IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[otto]

Jumping off your post:

Thank you, I was thinking that way also. Just a thought here don't even know its possible. What if the girls got to the lake, before 12:20, laid their bikes down, went into the woods, adult riding his bike does not see girls if they are in the woods and swerves his bike around the their bikes. Girls come out of the woods and decide to ride back down the street, seen between 12:30 and 1:00, that's a half hour time frame. Then for whatever reason they decide to go back in the park again, maybe Elizabeth remembered she forgot her purse, or maybe someone asked them to help them look for something? Just some random thoughts here don't even know if its possible, trying like heck to get the time line to come together.

12:15: Brovan (video)
12:23: Brovan
12:30-1:00: Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus

They could not have been at the lake at 12:20.

 

[alliemay]

12:15: Brovan (video)
12:23: Brovan
12:30-1:00: Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus

They could not have been at the lake at 12:20.

Thanks Otto

 

[Bootsctr]

It would appear, IMO, that we are not going to have to suffer a lack of updates on E'dale's plans for the island! Construction for the path will begin as early as this week.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_d1d2d0b8-7e0b-11e2-8015-0019bb2963f4.html

<snipped>
Saturday&#8217;s vote covered the construction of a pedestrian trail connecting the small island to the shore. It will consist of a causeway with two culverts to allow the lake water to circulate, said Park Board President Jeff Dawson.

The path will connect with the rest of the bike trial that almost circles the lake. It will start at the shore about where the existing retaining wall ends, not far from where the Sherman tank sits.

<snipped> Dawson said Evansdale police said they would be able to patrol the island.

Board member Sandy Roberts said she received calls asking if the memorial will be paid for with tax dollars. Dawson said the cost of the memorial and improvements will be funded with donations, and parts will be completed with in-kind labor. <snipped>

Dawson said the parks department will have additional maintenance costs, but he said the benefits the city is receiving far outweigh the additional expenses.

Dona Frickson, president of the Evansdale Chamber of Commerce, said it is possible the fund could help pay for maintenance.

Additional plans for the memorial, which include erecting a gazebo on the island, would require further board action.

Board members also briefly discussed a resident question about removing ribbons at the park, but the board appeared to be in consensus that the ribbons should be left alone.

&#8220;The purple stands for justice, and we&#8217;re all waiting for that to happen,&#8221; Frickson said.

Thank you so much for this update Fox! :rocker: I would like to know how most locals feel about the memorial at the park. Would the money not be better used to place cameras around the bike trail and lights and cutting down the trees that obstructed the view of where the girls were abducted? Maybe local LE could drive through the park in that area A WHOLE LOT MORE?

I also ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY do not understand: "Dawson said the parks department will have additional maintenance costs, but he said the benefits the city is receiving far outweigh the additional expenses." How does a city benefit from having two little girls being snatched and murdered? Truly, I am not trying to be snarky here, but it almost sounds like Dawson is saying Lyric and Elizabeth's murder was good for the economy of Evansdale. . .

 

[foxbluff]

Did he call his daughter and mention the bikes?

:banghead:

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm beating a dead horse here...

I have a very low tolerance for heat and humidity. I think it's disgusting. In a my perfect version of the world, the temperature would always be 68 degrees and partly cloudy. I have an aunt who thinks that is disgustingly cold. She thrives on 85 degrees and higher. She loves the humidity. She's a runner. She'll run no matter how hot and humid it is. On days when I can barely stand to go out and get my mail, she still runs a few miles.

In Iowa, we wear shorts & t-shirts as soon as it hits 60. I can remember times when there has still been snow on the ground, but the temp hit 60 plus on a warm spring day. People still dressed like it were summer. We're thick-skinned here.

Years ago I went to Florida with a friend over spring break. We stayed with her aunt who lived there. It was March. We went to the beach in our bathing suits. Her aunt was horrified that we were going to the beach and only wearing bathing suits. She said, "It's winter, it's way too cold for the beach!" It was 80+ degrees that day.

