heavy heart right now for all of the family.

Gravity by John Mayer - YouTube

 

[GrainneDhu]

Can't sleep, I guess because I'm thinking of these cases. This site can be addicting some day's, but then again so is wanting justice for the innocent.

My brain is stuck for some reason on the image of the video's of the searches and of the vigil. I have heard stories of firefighters who will deliberately start fires and then go and help put out that fire. Part of me wonders if the person who did this may have been there helping with the search. In five months I don't even know how many searches they did and what area's they chose to search.

I still can't figure out if this person was known to them, maybe they had seen him before, maybe they knew him well, maybe they knew him in passing.

I wonder also if this person was even in system, look how long Sandusky got away with it.

There were searches conducted by volunteers for the first weekend and they covered 12 square miles. I am hugely impressed with those volunteers, it was hot as all get out and searching through crop fields is gruelling.

Sandusky had more smarts than this perp. Or else what scratched Sandusky's itch was way different from what this perp wanted. While the word pedophile is thrown around in ways that are not quite accurate, in Sandusky's case, I think he truly was a pedophile. I doubt that even now he realises that what he did was damaging to his victims; in his worldview, what he did was motivated out of twisted love and he can rationalise it by all the good stuff he gave them.

It's possible that in this case, the perp or perps aren't really pedophiles but were just looking for two accessible victims. And that is where I'd start looking. Not just at crimes with child victims but also at crimes involving adults with physical disabilities or people frail with age.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if there is a connection to elderly women who have been raped and/or beaten for no discernible reason. Particularly the latter.

 

[Dr. Know?]

The perp(s) I have in mind has experienced lately failed relationships. Bad relationships due to feeling inferior possibly. This person is trying to heal his or hers own problems and has caused themselves a heck of a lot of more problems. They didn't do it would be the response I'd expect. Young in age, under 25 possibly. Their admission of guilt would be limited and brief. Nail em.

jmo Psychopath

 

[Bootsctr]

Okay...had never seen that link...

So how many "quote", as in: "quote", "coincidences" (in quotes) does it take to not make certain things coincidences ??

I really don't know...but too many "coincidences" at a certain point?...

Do we need to call in the TV show "Numb3rs" fellow?

I'm sure it is just a coincidence, but how many of Black Hawk's LE were involved in taking this guy back down? They cover both Waterloo and Evansdale. Maybe that is why Heather went in person to report the girls missing and wanted to make sure LE knew this was serious. She knew about the previous chase to get this prisoner back in custody. Certainly a perp about town might have known LE was pretty much otherwise engaged the morning of the 13th with the escapee, saw the girls and thought the timing was perfect. Just know where I live anytime a prisoner escapees, warnings are sent out to get indoors, lock your doors and don't let anyone in. Probably just a coincidence this guy escaping, but just can't help thinking LE might have been distracted by the escape at least for a few hours. Might not hurt to call that "Numb3rs" fellow after all...

 

[Bootsctr]

Super OT, but everyone seems to be bored, so to pass the time, here is a live kitten cam. Enjoy!

http://new.livestream.com/FosterKittenCam/RipleysKittens

Thank you! They are adorable!! Makes me think of Lyric and how she must have loved kittens. You can see Lyric's coloring pages of kittens on Amanda's amazing site:

http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...lizabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-

In hindsight, Lyric's name is part of what drew me to this case. I love her name.... Lyric. Beautiful name and beautiful children, such a sad ending.

 

[otto]

I'm sure it is just a coincidence, but how many of Black Hawk's LE were involved in taking this guy back down? They cover both Waterloo and Evansdale. Maybe that is why Heather went in person to report the girls missing and wanted to make sure LE knew this was serious. She knew about the previous chase to get this prisoner back in custody. Certainly a perp about town might have known LE was pretty much otherwise engaged the morning of the 13th with the escapee, saw the girls and thought the timing was perfect. Just know where I live anytime a prisoner escapees, warnings are sent out to get indoors, lock your doors and don't let anyone in. Probably just a coincidence this guy escaping, but just can't help thinking LE might have been distracted by the escape at least for a few hours. Might not hurt to call that "Numb3rs" fellow after all...

BBM

I don't think it's possible to make a missing person's report over the phone or internet.

 

[threecrazykids]

Oh here is the link to the article I mentioned above... the RSO commented on it (initials DF) if u scroll down.. 1st comment. Click his name & takes u to his fb page. Pls check out.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Five-Arrested-In-Black-Hawk-County-For-Making-Meth-121024924.html

He doesn't throw up any red flags for me personally. His victim was 18+, no weapon, etc. That to me doesn't indicate someone who is interested in a child. I don't know what his case was about but more than likely 2 adults in some sort of relationship/friendship was involved. Total guess by me, but I don't think he's our guy.

