IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[Dr. Know?]

They found the girls remains on Dec. 5th. That was a on a Wed. and released the site Dec. 10th. 5 days verses Caylee's site which was released on the 8th day, iirc. Not many pictures of the site but it looked like it had been stipped some of growth.

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...-investigation-into-missing-cousins-continues

 

[cluciano63]

A lot depends on whether or not the perp is in the system.
Hoping he is not one of the many on backlog status, awaiting entry into a data base. All states should get emergency funding, IMO, to catch up on DNA entry for felons or sex offenders, as per their laws..

 

[Dr. Know?]

Iowa has a different way of collecting DNA from criminals so many aren't in the system. SO's are in all 50 states but not all of the criminals have DNA taken. Scroll down a little bit.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/case/revolution/databases.html

 

[CHERIE.T]

:floorlaugh: I believe me and you are on the same :rollercoaster: I know we are :deadhorse: but the "facts" in this case are driving me to :needdrink: The more I think about it, the less I understand. Before I throw in the :whiteflag: I'm not going to anic: I'm going to let the good :nurse: give me a :chillpill: and I'm going to ride the :bananalama: before I have a :laughcry:

Lololol priceless! :rocker::floorlaugh:

 

[Confusion]

to get verified as an insider, here is the process
If you would like to add youself as an expert in a certain field or an insider to a case, please contact Admin.

If you do not wish to be identified as an expert in a certain area, we only ask that you refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area.

If a member posts with "expertise" please check to make sure they are on this list. If not, please do not take their post as professional information, but rather just as another opinion ;much as you would with any member of the general posting membership.

Locals who are describing the area or are members of the gyms and that sort of thing do not need to be verified.

We only verify people who know the players or have been named in the media, etc.

If a member wants to post as a professional (a lawyer, shrink, and so on) or as a local/knows the people involved then they must email us at the following email:

wsverify@xmission.com

Please include:

The case
Your Websleuths name
Your phone number and a good time to call
Your real name.
In the subject line please put your user name and which case you are asking to be verified on.

All info will be kept strictly confidential.

I have a question about that. What if you're waiting to be verified in an area that nobody here is already verified in? How much "expert" information are you allowed to give without links before you get in trouble for it? :waitasec:

 

[Reverie]

Great post! It makes me wonder. I am not up to speed on exactly what happened after the girls' bodies were found.

Does anyone know if that site was examined as meticulously as say, Caylee A's? Sorry if it's a dumb question.

Per KWWL, the forensic search at 7 bridges park lasted about three days. Much less time required than for Caylee's crime scene. Am I wrong to feel hopeful that LE has more to work with in this case? Less scattering, more intact?

Any Iowans recall the first freeze last fall? Tia :seeya:

 

[GrainneDhu]

They had no idea who they were looking for at the time they sent the DNA, as far as I can recall, in Chelsea's' case. They were lucky he was an ex-con and in the system.

I didn't follow that case; I thought you meant the unknown sample had been matched to Chelsea herself.

In state matches are easier to run than out of state matches. If they had a lot of DNA to play with, they may have set up a few different tests and hit it lucky with the first.

 

[cluciano63]

I didn't follow that case; I thought you meant the unknown sample had been matched to Chelsea herself.

In state matches are easier to run than out of state matches. If they had a lot of DNA to play with, they may have set up a few different tests and hit it lucky with the first.

No, they knew the underpants were hers; they ran them hoping for perp DNA and got very lucky indeed. And ultimately the perp confessed to murdering Amber DuBois as well and leading them to her body (which never would have been found otherwise, IMO),

ETA Sorry to veer into another case here, it started with the DNA conversation.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

No, they knew the underpants were hers; they ran them hoping for perp DNA and got very lucky indeed. And ultimately the perp confessed to murdering Amber DuBois as well and leading them to her body (which never would have been found otherwise, IMO),

ETA Sorry to veer into another case here, it started with the DNA conversation.

But, since we did veer... there are case archives for both Chelsea King and Amber Dubois here:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/

Just follow the alphabetical list down to the case you want to look at.

 

[hollyblue]

BBM

My cynical point of view is that Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department drained the lake partially because of the liability it would have faced by not doing so. If Meyers Lake had not been drained, and the girls' bodies were later found in the lake, any resulting lawsuits would have caused the County's liability insurance premiums through the roof. JMO.

I don't believe LE's early focus on the lake is a sign that they weren't also diligently pursuing other possibilities.