Perspective is everything.

BBM. :what: OMG! Ashley, is your aunt the jogger?

 

[ashleyd8402]

BBM. :what: OMG! Ashley, is your aunt the jogger?

I wish! I would have so many questions for her if that were the case. Unfortunately she runs in a different town.

 

[Bootsctr]

My apologies as I don't know how to make meth. Yes, from this article it states lithium batteries not pills. I still don't see the conspiracy charge to manufacture on his court dockets.


In October, officers found Morrissey hiding in the porch of a vacant house and found additional drugs, including meth he said he was about to deliver, according to a criminal complaint. In December, police served a warrant at Morrissey's home in Waterloo and found meth-making materials such as lithium batteries and fuel. Morrissey and another man were charged with conspiracy to manufacture methamphetamines.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/lyric-cook-morrissey-elizabeth-collins_n_1710467.html

Please, no apologies! I don't know how to make meth either, but. . .

If my computer is ever confiscated, I think I would have a hard 'splaining searches on my hard drive. . . :floorlaugh:

 

[cindersoot]

:banghead:

what!

 

[cindersoot]

Thank you so much for this update Fox! :rocker: I would like to know how most locals feel about the memorial at the park. Would the money not be better used to place cameras around the bike trail and lights and cutting down the trees that obstructed the view of where the girls were abducted? Maybe local LE could drive through that A WHOLE LOT MORE?

I also ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY do not understand: "Dawson said the parks department will have additional maintenance costs, but he said the benefits the city is receiving far outweigh the additional expenses." How does a city benefit from having two little girls being snatched and murdered? Truly, I am not trying to be snarky here, but it almost sounds like Dawson is saying Lyric and Elizabeth's murder was good for the economy of Evansdale. . .

I so agree with you. The money should go to making the bike trail safer.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Great Q, IMHO, perhaps we can get him to come back onbrd to answer it!

Perhaps he's over being doubted.

I believe him, I always have, I don't know why some don't.

There are others involved peripherally whos comments tend to support his statement.

I am thinking here about Mr C who also saw the girls down near the lake at around that time, and Mr Pahl who had the FBI in his shop for days and came away with the idea that the girls got from Point A to Point B in 8 minutes, which we know is easily doable for two little girls in a hurry.

 

[threecrazykids]

Perhaps he's over being doubted.

I believe him, I always have, I don't know why some don't.

There are others involved peripherally whos comments tend to support his statement.

I am thinking here about Mr C who also saw the girls down near the lake at around that time, and Mr Pahl who had the FBI in his shop for days and came away with the idea that the girls got from Point A to Point B in 8 minutes, which we know is easily doable for two little girls in a hurry.

If he saw the girls bikes then the police need to correct their timeline because if I remember correctly, the police timeline has them still on Brovan at 12:23. They didn't reach the lake area until 12:30-1, which was at the FRONT of the lake...not the place the bikes were found.

My question has always been this. Why aren't the police counting his sighting in the timeline? Not only not using the sighting, but flat out denying knowing anything about him. Abben was flat out ASKED about the cyclist and he said he knew nothing about him.

Then again...I believe Abben appeared to be one of the most uninformed people in the entire investigation during his pressers.

Not necessarily because he IS, but because his comments of "I'm unaware of X" (ad nauseum) in every single presser. It's very simple to make yourself sound informed and still not release pertinent information. "I am not able to divulge any information on that subject at this time" would have sounded much more professional when "updating" the public during the pressers of such a horrific event. IMO of course.

TG has been through the ringer in regards to his sighting of the bikes. And according to earlier posts, it was brought to our attention that the police were even notified of how bad he was being treated regarding his sighting.

IF his sighting was valid, it would have been VERY easy for police to include the bikes being at the gate (or on the path) at approx 12:20...STILL there by the jogger at the 2pm and STILL there when found by LE at around 4ish.

Yet they didn't.