 

[threecrazykids]

I've been watching a lot of crime flix on Netflix lately such as Solved; Disappeared; and Extreme Forensics and there was a murder case from Iowa on Extreme Forensics and to watch LE and the FBI put that case together in order to get a conviction was extremely pain staking. They didn't even have a body at the time they started to put the case together but LE knew who was responsible, busted the two responsible on different charges, put pressure on one perp to blow the whistle on the other perp, and just as they were getting ready to charge them another state came forward with the body. The two perps had dismembered the gentleman and put his head in a bucket of cement which they left in a parking lot in MO. That was the icing on the cake. It took LE and the FBI two or so years to put that case together, but in the meantime the perps were already sitting in jail on different charges. This was a real case file but I will say that the Iowa Bureau of Investigations did an excellent job putting the case together but the general public doesn't have the foggiest idea just what all is involved in building a case. For those who have Netflix check those titles out, they are real case files and very interesting of how they build a case with very llittle evidence.

Am I the only person who thinks this is exactly the problem with the system?! Good God, why do we put our public safety resources through such tedious, rigorous activities that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to "prove a case". :banghead:

The family (and public) shouldn't HAVE to wait 5 years for LE to build a case the way they do. It's the way the law works, though. They have to waste their time getting every stinkin' molecule of evidence processed, explained, backed by professionals, etc. because they KNOW some damn lawyer is going to object the hell out of any possible shred of evidence they can. So frustrating.

And THEN...if one teeny bit of evidence doesn't settle juuuuuusssttt right - ACQUITTED! That is NOT how it should work. If 99.9% of the evidence proves you did it, then THAT is what should seal a deal...not spending the resources trying their damndest to make it 100% fool proof.

So upsetting.

 

[threecrazykids]

Nationwide, there are over 400,000 rape kits that have not yet been processed.

Part of the problem is financial. Forensic testing of one single rape kit costs $1500 or more. There are too many places where there just isn't the budget to process every rape kit, so police make judgment calls and only process the ones associated with the "best" cases. This means that cases that won't be an easy prosecution tend to be thrown through the cracks (I almost wrote "fall through the cracks" but it's no fall, it's a deliberate decision). Only 24% of all rapes reported to the police are ever prosecuted, the lowest rate for any major crime.

This is really chilling since most rapists have more than one victim. Date rape is often considered a difficult case to prosecute, for instance. But research shows that yes, date rapists are just like your average rapist in that they tend to be serial offenders. They are often rapists who are bright enough to analyse the flaws in the system and conduct themselves in such a way as to maximise their chances of walking away without penalty.

Part of the problem is that there is a vast shortage of forensic labs in this country. There are only so many lab techs qualified to run the tests and they can only run so many tests each.

Part of the shortage of qualified lab techs is the increasing costs associated with post-high school education. When people have to take out huge loans to get through college, they are pushed towards higher paying careers out of economic necessity.

There's all sorts of reasons why rape kits aren't being processed in a timely manner and they all come down to money. There's practically a national hysteria over sexual predators but when it comes down to actually putting our money where our mouths are... well not so much.

Exactly! More money is spent defending these people than processing the evidence against them.:banghead:

 

[MNDad]

He doesn't throw up any red flags for me personally. His victim was 18+, no weapon, etc. That to me doesn't indicate someone who is interested in a child. I don't know what his case was about but more than likely 2 adults in some sort of relationship/friendship was involved. Total guess by me, but I don't think he's our guy.

I tend to agree. I don't want to rule out anyone, but this particular guy had one offense and it was 13 years ago. Plus, as you pointed out, it was an adult victim. It looks like he has a family with young children now and although that alone doesn't mean that he is an upstanding citizen, it might indicate that no one of authority is concerned with him being around children. It never hurts to call attention to him and have him checked out, but I personally don't think this is our guy either.

 

[jenandemmie]

Ok, I went back to the arrest records for Black Hawk county to look for any arrests that stood out. I recall some limited discussion in an earlier thread on JLB, 24, arrested in August for enticement of a child, attempted enticement of a child and two counts of sexual abuse in the 3rd degree. Apparently, he met a 12 year old on a social media site and drove from Central City to Waterloo to have sex with her, twice. Since this technically makes him a Sex Offender, can we discuss/sleuth him? I already have but I'm wondering if I can post some of my findings in general terms, or do we have to wait until he is officially registered as a sex offender before we can discuss him in detail? Is that why I couldn't find much discussion on him (I admit limited searching capacity on my device). Does anyone recall off hand if the discussion on him just died naturally or did mods shut down the discussion?

 

[Fukiyama]

Am I the only person who thinks this is exactly the problem with the system?! Good God, why do we put our public safety resources through such tedious, rigorous activities that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to "prove a case". :banghead:

The family (and public) shouldn't HAVE to wait 5 years for LE to build a case the way they do. It's the way the law works, though. They have to waste their time getting every stinkin' molecule of evidence processed, explained, backed by professionals, etc. because they KNOW some damn lawyer is going to object the hell out of any possible shred of evidence they can. So frustrating.