That and more just happened in the Joshua Swalls case in Indianapolis. A search was done in a small retention pond after business owners called in a tip of shoes being found at a dumpster and outside their business. During that search they only found a jacket in the pond. Weeks later someone saw a body floating in the pond. LE stated they didn't think the person had been in there that long ...THEN the ME tells the family it was not him. The next day, after a more thorough looksee and dental records they find it is in fact Joshua. The family has yet to view the jacket, LE is calling it an accidental drowning and the family is getting no where with LE nor by a letter to the mayor. The poor family is living a nightmare. AND there was another young man found dead under very mysterious circumstance around the same time and iirc, within a mile or two of where Joshua was found. It too was labelled an accidental death....and this guy had a 1 sec call to 911 found as his last call. It also was an "accidental call"!!!

 

[kellbabs]

Especially with all of the LE in the area at that time.

This may seem like quite a stretch, but it's really disturbing to me that the RSO, who lived on River Forest at the time of their disappearance, relocated to St. Olaf, IA approx. 2 wks afterward!

If anyone has googled this person and the new address it seems weird in MHO. I wonder if it is a family farm or something of the sort? There are several outbuildings and looks to include at least a couple addresses. Could have been the opportune place to take them after kidnapping. Also googled his original River Forest Rd address & it was an apartment complex that was the sight of a meth lab bust around the middle of 2011. If this was an address that Lyrics parents could've bought or dealt meth, then its possible that at least Lyric had been there and gotten familiar with other tenants while that was going down. I read that there were other children who lived in this complex as well. But, this particular RSO has a fb page, and appears to be an avid hunter (bow & arrow)... since his offense was in Bremer Co... may very well be familiar with 7 Bridges. Hoping someone else may have checked this out as well and have an opinion as well?? This is totally my opinion & I've seen lots of other ideas that seem very plausible & maybe even tie in with this. The idea of 2 perps is something Im mulling over as well. Thoughts anyone please???

 

[Sere-nity]

I cannot remember -- does anyone remember if we discussed a male with the initials of JH?

 

[kellbabs]

Oh here is the link to the article I mentioned above... the RSO commented on it (initials DF) if u scroll down.. 1st comment. Click his name & takes u to his fb page. Pls check out.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Five-Arrested-In-Black-Hawk-County-For-Making-Meth-121024924.html

 

[hollyblue]

A lot depends on whether or not the perp is in the system.
Hoping he is not one of the many on backlog status, awaiting entry into a data base. All states should get emergency funding, IMO, to catch up on DNA entry for felons or sex offenders, as per their laws..

Since it would only have to be handled once, I don't understand why there would be a backlog, tbh. Are they still going back to old cases to enter...or are there truly that many felonies and perps being caught?
Some places like Detroit, LA, Miami or NYC I could maybe understand. ???

 

[hollyblue]

This may seem like quite a stretch, but it's really disturbing to me that the RSO, who lived on River Forest at the time of their disappearance, relocated to St. Olaf, IA approx. 2 wks afterward!

If anyone has googled this person and the new address it seems weird in MHO. I wonder if it is a family farm or something of the sort? There are several outbuildings and looks to include at least a couple addresses. Could have been the opportune place to take them after kidnapping. Also googled his original River Forest Rd address & it was an apartment complex that was the sight of a meth lab bust around the middle of 2011. If this was an address that Lyrics parents could've bought or dealt meth, then its possible that at least Lyric had been there and gotten familiar with other tenants while that was going down. I read that there were other children who lived in this complex as well. But, this particular RSO has a fb page, and appears to be an avid hunter (bow & arrow)... since his offense was in Bremer Co... may very well be familiar with 7 Bridges. Hoping someone else may have checked this out as well and have an opinion as well?? This is totally my opinion & I've seen lots of other ideas that seem very plausible & maybe even tie in with this. The idea of 2 perps is something Im mulling over as well. Thoughts anyone please???

Call it in. They may have already checked it out, but it doesn't hurt, imo.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM

My cynical point of view is that Black Hawk County Sheriff's Department drained the lake partially because of the liability it would have faced by not doing so. If Meyers Lake had not been drained, and the girls' bodies were later found in the lake, any resulting lawsuits would have caused the County's liability insurance premiums through the roof. JMO.

I don't believe LE's early focus on the lake is a sign that they weren't also diligently pursuing other possibilities.