 

[Bootsctr]

Maybe...or maybe not...

If you want to look at it in loose terms, I think nearly everyone living in this neck of the woods has meth connections. I have a second cousin who is an addict. So I have meth connections. I've worked with addicts and their children. So I have even more meth connections. My husband is from here. He went to school with lots of people who did meth. Some of them he even considered friends at one time. So he has meth connections. We have a farm and we've found meth-making materials on our property in the past. There's even more meth connections for us. We've had anhydrous ammonia stolen from our farm in the past. There's another meth connection. I could probably keep going.

That said, I still think that roles that Misty & Dan played in the drug world could very well be at the root of this. If Lyric was targeted as some sort of message or retaliation, then the connection isn't quite so loose. I'm very skeptical of this possibility though. I think that the bodies would have been left somewhere else if that were the case. If someone was trying to deliver a message, wouldn't they try to convey it sooner? Why not dump them next to a road, where they would be discovered immediately? Heck, why not dump them right in the middle of the turn-around at 7 bridges? They would have been found within a day or two.

I think they were dumped where they were because the killer wanted them to be found or didn't care if they were found. I think he wanted to buy himself some decomp time though. I think he wanted some evidence to be destroyed. I think this was a crime of sexual nature. If I had to bet money on it, that's what I would bank on.

I really just wish we could get LE or confirm if they have an evidence of sexual assault or not. That would narrow so much down.

BBM. I completely agree. However, point blank, I don't think it would be retaliation against Lyric's father. After reading about the drug stamp tax, In my opinion, the reason he remained free so long is he is/was small time. I don't think he narc'd on anyone of significance if he was making and selling bathtub meth himself. I bet everyone he narc'd was just like him - no money, no property and "without a pot to pee in". The State of Iowa wants to get the drug dealers like Dustin Honken or someone selling enough meth that they are keeping "ledgers!"

Misty on the other hand, now she narc'd on some people pretty high up there in the ranks. Pretty sure she might have po'd people more dangerous than Dan because she did do some time. This, however, is neither here nor there, because, like you, I think this was absolutely a crime of opportunity by a sexual deviant. I think he put the bodies where he did because it was an area he was familiar with and that would buy him decomposition time.

LE has got to be feeling the pressure to make an arrest in this case. :jail: I know we all want it so bad. However, do we not also want the evidence and the motive to match? Having motive handed to us signed, sealed & delivered in a nice neat package with a pretty bow on top and expecting the evidence to match is a totally different story.

Again, Ashley, thank you for your most excellent posts!

 

[SapphireSteel]

If he saw the girls bikes then the police need to correct their timeline because if I remember correctly, the police timeline has them still on Brovan at 12:23. They didn't reach the lake area until 12:30-1, which was at the FRONT of the lake...not the place the bikes were found.

My question has always been this. Why aren't the police counting his sighting in the timeline? Not only not using the sighting, but flat out denying knowing anything about him. Abben was flat out ASKED about the cyclist and he said he knew nothing about him.

Then again...I believe Abben appeared to be one of the most uninformed people in the entire investigation during his pressers.

Not necessarily because he IS, but because his comments of "I'm unaware of X" (ad nauseum) in every single presser. It's very simple to make yourself sound informed and still not release pertinent information. "I am not able to divulge any information on that subject at this time" would have sounded much more professional when "updating" the public during the pressers of such a horrific event. IMO of course.

TG has been through the ringer in regards to his sighting of the bikes. And according to earlier posts, it was brought to our attention that the police were even notified of how bad he was being treated regarding his sighting.

IF his sighting was valid, it would have been VERY easy for police to include the bikes being at the gate at approx 12:20...STILL there by the jogger at the 2pm and STILL there when found by LE at around 4ish.

Yet they didn't.

The BHCSO has the last confirmed official sighting at 12.15.

 

[cindersoot]

Perhaps he's over being doubted.

I believe him, I always have, I don't know why some don't.