And THEN...if one teeny bit of evidence doesn't settle juuuuuusssttt right - ACQUITTED! That is NOT how it should work. If 99.9% of the evidence proves you did it, then THAT is what should seal a deal...not spending the resources trying their damndest to make it 100% fool proof.

So upsetting.

1. Did Miranda and cases like it go too far? Probably, yes.

2. Should ten guilty men go free rather than one innocent man go to jail? Yes, that is basic to our system of justice.

How do we swing the pendulum back towards fighting crime effectively without violating point two?

As for your last paragraph, we have to accept that people are just stupid. A single iota of doubt does not equal reasonable doubt.

 

[threecrazykids]

Ok, I went back to the arrest records for Black Hawk county to look for any arrests that stood out. I recall some limited discussion in an earlier thread on JLB, 24, arrested in August for enticement of a child, attempted enticement of a child and two counts of sexual abuse in the 3rd degree. Apparently, he met a 12 year old on a social media site and drove from Central City to Waterloo to have sex with her, twice. Since this technically makes him a Sex Offender, can we discuss/sleuth him? I already have but I'm wondering if I can post some of my findings in general terms, or do we have to wait until he is officially registered as a sex offender before we can discuss him in detail? Is that why I couldn't find much discussion on him (I admit limited searching capacity on my device). Does anyone recall off hand if the discussion on him just died naturally or did mods shut down the discussion?

Why isn't he a RSO? Is he still awaiting trial? Arrest and conviction are I'm guessing what separates the two...if found guilty he would for sure be on the registry. I am going to guess that if he isn't registered the mods will be very particular about what we can post. For example...you should be able to post links to MSM articles about the arrest. Maybe not...but relevant arrests are worth looking into I think!

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Since it has been discussed a little today, I'll clarify a few things.

First, this is Lyric's Facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/lyric.morrissey

The photo is Selena Gomez, a TV star. That is not Lyric.

In July 2011, someone using Lyric's FB signed up for a dating site called Zoosk. It appears in her Facebook wall timeline. I created a Zoosk account yesterday and went looking for Lyric. You can search by area. I found an account under Lyric's mother's name. The profile photo for the account is the same pic of Selena Gomez.

The profile lists the age for her mother as 34. It also shows that she is separated, drinks and smokes socially and is looking for a man.

The site allows you to send messages, chat, browse photos of users, etc. It even will send you alerts when someone checks your profile. It actually shows you who was checking, too. It also shows you which users are logged in and using the site. I was surprised that so many men seemed to be sitting on their computers using the site.

To browse for men in the area, I changed my Zoosk profile to a woman looking for a man. There were a lot of creepy-looking individuals within 5 miles of the Evansdale/Waterloo area. Five of them clicked on my profile.

I was very tired yesterday. So I made a few small errors when I first reported this information here. Fortunately, the wife let me sleep in til 10 a.m. today! One of the errors was that I initially said it was Lyric's account. That seems to be only half correct. It is actually under her mother's name, but I think that all of the info points to Lyric creating it herself. I also initially said that the age on the profile was 37. It is actually 34.

It has been discussed before. But I'll rehash. Some believe that Lyric was attempting to pick out a man for her mother or was trying to set up her mother for a date. There was nothing on her profile, though, to suggest that she had been an active user. I believe it showed that she received a digital rose from someone. I wasn't able to see who sent it.

My intuition tells me that the site itself probably has nothing to do with the disappearance of the two girls. But I wouldn't rule it out completely. Certainly, there are some creepy men on there. It certainly creates a means of communication between Lyric and potential RSOs in the area. It's also possible that it is only one of several sites that Lyric visited.


The above was posted by HeinekenMan in July. If true, it would seem to suggest that Lyric was somewhat knowledgeable with respect to social media/creating accounts. LE took family computers and I would assume anything untoward would have been discovered by LE. But...who knows? Just throwing this out there in response to Jenandemmie's post.

 

[hollyblue]

Prag, you post makes me question what could be on Tammy's girl's computer. Did Lyric (and Misty) spend the night there often and her and K explore the net, etc? Would a judge allow a search warrant for their computers as well?

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Prag, you post makes me question what could be on Tammy's girl's computer. Did Lyric (and Misty) spend the night there often and her and K explore the net, etc? Would a judge allow a search warrant for their computers as well?

I was wondering the same thing. When I read Jenandemmie's post, it triggered a memory for me about Lyric and a dating site discussed on here. I searched for it and found it very easily. It's interesting, to be sure. I hope they took all family computers/smartphones so that this didn't slip through the cracks somehow.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I was wondering the same thing. When I read Jenandemmie's post, it triggered a memory for me about Lyric and a dating site discussed on here. I searched for it and found it very easily. It's interesting, to be sure. I hope they took all family computers/smartphones so that this didn't slip through the cracks somehow.

On second thought, I have no idea if this could have maybe even been done on a friend of Lyric's computer. Maybe Lyriic was sleeping over at a girlfriend's home and the girls decided to have a little fun. I think girls are bolder (and a bit more ornery) when they are together as opposed to alone.