IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[threecrazykids]

There appears to have been a post or 2 from SierraShelby that disappeared before he got verified. I did see Otto respond to one of those posts that gives me the impression what got zapped was that he rode around the lake to the restrooms and then left from the parking lot onto Gilbert. Then we have the rest of the route described in a later post.

I'll go back and find that post from Otto and add it in a sec.

ETA: Well, here's the post from SierraShelby that quotes the post I was thinking of from Otto. I can't find Otto's original post now.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

Thank you - that is the one I was reading as well. So, we may not have any record of the confirmed route by SS that includes his trip around the lake.

 

[otto]

Oh my, Whisperer you have brought up a very important point that I over looked completely. If TG rode past the bikes laying on their sides across the path and headed towards the restroom at the front of the lake, then he either backtracked past the bikes again or left via the street past Carpenters to get back on the trail. Either way, he was in the area of the abducted girls for quit a while. Did he back track past the bikes again?

This is the route that the cyclist posted a couple of weeks ago.

 

[otto]

I think that the girls were killed and taken to 7 bridges at different times.

Why? ...

 

[otto]

I don't know about that. Two bikes laying on a 10 ft wide path would almost take up the entire path if they weren't on top of each other. If you are bicycling past them, you may move them and wonder who owns them and where are they?

That place look deserted to me. Why leave the bikes in a path if you were riding there? Why not park the bikes? The path is narrow, you could easily prop up the bikes by the fence. I wonder if the bikes were thrown there by the perp...as he was in a hurry. He may have driven up to the gate and dumped the bikes.

The cyclist that saw two bikes on the path at about 12:20 (same time that the children were seen behind Cornbelt Auction) did not stop to move the bikes. He rode around them ... and apparently there was plenty of room to do that.

 

[cindersoot]

Why? ...

I think he transported one body at a time on different occasions. Hence the bodies distance apart. And most likely at night.

 

[otto]

Okay, so now I will look at the map to understand what SS (TG) is saying. So was it the fireman who picked up the bikes from the ground? Did he take a pic before he moved them?

There is no reason to assume that anyone picked up any bikes. The cyclist claims that he saw two bikes along the path at about 12:20. Cell phone records show him to be at the parking lot at Meyers Lake at 12:28. Photos of him talking with police are taken farther East than where the girl's bikes were found. A search and rescue person found the bikes at the drainage pipe gate at about 3:40 or 3:58, and when Abben arrived, he said that the bikes were leaning against the fence. There's no reason to assume that a trained search and rescue person would move the bikes or tamper with the evidence when two children were missing. The bikes were confirmed to be at the gate at 2:00 PM per a jogger (FBI statement).

 

[cindersoot]

There is no reason to assume that anyone picked up any bikes. The cyclist claims that he saw two bikes along the path at about 12:20. Cell phone records show him to be at the parking lot at Meyers Lake at 12:28. Photos of him talking with police are taken farther East than where the girl's bikes were found. A search and rescue person found the bikes at the drainage pipe gate at about 3:40 or 3:58, and when Abben arrived, he said that the bikes were leaning against the fence. There's no reason to assume that a trained search and rescue person would move the bikes or tamper with the evidence when two children were missing. The bikes were confirmed to be at the gate at 2:00 PM per a jogger (FBI statement).

Jogger/biker....never confirmed.

 

[Considering]

Jogger/biker....never confirmed.

The biker was never confirmed. The runner/jogger was mentioned by FBI spokeswoman, Sandra Breault:

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[foxbluff]

This is the route that the cyclist posted a couple of weeks ago.

Ty for reposting this wonderful map.

I have a question, but please don't answer it if you have to do more than click on this map link in order to answer.

You show TG approaching the lake area traveling west on Gilbert and then taking a left onto [no street name showing] and then a right onto Arbutus Ave.

BBM above: is that Evans?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Okay, so now I will look at the map to understand what SS (TG) is saying. So was it the fireman who picked up the bikes from the ground? Did he take a pic before he moved them?

No information has been released to the media as to who may have moved the bicycles. I infer that if the bicycles were moved, then LE must know who did it because they haven't made any appeal to find out who moved them.

There is a time problem with SierraShelby's account. According to LE, the girls were sighted on Brovan Blvd (very close to Elizabeth's home) at 12:23 pm. SierraShelby saw two bicycles on the trail shortly before he received a call on his cell phone at 12:27 pm.

The distance between Brovan and where the bicycles were found at Meyers Lake is over a mile. Cindersoot rode the most direct route between the two points on her own bicycle and did it in 8 minutes.

So... who knows? SierraShelby says he doesn't remember much specifically about the bicycles he saw, so he may have seen bicycles belonging to two other people. Or perhaps whoever placed the girls on Brovan at 12:23 pm was mistaken.

Many possibilities, not enough information.

 

[cindersoot]

The biker was never confirmed. The runner/jogger was mentioned by FBI spokeswoman, Sandra Breault:

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

I think she meant biker,.

 

[otto]

I think he transported one body at a time on different occasions. Hence the bodies distance apart. And most likely at night.

The bodies were found approximately 50 feet apart from each other, but I don't see how that implies anything about when the children were murdered or left at Seven Bridges County Park.

It seems to me that if one perp is going to murder two girls, the best way to control them is to separate them just far enough to ensure that they can't help each other - hence the 50 feet separation.

 

[otto]

Jogger/biker....never confirmed.

The cylcist was never confirmed.

The jogger was confirmed

 

[cindersoot]

The bodies were found approximately 50 feet apart from each other, but I don't see how that implies anything about when the children were murdered or left at Seven Bridges County Park.

It seems to me that if one perp is going to murder two girls, the best way to control them is to separate them just far enough to ensure that they can't help each other - hence the 50 feet separation.

There is nothing saying the girls were murdered at the park.

 

[otto]

Ty for reposting this wonderful map.

I have a question, but please don't answer it if you have to do more than click on this map link in order to answer.

You show TG approaching the lake area traveling west on Gilbert and then taking a left onto [no street name showing] and then a right onto Arbutus Ave.

BBM above: is that Evans?

The cyclist that posted here said that he rode around the lake on the Evansdale Nature Trail to the parking lot and then left the parking lot via Elmer, and turned East on Gilbert. He then headed North along the Nature Trail that ends at Lafayette.

He traveled East on Gilbert

 

[otto]

There is nothing saying the girls were murdered at the park.

There is no third crime scene at this time, so given the two crime scenes that we have, it's most likely that the children were murdered at the second crime scene where their bodies were found together.

 

[otto]

I think she meant biker,.

The FBI said jogger at 2:00 PM.
Why would you think the FBI really meant cyclist at 12:20?

That would be an awful lot of incorrect, sloppy facts for an FBI agent.

 

[cindersoot]

There is no third crime scene at this time, so given the two crime scenes that we have, it's most likely that the children were murdered at the second crime scene where their bodies were found together.

If there was a third crime scene, we might have our killer.

 

[ShyViolet]

Ty for reposting this wonderful map.

I have a question, but please don't answer it if you have to do more than click on this map link in order to answer.

You show TG approaching the lake area traveling west on Gilbert and then taking a left onto [no street name showing] and then a right onto Arbutus Ave.

BBM above: is that Evans?

Looks like Grand to me. Evans is two streets to the left on this map.

 

[otto]

If there was a third crime scene, we might have our killer.

At this time, there's no reason to assume that there is a third crime scene. We have the location where the bikes were found and the location where the bodies were found. There's a straight line between the two.