There are others involved peripherally whos comments tend to support his statement.

I am thinking here about Mr C who also saw the girls down near the lake at around that time, and Mr Pahl who had the FBI in his shop for days and came away with the idea that the girls got from Point A to Point B in 8 minutes, which we know is easily doable for two little girls in a hurry.

SapphireSteel!!! There you are, I was wondering where you went.

 

[Bootsctr]

Good to see you SapphireSteel!

 

[threecrazykids]

The BHCSO has the last confirmed official sighting at 12.15.

I understand that...BUT, that rules out the video then. The video was 12:11, or 12:19, whichever time you choose.

Who saw them at 12:15?

I think the 12:15 time is the "rough estimate" of the video...not an exact down to the minute time. It's smack dab in the middle of 12:11 and 12:19.

I'm not saying TG did NOT see the bikes...please understand that. My question is he not only claims he saw the bikes, but also has a phone call placing his sighting literally within MINUTES of when he would have seen the bikes across the path.

I want to know why they aren't including it when they DID release a jogger seeing the bikes at 2, and also the bikes being found in the same place at 4.

He didn't say he saw the girls...he said he saw 2 bikes. What is missing from the 12:15 last confirmed sighting and his sighting that eliminates his sighting from being used?

The only thing I can think of, is that they were CONFIRMED to be alive AFTER he passed the bikes which would make his sighting irrelevant.

 

[Bootsctr]

I agree in that the two girls were most likely abducted by a sexual predator and left in the secluded spot where they were found to reduce the possibility that the murders would lead to an arrest ... that is, to delay discovery of the bodies. I doubt that there is any DNA on the bodies or the clothing because, if they were murdered on the afternoon of July 13 (most likely), they would have been completely skeletonized. Five months of exposure to weather would most likely have destroyed any chance of obtaining DNA from the bodies or the clothing ... it's a real long shot, but I doubt it.

Also, is there not some kind of screw-up with fingerprints at a higher level? Some evidence was mistakenly destroyed or lost or something?

 

[SapphireSteel]

So frustrating to be still chewing over the same old cud though.

O/t I've had the month from HELL and lost my cat for 6 weeks, I found her on Friday alive and well and very annoyed.

If you lose your furbaby...don't give up! I found her very late at night when it was quiet, right where I'd last seen her.

Because I'd stuffed letterboxes and knocked on doors, my neighbours had left food and water out for her.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Also, is there not some kind of screw-up with fingerprints at a higher level? Some evidence was mistakenly destroyed or lost or something?

:what:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I understand that...BUT, that rules out the video then. The video was 12:11, or 12:19, whichever time you choose.

Who saw them at 12:15?

I think the 12:15 time is the "rough estimate" of the video...not an exact down to the minute time. It's smack dab in the middle of 12:11 and 12:19.

I'm not saying TG did NOT see the bikes...please understand that. My question is he not only claims he saw the bikes, but also has a phone call placing his sighting literally within MINUTES of when he would have seen the bikes across the path.

I want to know why they aren't including it when they DID release a jogger seeing the bikes at 2, and also the bikes being found in the same place at 4.

He didn't say he saw the girls...he said he saw 2 bikes. What is missing from the 12:15 last confirmed sighting and his sighting that eliminates his sighting from being used?

The only thing I can think of, is that they were CONFIRMED to be alive AFTER he passed the bikes which would make his sighting irrelevant.

There could be a very good reason why LE aren't using TG's sighting.

They could believe it would put him at risk somehow.

It was TG himself who (regretfully, I'm sure) spoke to the media and provided the information we are discussing, ditto Mr C. LE have never actually confirmed either sighting, to my knowledge, and that could be to protect the witnesses. Mr C had clearly been instructed to be vague about the time of his sighting as he was about to say what time it was in the interview I saw, and his wife jumped in and stopped him.

TG signed on here to defend himself then suddenly disappeared, I imagine LE caught wind of it and told him to STOP, for his own good.