BBM

I absolutely agree with the bolded statement. In some of the media articles, they mentioned other avenues of investigation that were going on that week such as traffic checks.

Maybe I'm unduly naive but to me, draining the pond was just the Iowa thing to do. It was possible to do it and if the girls weren't discovered quickly, it would set the families' minds at ease on that one point, which is worth a lot.

I used to live in Iowa City and it was fairly routine for the Iowa River to be drained down to less than 3 feet so that firefighters could walk the river shoulder to shoulder looking for drowning victims. It didn't happen every summer but probably at least once every five years. I don't remember exactly how old I was the first time I saw it but it was undoubtedly sometime in the 1960s, which was long before the US became so prone to filing suit.

Over in the Amanas, there's a canal that is a danger to swimmers because the current is so fast. And that canal has also been drained down to check for drowning victims.

 

[Snowbunny]

I've been watching a lot of crime flix on Netflix lately such as Solved; Disappeared; and Extreme Forensics and there was a murder case from Iowa on Extreme Forensics and to watch LE and the FBI put that case together in order to get a conviction was extremely pain staking. They didn't even have a body at the time they started to put the case together but LE knew who was responsible, busted the two responsible on different charges, put pressure on one perp to blow the whistle on the other perp, and just as they were getting ready to charge them another state came forward with the body. The two perps had dismembered the gentleman and put his head in a bucket of cement which they left in a parking lot in MO. That was the icing on the cake. It took LE and the FBI two or so years to put that case together, but in the meantime the perps were already sitting in jail on different charges. This was a real case file but I will say that the Iowa Bureau of Investigations did an excellent job putting the case together but the general public doesn't have the foggiest idea just what all is involved in building a case. For those who have Netflix check those titles out, they are real case files and very interesting of how they build a case with very llittle evidence.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Since it would only have to be handled once, I don't understand why there would be a backlog, tbh. Are they still going back to old cases to enter...or are there truly that many felonies and perps being caught?
Some places like Detroit, LA, Miami or NYC I could maybe understand. ???

Nationwide, there are over 400,000 rape kits that have not yet been processed.

Part of the problem is financial. Forensic testing of one single rape kit costs $1500 or more. There are too many places where there just isn't the budget to process every rape kit, so police make judgment calls and only process the ones associated with the "best" cases. This means that cases that won't be an easy prosecution tend to be thrown through the cracks (I almost wrote "fall through the cracks" but it's no fall, it's a deliberate decision). Only 24% of all rapes reported to the police are ever prosecuted, the lowest rate for any major crime.

This is really chilling since most rapists have more than one victim. Date rape is often considered a difficult case to prosecute, for instance. But research shows that yes, date rapists are just like your average rapist in that they tend to be serial offenders. They are often rapists who are bright enough to analyse the flaws in the system and conduct themselves in such a way as to maximise their chances of walking away without penalty.

Part of the problem is that there is a vast shortage of forensic labs in this country. There are only so many lab techs qualified to run the tests and they can only run so many tests each.

Part of the shortage of qualified lab techs is the increasing costs associated with post-high school education. When people have to take out huge loans to get through college, they are pushed towards higher paying careers out of economic necessity.

There's all sorts of reasons why rape kits aren't being processed in a timely manner and they all come down to money. There's practically a national hysteria over sexual predators but when it comes down to actually putting our money where our mouths are... well not so much.

 

[Tucarra]

I agree. I think LE drained the lake because they HAD to. If they hadn't and somehow those girls washed up somewhere along the way, LE would have looked incompetent. They would have been clobbered for not eliminating the obvious first. I think LE was busy doing many other things while that lake was being drained...and they could do that easily because everyone was occupied with the developments at the lake.

Thanks for summarizing....

Yes, there is no way conceivable they could have not drained the lake...would be incompetent, and never forgiven, by anybody, anywhere...

And draining a lake has essentially "zero" resource pull on any LE activity...

So...just wish we would continue with honing in on whoever did this...

 

[Tucarra]

Don't forget about Black Hawk LE having to deal with a jail break the day before the girls' disappearance until he was caught some time Friday morning, July 13th after a high speed chase.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ne...cle_c0c1c09a-cc68-11e1-902e-001a4bcf887a.html

Okay...had never seen that link...

So how many "quote", as in: "quote", "coincidences" (in quotes) does it take to not make certain things coincidences ??

I really don't know...but too many "coincidences" at a certain point?...

Do we need to call in the TV show "Numb3rs" fellow?